Did Vegeta eventualy reach SSJ3?

[dbgtFO]

No, I don't think Vegeta reached Super Saiyan 3 before the manga ended.

[Piccolo Daimao]

You: SSJ3 is achievable only for the dead and fusions. I really don't find sense in this.
Me: It all depends on one's power. Seems like Dragon Ball alright to me.

Wait, what? I never said that last part.

That was my comment.

Oh, OK, then. Well, I still think my theory makes sense. SSj3 is just that difficult.

It didn't even mildly bother him that Goku flew off with Uub instead of fighting him.

Because Goku wasn't staying on Earth for only 24 hours that time.

The old Vegeta would have never accepted being ignored like that, is what I'm saying. If Vegeta entered the tournament to fight Goku, he didn't act like it.

Agreed. Vegeta only entered the tournament because he was curious about the exceptionally strong Earthling Goku wanted to fight. If he really had such a strong desire as before to fight Goku, he would've done it there, or any time outside of tournament boundaries. But all he does is just chuckle to himself that Goku taking off with Oob wasn't about wanting to protect the Earth, and then we get a scene of Goku asking Oob to promise that they'd fight once they finished his training, which lends support to the theory that Goku only wanted to train Oob so he'd have a challenge after having been bored out of his ass for 10 years.

I think he still trained, but it wasn't with the obsessive drive for surpassing Goku that he used to have. It was simply training to better himself and push his limits, like Goku. In this case, he may've trained for SSj3 (out of curiosity or just to have it there, since it wasn't completely useless), but failed.

[hleV]

It didn't even mildly bother him that Goku flew off with Uub instead of fighting him.

Because Goku wasn't staying on Earth for only 24 hours that time.

The old Vegeta would have never accepted being ignored like that, is what I'm saying. If Vegeta entered the tournament to fight Goku, he didn't act like it.

Again, Vegeta didn't need the tournament to fight Goku, so it wasn't too big of a deal to him. I don't know (and nobody does) why he entered the tournament (to test his strength, possibly? Kick some butt?), but he was no longer an asshole to stop Goku from what he's doing and force him to fight.

Oh, OK, then. Well, I still think my theory makes sense. SSj3 is just that difficult.

It makes sense for a transformation to exist which for some reason can only be achieved by being dead (meaning you have to get to remain your body in the afterlife)? And fusion for some reason can achieve it in the living world? You really aren't complicating things when DB tends to avoid that? OK, fine, whatever. I just don't see why would you put such a theory above mine.

Vegeta only entered the tournament because he was curious about the exceptionally strong Earthling Goku had wanted to fight.

If you mean that Vegeta wanted to fight that unknown person himself, then OK, because otherwise he could've gone to spectate the tournament.

If he really had such a strong desire as before to fight Goku, he would've done it there, or any time outside of tournament boundaries.

I don't think it was about fighting Goku (partially, possibly). I'm just saying that Vegeta wouldn't have entered if he didn't believe he could win.

[Michsi]

Again, Vegeta didn't need the tournament to fight Goku, so it wasn't too big of a deal to him. I don't know (and nobody does) why he entered the tournament (to test his strength, possibly? Kick some butt?), but he was no longer an asshole to stop Goku from what he's doing and force him to fight.

Yes, that change of personality is what I meant and I also think that may also be reflected in his training mentality. I agree with Piccolo Daimao, that SSJ3 is extremely difficult to achieve and that I think it's likely that he mellowed out in time and no longer pursues the goal of surpassing Goku. At the very least, not so obsessively in order to push himself to that point.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Oh, OK, then. Well, I still think my theory makes sense. SSj3 is just that difficult.

It makes sense for a transformation to exist which for some reason can only be achieved by being dead (meaning you have to get to remain your body in the afterlife)? And fusion for some reason can achieve it in the living world? You really aren't complicating things when DB tends to avoid that? OK, fine, whatever. I just don't see why would you put such a theory above mine.

