Dragon Ball Zee vs Dragon Ball Zed

[paperbowser]

By this logic seeing that Old English and Greek have existed longer, neither are "correct".

What the hell does Greek have to do with what is the "correct" pronunciation of a letter in English? "Zed" may be derived from "zeta" but it's about as valid a comparison as whether the pronunciation of the state of Texas is correct considering it was originally Spanish.

I see no logic in your argument.

[RazorX]

It doesn't matter if it's closest, it's still not pronounced the same. Because old English being "dead" from its country of origin is entirely irrelevant, it's the origin and the language can still reflect off that by your logic. Nothing and I mean nothing, dictates "British English" as being anymore correct because it's near the origin. The fact is, it isn't the origin, nor will it ever be. Correct is based upon the form of English that's evolved in a society. You can also end up with multiple correct pronunciations because there's quite clearly, more than one way to say it. British as I've said is not the origin of English and therefore is not the official source of English.

I don't think you understand what old English is. They pronounced most words the same as current British English but phrased them a bit differently.

American English is to British English as British English is to Old English.

It definitely is not. American English is a deviation of British English which came about centuries after the English had refined their language.

It'd only be correct if you were speaking French. If You're in America and happen to try and speak English and use a borrowed French word that's been incorporated into the English language, then the American English way would be the correct pronunciation. It's not just a French word anymore, it's a borrowed French word that's had its pronunciation changed. Just like American English and British English have changed their pronunciations from their predecessors.

I think your ego is severely clouding your judgement. The correct way to pronounce a borrowed French word would be the way it is pronounced in French, not the way it would be pronounced in the US.

Old English came hundreds of years before British English, how absurd to suggest British English is the correct way to speak. Stage two is not stage one, therefore is not the source and not the "correct way" to pronounce things. If you're speaking American English, then the correct way to pronounce things is the way American English has laid them out, as for any other form of English in the world that's designated to its own country. You clearly have no idea at all what you're talking about seeing that stage 1 isn't some language that we lost the rules, structure or alphabetic to. It exists in its entirety, one could learn it and speak it fluently, if I were to do so, I'd be speaking "correctly" by your logic, which in turn contradicts your own logic that British English would be the correct way seeing that its "stage two", but guess what, "stage one is more correct than stage two". There's literally no consistently drawn logic that makes sense in what you're saying.

Clearly you don't understand the phrase "the source or closest to the source" Most of the words in Old English were pronounced as they are now but the way they were phrased was the bigger difference.

American English is a different form of English with different dialects inside of it and that's how it should be treated. British English will never be Old English, it may be closer, but Old English still and always will exist and therefore predates British English in "correctness". Fact is, they're three separate forms of English and therefore they're each correct in their own pronunciations (interwoven dialects aside).

Even if we go by Old English, the pronunciation for Z is Zed. Happy?

Edit:
And if by some reason you were at any point going to bring up the number of English speakers, the most reside in America. English has evolved in different countries, including its country of origin, thus making the form indigenous to that area. In its country of origin it's undergone more than several changes through its evolution with other dialects thus influencing it and taking it further from its original way spoken. Since the original source exists, not that it matters, by your logic as I've said, is the closest source. Over 300 million American English speakers pronounce things based on their interwoven dialect from American English, which is of course a different form of English as British English is. There's absolutely no reason for people that speak American English to pronounce Z as Zed. It isn't anymore correct than pronouncing it Zayin, Zeta or however the hell it was in old Latin. If we're not to pronounce English letters or words based on form, then we shouldn't pronounce any form of English from an English perspective, but a Latin/older language perspective. If we're not supposed to pronounce it on its form and its origin, than both Zed and Zee are incorrect as it has been aforementioned. Seriously, think of all the flaws in what you're conveying. Phonetically it's completely based on the region of dialect, and thus "Zee" is no more correct than "Zed".

You're using a logical fallacy. We can argue which country has the most English speakers but just because one country has more speakers/population than another doesn't make it correct to use whatever pronunciation they use. Most people used to believe the Earth was flat, obviously most people at that time that believed that were wrong. Argumentum ad populum.

When you go into an exam, you answer the question that you are asked, not what you want to answer.

If you don't understand that example, I'll give you one related to DBZ.

It has been said many times that the pronunciation of the word Saiyan in the English dubs is incorrect, compared to how it is originally pronounced in Japan. The correct pronunciation is Sigh-an, not Say-an. Why is Sigh-an the correct pronunciation? Because that is how it is pronounced in the original version.

If the word "Saiyan" was to be incorporated into the English language, the correct pronunciation would be "Sigh-an" not "Say-an."

But regarding the letter Z specifically, it's part of the Latin alphabet, which is not unique to English, and actually predates the very existence of the English language, IIRC. And Z ultimately has origins in the Greek alphabet, which is even older. So I don't really understand the need to argue about which English name for it is more correct, because you could just as well argue about the German vs French names.

However the letter is not the same as the Greek letter. Z not Zeta.

Z is taken from Zeta and therefore by your logic means we should pronounce it as said.

