End of Z Goku.

[Dabooyaka]

Ok, this topic hot on Neoseeker, and I seem to be the only one that think base Goku at the end of Z is nowhere near his previous power as a ssj3. People here seem more open minded, and don't appear to suffer from a hive mentality like most members on Neoseeker. What are your thought on Goku's progression from his battle with Boo, until the Budokai at the end of Z? Does his base power rival his ssj3 power from years ago?

[dbgtFO]

Nah.
I mean, I could see it being possible for his regular state to reach those levels to tie in to Elder Kaioshin's thoughts on transformations being inferior or whatever, but being that strong already?

I'm going to need more evidence than, what we currently have then.. which of course is impossible unless Toriyama comes out and says, that's exactly what.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think any power gains Gokuu made in those 10 years were negligible at most, since it was only Earth training, which he'd mastered long since then. He likely wouldn't have had any sparring partners, or at least good ones, since Gohan didn't train in peacetime and Goten was much weaker than him and, as we see, slacked off as he got older and start having a normal Earthling life.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Not even close.

I remember back when I thought this, since I went along with the "Goku was able to take a kiai from someone on-par with Kid Boo" opinion back then

[Kaboom]

Extremely unlikely. The entire idea is based on Goku saying that Oob as "as amazing as he expected," which all things considered is pretty generic and inconclusive. For Goku to have gotten a taste of Oob's dormant, Pure Boo-level power does not require Goku to be on that level himself. 10 years farting around on Earth doesn't seem by any means like enough time to get 400x stronger.

[Piccolo Daimao]

At the very least, maybe Gokuu managed to reduce the energy strain on SS3, which may've granted him access to more of the form's power. But that still doesn't mean his base form is anywhere near to his SS3, let alone his lower SS stages.

[Goten Forever]

Ignoring power level booklets, I don't think Goku in base form has EVER exceeded Goku at SSJ.

[Dabooyaka]

I agree. That's what I've been saying, but I've been called names just because I don't see anything that would lead me to believe that happened. For base Goku to be even close to Ssj3 power is madness IMO.

[Kaboom]

I agree. That's what I've been saying, but I've been called names just because I don't see anything that would lead me to believe that happened.

Welcome to Daizex. It's safer here.

[Dabooyaka]

I've started to notice that Kaboom. Lol.

[CaBrPi]

Yeah, the staff here do a really good job at keeping member hostility low.

But yeah, I agree. It's ridiculous to say that Goku's base was equal to his Super Saiyan 3. He may have had ten years to train, but he was on a low-gravity planet with only one good sparring partner who we KNOW he rarely ever saw.

[NANLIT]

No way is EOZ base Goku near his SSJ3 self from 10 years prior. He wanted to train so he could be able to beat Boo one on one (mentioning this to Vegeta on the Kaioshin planet as part of his reasoning to let the good Boo live), but if the only thing he managed was being able to get rid of the weaknesses of SSJ3 so he could really fight at full power unlike the final Boo battle, that'd be able to do it. But that doesn't mean his base would jump that high.

[CatouttaHell]

Base Son Goku is equal to Pure Boo at the end of Z IMO. He fought an even battle against Enraged Oob, who should be as powerful as his former self, just like Ma Junior was born as powerful as Piccolo Daimao.

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P6.5
Goku: “…But someone besides us and Boo might win.”
Satan: “Hahhahhah, now really! There’s no way that could happen, right?”

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P6.4-5
Context: as Goku and Oob are about to fight
Piccolo: “This will be the most notable fight this time around…”
Dende: “Huh?”
Goku (to Oob): “Don’t be so tense. You won’t be able to put forth your true ability.”

Both Son Goku and Piccolo state from the very start that Oob is at the very least a good deal above Good Boo (neither of their statements would make any sense otherwise.)

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5
Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu
Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. But you don’t know how to use your power. This is the first time you’ve fought like this, right? How about we live together at my house and I’ll teach you!”

Not only does nobody contradict their expectations of Oob, but Son flat-out states that Oob is just as powerful as he expected and refers to the power he used to fight him as his true ability.

Base Goku (EoZ) = Pure Boo = Enraged Oob > Base Vegeta (EoZ) > Base Pan > Good Boo > SSjin 2 Goku (Boo arc)

[Piccolo Daimao]

Did you entirely miss Kaboom's statement?

[NANLIT]

You have 4 year old Pan as stronger than Good Boo an Boo arc SSJ2 Goku? You think she's that powerful??

[CatouttaHell]

You have 4 year old Pan as stronger than Good Boo an Boo arc SSJ2 Goku? You think she's that powerful??

Son Goku said she should be able to get pretty far in a TB that he, Vegeta, Oob, Good Boo, Goten, and Trunks entered so IMO she could potentially be pretty beastly.

[dprez]

I think Goku got a lot stronger. Ten years is a long time and his intentions after the boo saga were to do nothing but train apparently. Still not as strong as Gohan and probably never will be.

Gokus base power may be around his super saiyan 1 level from years prior, but definitely not super saiyan 2 or 3.

[Piccolo Daimao]

CatouttaHell's logic is flawed and people should stop arguing with him, because his over-analyzing mind is impenetrable.

Pan could've easily come up against "normal" opponents (which she did in her first match, being Mou Kekko) that weren't Z-Warriors, and in that sense, "gotten far". I don't know how the fuck you interpret that as meaning "Pan > Mr. Boo". Since Gokuu said that Pan was the one in their family with the most guts, does that automatically mean Pan's stronger than him?

[Son_Gohan]

I agree. That's what I've been saying, but I've been called names just because I don't see anything that would lead me to believe that happened. For base Goku to be even close to Ssj3 power is madness IMO.

Makes you wonder just how strong they believe base Goku was after 7 years of training in the afterlife. When you actually take into consideration just how big these power gaps are (and not something that has just been simplified for a PL list), it's not even fathomable, even reaching SSj1 power would be a stretch, IMO.

[Kaboom]

Let's try not to let this get personal, okay folks?