Don't act so egotistical and attack my perfectly valid theory by saying that your theory's better than mine. Everyone has their own opinions. Yes, in my eyes, it does make sense for a transformation to exist which can only be achieved by being dead or being a magical Fusion. It's just that a living body can't handle it as well as a dead body. Again, SSj3 really pushes the boundaries. Even Gotenks could only stay in it for a limited amount of time, and we haven't seen that with a SSj stage before (apart from Goku vs. #19, but that was because of his heart virus, and Gohan vs. Cell, but he'd literally used all of his power to destroy Cell in that final blast and had been injured beforehand, left only with the use of one arm).

I suppose, perhaps it's possible for a living mortal Saiyan to achieve SSj3, but it would be helluva difficult and even then, it would still be energy-taxing and especially fatal in a case where you're trying to destroy someone with power almost equal to yours. But I don't believe that Vegeta reached it, because he'd relaxed on his training compared to before. At least, by the end of the manga. Maybe sometime afterwards, or by his final confrontation with Goku in DBO, he'd reached it.

Maybe, if he was the old Vegeta, who trained constantly to the point of almost straining his body to death, he could've reached SSj3. But he's not, so he didn't. Nor does he have a sparring partner in Trunks, who's grown up and having a normal life, in contrast to Goku, who was dead, was in a place where time didn't impact as much and may've sparred with great martial artists from history. Even if no-one matched his strength in the afterlife, sparring is still beneficial. See: SSj Goku vs. Piccolo & Gohan (Cell arc), Gohan vs. Goten, Vegeta vs. Trunks (Boo arc), etc.

[Fox666]

You: SSJ3 is achievable only for the dead and fusions. I really don't find sense in this.
Me: It all depends on one's power. Seems like Dragon Ball alright to me.

I think both you are wrong. First of all, I think anyone can achieve Super Saiyan 3, based on this commentary of Goku:

Goku: “N-no…That’s Fusion, no doubt about it, but…Thi-this is Super Saiyan 3…! Un-unbelievable…Those rotten little brats…They al-already became Super Saiyan 3, and that took me years to finally manage it…Am-amazin’…haha…amazin’…!”

Second, I don't think there really is any minimum power requirement (or at least not one that is too low). It only happened for only very strong people achieve that form.

But I am also under the impression that Gotenks copied the transformation of Goku. Somehow it's easier to achieve the Super Saiyan forms after seeing them, rather than trying on your own.

[hleV]

Don't act so egotistical and attack my perfectly valid theory by saying that your theory's better than mine. Everyone has their own opinions.

Sorry. I just can't see on what basis you're coming up with such a theory. For example, I very well see Vegeta without problem achieving SSJ3 had he happened to have a power of Gotenks. See the idea? Gotenks was strong, so SSJ3 wasn't so hard for him to achieve, unlike for Goku, who was much weaker, and thus he needed years to manage that, even on afterlife conditions.
I realize that there are only 2 SSJ3s and that's not really enough for conclusion, but really, would it really work in such a complicated way in DB, while the simpliest theory that it depends on power is just as much possible, but is more DB-like?

[dbgtFO]

But I am also under the impression that Gotenks copied the transformation of Goku. Somehow it's easier to achieve the Super Saiyan forms after seeing them, rather than trying on your own.

I think the kids had forgotten by that point, hence this statement:

Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P2.6-9, P3.1-3
Context: after they reach Super Saiyan 3 as Gotenks for the first time
Trunks: “Haah…haah…Hey…! We did it!”
Goten: “Y-yeah! Haah, haah…Amazing! To think that there’s something above Super Saiyan…!”

[Fox666]

That doesn't make any sense... they well know the Super Saiyan 2, and Goku was a hero for them for achieving Super Saiyan 3...

[Mystic Gohan]

I changed my opinion on vegeta getting ssj3. He could, but it would take a really long time. I believe any saiyan can get ssj3. It seems to be more of a technique then anything else. Like when goku says he is gonna show gohan how to go ssj3.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku said that someone else besides Goku, Vegeta, Boo, Goten or Trunks could win the tournament.

Yes, if that someone happened to be as strong as Pure Boo. However Oob didn't, so Goku decided to go train him.

Nope, Goku said that Oob couldn't control his power, so Goku would train him to control it so that the two would later have a fight.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Don't act so egotistical and attack my perfectly valid theory by saying that your theory's better than mine. Everyone has their own opinions.

