Dragon Ball Zee vs Dragon Ball Zed

[RazorX]

The correct pronunciation for the letter Z is Zed.

Having said that, I treat the Z in Dragon Ball Z as a word instead of a letter. That word being Zeee. So I pronounce it Dragon Ball Zeee because that is how Ocean pronounces it in English and, as I mentioned, because I treat the letter Z in DBZ as a word ever since I heard it, which enabled me to pronounce it as Zeee without it seeming too off.

And; I find it works better for me if I think of DBZ with the Z as a word instead of a letter (maybe due to all these years of conditioning myself with that view,) because a single letter would feel too random (why not Dragon Ball K instead of Dragon Ball Z, or "insert letter here" instead of Z. I'm aware of the reasons for the letter Z but the title feels more "complete" if the third syllable is treated as a word instead of a letter.) This doesn't apply to Dragon Ball GT because that has two letters.

I pronounce words which have the letter Z as Zed though.

However, I'm aware that other languages (Japanese, Spanish etc) pronounce the Z as Zed in their own way.

One thing though; sometimes if I'm purchasing or querying about DBZ products, I would pronounce it as Dragon Ball Zed to help the sales staff who, if I pronounce it as Dragon Ball Zeee, might not know what I mean.

[Perfect]

The correct pronunciation for the letter Z is Zed.

Not in American English.

[RazorX]

The correct pronunciation for the letter Z is Zed.

Not in American English.

It's pronounced differently in American English. British English pronounces it as Zed and from my findings, the other languages pronounce it as Zed in their own offshoots of the letter (e.g Zetto in Japanese)

Aside from US and Canada, I haven't heard Z pronounced as "Zeee"

[Perfect]

That doesn't make it "correct" by any means. It's just a different dialect, it's only correct based upon the region of the language(s).

[RazorX]

There may be an English speaking region which pronounces Z as Zoa, to them that would be the correct pronunciation.

What you grew up with would seem correct to you. But, if you want to find the actual correct pronunciation, go to the source, or what is closest to the source. And that is British English.

I had a debate with TripleRach which was loosely related to this subject which ended with my post below this. (Can't post the actual link because it doesn't work, but it's my post directly below the post this links to.)

However, I seemed to have ruffled a few feathers (or at least one person's feathers) during that debate so I'll give an example which shows I don't wildly post around saying everything the British do is the correct way.

In England, curry as a dish (which originated from Pakistan/India/Bangladesh) is popular and has evolved over the years, to the point where some people would say it's a British dish. But, the "proper" way to make "curry" would be the way the Pakistanis/Indians/Bangladeshis make it and not the "evolved" way some British people make it. (OK it's not as based on fact as the British English debate but it's a current example I thought of which does happen)

[Perfect]

By your logic we should be speaking in old English with a western Germanic accent. American English is a different dialect than Britain's English Zed is no more correct than Zee. If we're to speak by source we'd probably be calling it by Zeta or whatever else early letter.

You have to remember that American English isn't some backwater accent that people have. It's another "form" of English. The closest thing to the source would be early western Germanic English if not Latin or some other relating language. You don't see the British or Americans pronouncing foreign incorporated words "correct" from their origins, do you? Generally no, because in English they're pronounced differently.

[RazorX]

West Germanic English would be the source. You'll notice I said source or closest to the source. The old English is no longer used in the country of origin entirely in the form that it originated in however the country of origin's pronunciations, that is England's English pronunciations, is the closest to the source. English spreading to other regions can have multiple pronunciations and they could seem correct to to the people who grew up with them, so you can end up with "alleged multiple correct pronunciations" but if you want to be technically correct; it's British English.

[Perfect]

Which is why I said the source or what is closest to the source.

Aside from the fact that we have the source, which is a western Germanic old English language. American English is a form of English as British English, neither is "more correct". Unless you're referring to dialects in both countries, in which neither form is a dialect in that context.

Edit:

....

Ahuh?

[RazorX]

Which is why I said the source or what is closest to the source.

Aside from the fact that we have the source, which is a western Germanic old English language. American English is a form of English as British English, neither is "more correct". Unless you're referring to dialects in both countries, in which neither form is a dialect in that context.

Edit:

....

