Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by Adamant » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:14 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote: Although the Japanese don't really have gender pronouns.
They do. They're just not used all that often.

But yeah, Puer talks in a masculine manner, and Toriyama has mentioned he always considered him male.
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:'Occurring, found, or done often; prevalent.'

That's what common means, bro.
Occurring, found, or done often; prevalent where? That's the question.
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:Also, 'Krillin' is probably the most popular romanization of Kuririn.
Nonsense. It's a romanization that was largely born from Funimation's English dub, for the most part only appeared in it and its spinoff products, and is almost exclusively used by people who just went with what these products told them, these people being almost entirely native English-speakers living in countries where these products were the de facto releases.
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:33 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:Sorry to interrupt the heated debate of the proper/common spelling of the chestnut-headed monk, but this thread seems to the appropriate place to ask: does anyone have the image of Pu'ar that has him labeled by the spelling "Pool"?
Isn't Pu'er genderless?
In Kanzentai's translation of the Daizenshuu, he's referred to with male pronouns. Although the Japanese don't really have gender pronouns. I'll leave this question for someone more experienced on the subject.
In the Q/A in the back of the volumes, Toriyama said that he thought the character was male, and Pu'ar often refers to himself with one of the masculine forms of "I." EDIT: And I don't know why I said that when Adamant beat me to the punch. =P

RE sanorin: Thanks for finding the pic for me. You know, I honestly can't remember what they spelled his name on in the spacesuit anymore. But I found the image I was looking for. It was a thread that Piccolo Daimao started back in March, and it actually referred to him as "Pooal." I guess I was thinking of Curtis Hoffman's summaries. They referred to him as "Pool."
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by masterotaku » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:33 am

The names I use: Kakarotto, Son Goku (sometimes with "h" at the end), Bulma, Krilin, Freezer, Vegeta, Super Saiyajin, etc.
By the way, I have the spanish version of the manga (the 34 kanzenban).

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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:22 pm

Adamant wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote: Although the Japanese don't really have gender pronouns.
They do. They're just not used all that often.
OK then.
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by UnbiasedDBZfan » Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:46 pm

Adamant wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote: Although the Japanese don't really have gender pronouns.
They do. They're just not used all that often.

But yeah, Puer talks in a masculine manner, and Toriyama has mentioned he always considered him male.
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:'Occurring, found, or done often; prevalent.'

That's what common means, bro.
Occurring, found, or done often; prevalent where? That's the question.
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:Also, 'Krillin' is probably the most popular romanization of Kuririn.
Nonsense. It's a romanization that was largely born from Funimation's English dub, for the most part only appeared in it and its spinoff products, and is almost exclusively used by people who just went with what these products told them, these people being almost entirely native English-speakers living in countries where these products were the de facto releases.
Do you have any idea of the population that has the name 'Krillin'? I don't know exact figures but this is from my research.
USA 315,000,000
UK 61,000,000
Canada 32,000,000
Australia 15-20million
New Zealand 4,400,000

Let's say a quarter of each countries population watched the dub(s) of Dragon Ball in each of those countries
That's at least 106,850,000 people familiar with the name 'Krillin.' One may argue the Indian/Chinese dub names of Kuririn are more popular by my logic, but those countries are very poor and only a few million people would have access to DBZ.

Also
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en
Type 'Krillin' of the English side and see what the Japanese side says. One may think, that GT is BS, but it's good for SINGLE words, not sentences!!
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by dbboxkaifan » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:40 pm

UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:'Occurring, found, or done often; prevalent.'

That's what common means, bro.
1) Don't call me bro, I don't know you from anywhere nor am I your "internet friend".
2) Common can also and is considered general, normal, usual.

Adamant, if you can pick a number of people/fans in the whole worldwide who use the name "Klilyn", then please prove.

Most known in the world: Krillin (Krillin / Krilim / Krilling / Krill-en / etc) > Kuririn (Kulilin) > Klilyn (?)
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by AgitoZ » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:50 pm

UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:Do you have any idea of the population that has the name 'Krillin'? I don't know exact figures but this is from my research.
USA 315,000,000
UK 61,000,000
Canada 32,000,000
Australia 15-20million
New Zealand 4,400,000

Let's say a quarter of each countries population watched the dub(s) of Dragon Ball in each of those countries
That's at least 106,850,000 people familiar with the name 'Krillin.' One may argue the Indian/Chinese dub names of Kuririn are more popular by my logic, but those countries are very poor and only a few million people would have access to DBZ.
Lookie, more poorly thought out arguments. By that logic you just proved why Krillin isn't the most common. You do realize the countries and populations that didn't get FUNi's dub easily outnumber those that did?
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:Also
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en
Type 'Krillin' of the English side and see what the Japanese side says. One may think, that GT is BS, but it's good for SINGLE words, not sentences!!
Okay...