Sorry. I just can't see on what basis you're coming up with such a theory. For example, I very well see Vegeta without problem achieving SSJ3 had he happened to have a power of Gotenks. See the idea? Gotenks was strong, so SSJ3 wasn't so hard for him to achieve, unlike for Goku, who was much weaker, and thus he needed years to manage that, even on afterlife conditions.
I realize that there are only 2 SSJ3s and that's not really enough for conclusion, but really, would it really work in such a complicated way in DB, while the simpliest theory that it depends on power is just as much possible, but is more DB-like?

Read my post again. I said that if Vegeta could've eventually reached it by the time of his final battle with Goku in DBO. Well, this is me basically clarifying it now. I don't think he reached it by the end of the manga, but he did by the time of his final battle with Goku.

Goku said that someone else besides Goku, Vegeta, Boo, Goten or Trunks could win the tournament.

Yes, if that someone happened to be as strong as Pure Boo. However Oob didn't, so Goku decided to go train him.

Nope, Goku said that Oob couldn't control his power, so Goku would train him to control it so that the two would later have a fight.

Goku meant that Oob couldn't control his power in the way that he couldn't use all of his hidden power yet, as he hadn't unlocked it. Like what Piccolo told Gohan in the Saiyan arc.

[Saiga]

But Vegeta did have Trunks as a sparring partner. He forced him to train just like Goku forced Goten to train.

[dprez]

The way the second ending shows Vegeta vowing to fight Goku again, and my belief that Vegeta trained to reach ssj3 anyway within those ten years, I think he was definitely able to reach ssj3.

[MasterVampire]

Maybe if Goku had of explained to Vegeta like he did the boys on how to get SSJ3 that would of helped.

[Michsi]

But Vegeta did have Trunks as a sparring partner. He forced him to train just like Goku forced Goten to train.

Doesn't mean they (Goku and Vegeta) benefited themselves from it. It seemed more like them wanting their sons to stay in shape and from the looks of it, Goku only did it because he wanted to have Goten enter the tournament. So it wasn't even a something they did regularly. I'm seriously doubting Trunks and Vegeta did. The whole point of that scene was to show how little the new generation cared about that life style.

[Saiga]

But Vegeta did have Trunks as a sparring partner. He forced him to train just like Goku forced Goten to train.

Doesn't mean they (Goku and Vegeta) benefited themselves from it. It seemed more like them wanting their sons to stay in shape and from the looks of it, Goku only did it because he wanted to have Goten enter the tournament. So it wasn't even a something they did regularly. I'm seriously doubting Trunks and Vegeta did. The whole point of that scene was to show how little the new generation cared about that life style.

I was responding to Piccolo Daimao here:

Nor does he have a sparring partner in Trunks, who's grown up and having a normal life, in contrast to Goku, who was dead, was in a place where time didn't impact as much and may've sparred with great martial artists from history. Even if no-one matched his strength in the afterlife, sparring is still beneficial. See: SSj Goku vs. Piccolo & Gohan (Cell arc), Gohan vs. Goten, Vegeta vs. Trunks (Boo arc), etc.

[Michsi]

Did I missunderstand that what Piccolo Daimao meant was that Vegeta did not have a sparring partner in Trunks in the years after the defeat of Buu? Because that's what I got from the original post.

You claimed that he did and I responded that he didn't.

[Saiga]

Did I missunderstand that what Piccolo Daimao meant was that Vegeta did not have a sparring partner in Trunks in the years after the defeat of Buu? Because that's what I got from the original post.

You claimed that he did and I responded that he didn't.

You didn't misunderstand, Daimao said he didn't have a sparring partner in Trunks after Boo's defeat, and I was responding that Goku and Vegeta continued to force their children to train/participate in the tournament.

[Michsi]

You didn't misunderstand, Daimao said he didn't have a sparring partner in Trunks after Boo's defeat, and I was responding that Goku and Vegeta continued to force their children to train/participate in the tournament.

Yes and in relation to the topic, I said that Vegeta didn't have a sparring partner in Trunks that would offer any real benefits for him. In fact, we only see him tell Trunks to enter the tournament. If he ended up training with him is left unclear BUT I doubt they train regularly considering the implications of that scene. So no, Trunks isn't what I'd consider a helping factor for Vegeta to obtain SSJ3.