Ahuh?

I edited my post to reflect the edits you made to your post. Read the revised post.

It is absurd to suggest that American English is as correct to the original English as British English.

American accents came hundreds of years after English was formed and used. To use stages as a basic illustration. Original English is stage 1, current British English is stage 2, New Zealand English is stage 3, Australian English is stage 4, Canadian English is stage 5, American English is stage 6.

I outlined the stages to reflect which accents are closest to British English.

Stage 6 is not as close as stage 2.

Australian and NZ accents are closer to British accents than US/Canadian accents.

[Perfect]

West Germanic English would be the source. You'll notice I said source or closest to the source. The old English is no longer used in the country of origin entirely in the form that it originated in however the country of origin's pronunciations, that is England's English pronunciations, is the closest to the source. English spreading to other regions can have multiple pronunciations and they could seem correct to to the people who grew up with them, so you can end up with "multiple correct" but if you want to be technically correct; it's British English.

The English language has taken words from other languages (sparingly) to use, notably from French. The correct pronunciation of those particular words would be from the country they originated from.

It doesn't matter if it's closest, it's still not pronounced the same. Because old English being "dead" from its country of origin is entirely irrelevant, it's the origin and the language can still reflect off that by your logic. Nothing and I mean nothing, dictates "British English" as being anymore correct because it's near the origin. The fact is, it isn't the origin, nor will it ever be. Correct is based upon the form of English that's evolved in a society. You can also end up with multiple correct pronunciations because there's quite clearly, more than one way to say it. British as I've said is not the origin of English and therefore is not the official source of English. American English is to British English as British English is to Old English.

It'd only be correct if you were speaking French. If You're in America and happen to try and speak English and use a borrowed French word that's been incorporated into the English language, then the American English way would be the correct pronunciation. It's not just a French word anymore, it's a borrowed French word that's had its pronunciation changed. Just like American English and British English have changed their pronunciations from their predecessors.

It is absurd to suggest that American English is as correct to the original English as British English.

American accents came hundreds of years after English was formed and used. To use stages as a basic illustration. Original English is stage 1, current British English is stage 2, Australian English is stage 3, New Zealand English is stage 4, Canadian English is stage 5, American English is stage 6.

I outlined the stages to reflect which accents are closest to British English.

Stage 6 is not as close as stage 2.

Australian and NZ accents are closer to British accents than US/Canadian accents.

Old English came hundreds of years before British English, how absurd to suggest British English is the correct way to speak. Stage two is not stage one, therefore is not the source and not the "correct way" to pronounce things. If you're speaking American English, then the correct way to pronounce things is the way American English has laid them out, as for any other form of English in the world that's designated to its own country. You clearly have no idea at all what you're talking about seeing that stage 1 isn't some language that we lost the rules, structure or alphabetic to. It exists in its entirety, one could learn it and speak it fluently, if I were to do so, I'd be speaking "correctly" by your logic, which in turn contradicts your own logic that British English would be the correct way seeing that its "stage two", but guess what, "stage one is more correct than stage two". There's literally no consistently drawn logic that makes sense in what you're saying.

American English is a different form of English with different dialects inside of it and that's how it should be treated. British English will never be Old English, it may be closer, but Old English still and always will exist and therefore predates British English in "correctness". Fact is, they're three separate forms of English and therefore they're each correct in their own pronunciations (interwoven dialects aside).

Edit:
And if by some reason you were at any point going to bring up the number of English speakers, the most reside in America. English has evolved in different countries, including its country of origin, thus making the form indigenous to that area. In its country of origin it's undergone more than several changes through its evolution with other dialects thus influencing it and taking it further from its original way spoken. Since the original source exists, not that it matters, by your logic as I've said, is the closest source. Over 300 million American English speakers pronounce things based on their interwoven dialect from American English, which is of course a different form of English as British English is. There's absolutely no reason for people that speak American English to pronounce Z as Zed. It isn't anymore correct than pronouncing it Zayin, Zeta or however the hell it was in old Latin. If we're not to pronounce English letters or words based on form, then we shouldn't pronounce any form of English from an English perspective, but a Latin/older language perspective. If we're not supposed to pronounce it on its form and its origin, than both Zed and Zee are incorrect as it has been aforementioned. Seriously, think of all the flaws in what you're conveying. Phonetically it's completely based on the region of dialect, and thus "Zee" is no more correct than "Zed".