I wrote in Kuririn and got the same result. What's your point?
dbboxkaifan wrote:Adamant, if you can pick a number of people/fans in the whole worldwide who use the name "Klilyn", then please prove.
Can you prove why Krillin is the most popular? As I mentioned before there are more countries out there that didn't use that adaptation.

Also,
dbboxkaifan wrote:Most known in the world: Krillin (Krillin / Krilim / Krilling / Kuririn etc) > Kuririn (Kulilin) > Klilyn (?)
Whaaa----

Seriously, where are you both getting these numbers?
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by Fox666 » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:09 pm

I wouldn't call Krillin a "romanization" since it is not a direct translation, but rather a new written name that is easier for English-speakers pronounce.

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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by Adamant » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:15 pm

UnbiasedDBZfan wrote: Let's say a quarter of each countries population watched the dub(s) of Dragon Ball in each of those countries
That's at least 106,850,000 people familiar with the name 'Krillin.' One may argue the Indian/Chinese dub names of Kuririn are more popular by my logic, but those countries are very poor and only a few million people would have access to DBZ.
I haven't the slightest idea what you're going off onto this tangent for in the first place, and I'm not all that sure why I'm bothering to reply, since you seem to be largely looking for an excuse to argue.

The actual question, as asked, was about the common romanization of Kuririn's name. You keep screaming about the most "common" romanization being "Krillin", refusing to explain what you mean by "common", opting to toss back dictionary definitions instead.
Thing is... those hundred million people of yours aren't romanizing the name. They're going by what Funimation and friends told them the character's name was. Is "Krillin" technically accurate-ish? Sure, whatever. Do most of these people know, or care? For the most part, no - most of them would've called him Bob if Funi had named him that. So does that make it "the most common romanization" then?
UnbiasedDBZfan wrote:Also
http://translate.google.com/?hl=en
Type 'Krillin' of the English side and see what the Japanese side says. One may think, that GT is BS, but it's good for SINGLE words, not sentences!!
Google Translate goes by what people tell Google Translate what this and that word/phrase means. All that means is that someone has been tossing a dub name into the suggestion box often enough.
dbboxkaifan wrote: Adamant, if you can pick a number of people/fans in the whole worldwide who use the name "Klilyn", then please prove.
As I already said, I was referring to Japanese merchandise.
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by Puto » Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:24 pm

Spanish DVD subtitles use Klilyn too.
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by masterotaku » Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:48 pm

Puto wrote:Spanish DVD subtitles use Klilyn too.
LOL, I have the movies but I didn't notice :lol: .
In the spanish kanzenban, there is a typo repeated through several chapters: "Kilo-ho" instead of "Kiko-ho". I almost wanted to use a black pen to correct that :evil: .

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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by Kuririn Of Orin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:06 am

masterotaku wrote:The names I use: Kakarotto, Son Goku (sometimes with "h" at the end), Bulma, Krilin, Freezer, Vegeta, Super Saiyajin, etc.
By the way, I have the spanish version of the manga (the 34 kanzenban).

PS: new to the forum, nice to meet you all :D .
Hmm... wouldn't it make more sense to say Saiya People instead of leaving it untranslated? Saiya is an exception though because it's kinda mandatory, because saiya is yasai jumbled up and yasai means vegetables. Unless you say Tablesvegeta People which sounds... Myeh. But Jin should definitely be translated as people instead of leaving it untranslated by saying Saiya-Jin.
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by AgitoZ » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:59 pm

Kuririn Of Orin wrote:Hmm... wouldn't it make more sense to say Saiya People instead of leaving it untranslated?
...Why? If you're gonna translate the -jin part try to make it into something not so literal (i.e. not stupid). Might as well start calling "Namekians" people of Namek.
Kuririn Of Orin wrote:Saiya is an exception though because it's kinda mandatory, because saiya is yasai jumbled up and yasai means vegetables.
It's an exception cause it's not a real word. Saiya doesn't actually mean anything, making it kinda difficult to translate.
Kuririn Of Orin wrote:But Jin should definitely be translated as people instead of leaving it untranslated by saying Saiya-Jin.
No it shouldn't. Saiyan is perfectly acceptable translation.

Besides this all about the Spanish version, which you know, works a bit more differently than English.
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by masterotaku » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:48 pm

In the first edition of the manga in Spain (it was released in the late 90s), they used the word Saiyajin, but in the kanzenban version they say Saiyano (the strong syllable is "ya", so it makes it sound different). But I prefer the original name :lol:.
On the other hand, Namekkuseijin is too long for me.
Now that we are talking about pronounciation, I noticed that the spanish pronounciation is very similar to the japanese. The exceptions are the "h", "j", "ge" and "gi".