Z is not the same as Zeta. We didn't take Zeta as the final letter of our alphabet, we took Z.

Most countries pronounce Z as Zed in their own variation (e.g Japanese Zetto). Also, it seems that I was mistaken when I suggested that Canada pronounces Z as Zeee. Canada pronounces Z as Zed. At this point, to suggest that the pronunciation of Zeee for Z is as correct as Zed is laughable.

Zed is the correct pronunciation.

I see no logic in your argument.

I see the logic in his argument.

[paperbowser]

I don't see how considering there's no presentable basis. British English isn't anymore accurate than any other form of English. He's an egotistical dimwit and it shows. Nothing is correct based on his logic, and proposing a fallacy proves how dimwitted he is.

[Perfect]

I don't think you understand what old English is. They pronounced most words the same as current British English but phrased them a bit differently.

Most does not equal all, therefore shattering your point.

It definitely is not. American English is a deviation of British English which came about centuries after the English had refined their language.

Wrong again, British English is a deviation as well.

I think your ego is severely clouding your judgement. The correct way to pronounce a borrowed French word would be the way it is pronounced in French, not the way it would be pronounced in the US.

Z is a borrowed letter and therefore should be pronounced Zeta. We pronounce borrowed words as we twisted them to work in English, as opposed to French words in French.

Clearly you don't understand the phrase "the source or closest to the source" Most of the words in Old English were pronounced as they are now but the way they were phrased was the bigger difference.

We have the source and therefore the source > closest to the source.

You're using a logical fallacy. We can argue which country has the most English speakers but just because one country has more speakers/population than another doesn't make it correct to use whatever pronunciation they use. Most people used to believe the Earth was flat, obviously most people at that time that believed that were wrong. Argumentum ad populum.

When you go into an exam, you answer the question that you are asked, not what you want to answer.

If you don't understand that example, I'll give you one related to DBZ.

It has been said many times that the pronunciation of the word Saiyan in the English dubs is incorrect, compared to how it is originally pronounced in Japan. The correct pronunciation is Sigh-an, not Say-an. Why is Sigh-an the correct pronunciation? Because that is how it is pronounced in the original version.

If the word "Saiyan" was to be incorporated into the English language, the correct pronunciation would be "Sigh-an" not "Say-an."

No this isn't a fallacy. I was merely bringing up the point of population simply speaking in case you did, which I bluntly stated. Nice English comprehension skills.

However the letter is not the same as the Greek letter. Z not Zeta.

Z derives from Zeta, so you're wrong, again.

Z is not the same as Zeta. We didn't take Zeta as the final letter of our alphabet, we took Z.

Most countries pronounce Z as Zed in their own variation (e.g Japanese Zetto). Also, it seems that I was mistaken when I suggested that Canada pronounces Z as Zeee. Canada pronounces Z as Zed. At this point, to suggest that the pronunciation of Zeee for Z is as correct as Zed is laughable.

Zed is the correct pronunciation.

The Latin alphabet took Zeta and turned it into various carriages as time deviated it. Z comes from Zeta, ultimately.

Nope, it's correct based on the form of English you're using. You can say it as many times as you want but you'll be wrong each time. Time creates its own forms of languages as a country or culture deviates it, thus rendering it correct based on the form and type of the language.

The dictionary also seems to agree they're both correct:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/z

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Z is not the same as Zeta. We didn't take Zeta as the final letter of our alphabet, we took Z.

In Greek, Z is pronounced as Zeta, but it's not written as Zeta, but as Z. So Z=Zeta (in Greek).

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Wow, I'm amazed this went on for five pages! Honestly this whole discussion should have ended here:

The two pronunciations are one-to-one English-Japanese counterparts. We speak English, so, "Zee."

If you speak a language with the "Zed" pronunciation, "Zed."

If you want to be really asinine, you'd have to call it "Doragonbooru Zetto" and talk about how much you love it when Toranksu shows up in the Seru arc. But no one should ever do that because it's not really respectful to anything.

That is really all it should boils down to. Personally I pronounce Z as "zee." I'm from the U.S. and that's what I was taught. If you live in an area were "zed" is the proper was of saying Z then cool. pronounce it "zed."

My job here is done. *flies away*

[DerekPadula]

Actually, there's a reason why I started this thread, I was curious to how different people will call Dragon Ball Z, well DBZ Zee or Zed and also hear others opinion on the matter. As you can see, most Americans didn't know that Zee is pronounced Zed in this thread. I was also curious to see if people agreed if Zed is closest to Zetto in terms of translation. It's a fairly new discussion, I never saw any of this topic that are like this before and I thought it have a nice, intelligent conversation without having to bash on dubs and such.

I wrote this extremely detailed article on Dragon Ball Z or Zed almost 2 years ago. It's not a fairly new discussion for me at least, but I guess nobody goes to my blog.

The article covers a lot of the same points that different members here are now mentioning, but goes much deeper. I'd like to think it's the definitive article on the subject.

[DarkGokuZ]

In Denmark, its called "Zed" because thats how the letter "Z" is pronounced here. So thats also the way I say it.