[TripleRach]

I don't plan on getting directly involved in this discussion, because I'd probably just be repeating things I said in that other thread.

But regarding the letter Z specifically, it's part of the Latin alphabet, which is not unique to English, and actually predates the very existence of the English language, IIRC. And Z ultimately has origins in the Greek alphabet, which is even older. So I don't really understand the need to argue about which English name for it is more correct, because you could just as well argue about the German vs French names.

[Perfect]

I kinda said something similar in my post, being that Z has older forms and by the logic presented, British English would be no more "correct" than American English. I don't see what's so hard with accepting that British English is just as correct as American English/any other form in whatever country.

[dario03]

I have to agree with Perfect. Language is ever evolving and you can't just randomly decide where the cut off for "correct" pronuciation is. Z wasn't invented by British English and really the exact details and origins of words, letters, and languages isn't something that is 100% known anyways (how do we know if Z was always Zed in that area?). Personally I would view the most modern socially accepted version of a word or letter to be correct because like I said language evolves. Thing is socially acceppted is going to depend on where you are so you can easily get multiple correct ways.

[Kuririn Of Orin]

I'm Australian and we say zed, but when it comes to DragonBall I say ZEEEEEEEEE!

[thedarkuniter]

I pronounce it Zee.

@thedarkuniter Your thread got a mention on the podcast.

Really..wow, that's awesome! What podcast number is it?

[dbboxkaifan]

Nobody here in England pronounced it "Dragonball Zed" besides ignorant parents. Even though Zed is more common here in UK the show was always referred to as "Zee" by anyone who watched it.

Those parents were going by the logic of how it's said.

Z = Zed

Thank you captain obvious.

Thank you for the title, but no blasphemy was needed at all. If anyone's what you said, it's you then.

[OutlawTorn]

Aside from US and Canada, I haven't heard Z pronounced as "Zeee"

Canada pronounces Z as "zed." Outside of names or titles which specifically use the "zee" pronunciation, I never use "zee" for Z. In fact, DBZ has been referred to as "Dragon Ball Zed" on Canadian TV in the past.

That doesn't make it "correct" by any means. It's just a different dialect, it's only correct based upon the region of the language(s).

Considering the English language originated in England, "zed" is the proper English pronunciation of the letter. British English has existed far longer than American English.

[Perfect]

Aside from US and Canada, I haven't heard Z pronounced as "Zeee"

Canada pronounces Z as "zed." Outside of names or titles which specifically use the "zee" pronunciation, I never use "zee" for Z. In fact, DBZ has been referred to as "Dragon Ball Zed" on Canadian TV in the past.

That doesn't make it "correct" by any means. It's just a different dialect, it's only correct based upon the region of the language(s).

Considering the English language originated in England, "zed" is the proper English pronunciation of the letter. British English has existed far longer than American English.

Because ignoring an argument where that's been deemed as no more correct than any other usage is totally getting us anywhere. Country of origin /=/ correct /=/ original usage /=/ original pronunciation of the letter Z. By this logic seeing that Old English and Greek have existed longer, neither are "correct". It's incredibly flawed logic.

[OutlawTorn]

By this logic seeing that Old English and Greek have existed longer, neither are "correct".

What the hell does Greek have to do with what is the "correct" pronunciation of a letter in English? "Zed" may be derived from "zeta" but it's about as valid a comparison as whether the pronunciation of the state of Texas is correct considering it was originally Spanish.

[Perfect]

By this logic seeing that Old English and Greek have existed longer, neither are "correct".

What the hell does Greek have to do with what is the "correct" pronunciation of a letter in English? "Zed" may be derived from "zeta" but it's about as valid a comparison as whether the pronunciation of the state of Texas is correct considering it was originally Spanish.

Z is taken from Zeta and therefore by your logic means we should pronounce it as said. Old English and Greek still exists thus therefore ruling out "British English" as correct. Don't you see how retarded and twisted that logic is? British English is no more correct than any other form that's derived from cultures over the years, because it too is a deviation.