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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by Kuririn Of Orin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:08 pm

AgitoZ wrote: Saiyan is perfectly acceptable translation.
Yes it is, but not Saiya-Jin. Why leave something untranslated like that, its ridiculous. Jin=people.
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by AgitoZ » Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:15 pm

Kuririn Of Orin wrote:Yes it is, but not Saiya-Jin. Why leave something untranslated like that, its ridiculous. Jin=people.
It's better than "Saiya People". If you're complaining about that get ready to complain about a whole lot of other things.

Besides, it was "fixed" in the release of the Kanzenban.
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by masterotaku » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:34 am

Kuririn Of Orin wrote:
AgitoZ wrote: Saiyan is perfectly acceptable translation.
Yes it is, but not Saiya-Jin. Why leave something untranslated like that, its ridiculous. Jin=people.
Well, then we must start saying Turtle Wave, King of the World, Super Tablevege-people, etc :mrgreen: .
There are lots of terms that sound better if they are left untranslated (especially techniques and important names).

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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by Kuririn Of Orin » Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:49 am

masterotaku wrote:
Well, then we must start saying Turtle Wave, King of the World, Super Tablevege-people, etc :mrgreen: .
There are lots of terms that sound better if they are left untranslated (especially techniques and important names).
Well it just seems so nerdy and, very silly to leave them untranslated, even if they do sound cooler. It's like saying: "Ohio how are you going" or "Hmm, nani are you talking about". It just seems wrong to leave them untranslated, plus it's akward when you try to get a friend to read.... Just because it sounds better seems like an excuse to speak a bit of Japanese to me....

Sorry if this offends anybody. u.u
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:01 am

Kuririn Of Orin wrote:Well it just seems so nerdy and, very silly to leave them untranslated, even if they do sound cooler when left untranslated. It's like saying: "Ohio how are you going" or "Hmm, nani are you talking about". It just seems wrong to leave them untranslated, plus it's akward when you try to get a friend to read.... Just because it sounds better seems like an excuse to speak a bit of Japanese to me....
You do realize where it is on the Internet you're having this conversation, right...? :)

No-one here is saying that everyday words should be left untranslated. We're, for the most part, talking exclusively about proper nouns.

I don't "translate" my name into the local vernacular when I speak to someone in a totally different language, and I wouldn't do the same with the names of folks in DBZ (particularly "Son Goku", which is just the Japanese reading of "Sun Wukong" itself instead of translating it from Chinese, which itself has a perfectly valid meaning of "aware/awake to vacuity" as given to the character by his first real master).

Things like サイヤ人 are great examples for going either which way, leaning toward "translating" the aspects that are NOT a proper noun, and leaving as-is the aspects that are. In this case, "Saiya" is the name of the race (and is not a proper Japanese word; it's an invented term that happens to be a pun on a Japanese word), so it should probably be left as-is. The "jin" suffix is just the word/term/phrase for "person" or "people", and in English, we adapt that onto the names of races or nationalities usually by adding an "n" to the end (I live in "America" so I'm an "American"; I live in "New Jersey", so I'm a "New Jerseyan").

Is there an argument for ADAPTING the name "Saiya" instead of leaving it? Sure. You'd come up with something creative like "Veggians". Do you want to go that route, though? That's what Viz started doing in their manga adaptation, particularly toward the end of the series (changing entire names to what they felt suited the pun better, like "Pui-Pui" turning into "Pocus").

If you want to say that Mr. Aware to Vacuity, a member of the Veggians, used the Turtle Hame Wave against a car in his past before fighting another member of the Veggians, Veggie himself, and then he later fought a five-man team called the Melkian Troupe and there was concern about the two of them switching bodies with Melk himself... and onward from there... well, be my guest, but no-one's going to know what the Hell you're talking about.
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Re: Opinions on Toriyama-Written Names?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:16 am

The foreignness of the words is what separates them from sounding fairly ridiculousness to me IMHO. It's not that I want to speak Japanese, I just don't want them to be English in our adaptation. lol That may sound weird because I know Dragon Ball was a series aimed at children, but is seems a little too childish to have the characters running around and yelling such dumb sounding names for character, titles or attacks while the fate of the universe is at stake. "Kaioshin" is infinitely better and more mysterious than if they had called him "God of the Wolrd Kings", and "Makankosappo" sounds more intimidating than something akin to Demon Piercing Light Killing Cannon. I laugh at that last one more than I do "Special Beam Cannon"...though that is mainly because of Lord Slug Abridged, which made me "appreciate" the dub term...
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