The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dprez]

Gohan was not going full power against Goten. That's his brother and they were sparing. Gohan told Goten to go full power to test his strength. If Gohan wanted he could put Goten into the dirt in an instant. We have no idea how strong the kids got after ROSAT. They probably didn't even achieve Ssj2 separately.

You have a point about Goku in movie 12 being haxed like he always is in the movies, but even a cannon Gogeta shouldn't be so far behind Vegetto. I mean, can you even tell me why the potara fusion is that much better than the dance?

A lot of what you are saying is just speculation about Vegetto and Boo speaking of a "Gogeta's" power.

Yeah, individually, Goku is stronger than Goten and Vegeta is stronger than Trunks. So Gogeta should be stronger than Gotenks by that logic.

Exactly. Ssj3 Gotenks is most likely even weaker than just a Ssj Gogeta.

[Mystic Gohan]

I seriously dobt ssj3 gotenks would lose to ssj gogeta. That is taking it too far. I don't believe the kids are to far below the adults myself. So i think that ssj2 gogeta could beat ssj3 gotenks, but not ssj.

[Goten Forever]

I agree with Mystic Gohan. The sheer difference between a SSJ3 fusion and a SSJ fusion is drastic.

We could say that SSJ Gotenks was about as strong as SSJ2 Goku or Vegeta. A little weaker perhaps but not by far.
SSJ2 Gotenks would be as strong as a normal SSJ3.
SSJ3 Gotenks would be a LOT stronger probably.

Gogeta SSJ would be be SSJ3 strength, a bit stronger.
SSJ2 Gogeta would be MUCH stronger. Like Gotenks.
SSJ3 Gogeta... the world will implode.

[Fox666]

We could say that SSJ Gotenks was about as strong as SSJ2 Goku or Vegeta. A little weaker perhaps but not by far.

I am not quite sure about how strong Gotenks is. I can see him being not much stronger than Goku and Vegeta, but I can also see him 10 times stronger than them.

[Goten Forever]

Goku and Vegeta are much stronger than Trunks and Goten

That's debatable. Son Goten was implied to already be on par with Gohan Pre-RoSaT and they were implied to get huge increases in the RoSaT.

and since Ssj Gogeta destroyed someone who's probably in Super Boos range with extreme ease

Movies are non-canon. Movie 13 shows Son Goku outdoing SSjin 3 Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan, and that's obviously contradictory bullshit.

That's what I am thinking. How can SSJ3 Goku, limited by energy and whatnot (things that I have never seen affect Goten or Trunks in any form, apart from fusion time), POSSIBLY overtake SSJ3 Gotenks in terms of strength? If that were the case it wouldn't be such a big deal when he first sees them, clearly emphasising that 'his son' was more powerful in the SSJ3 fusion than he ever was.

I think that SSJ Goten and Trunks individually, post-ROSAT are at least on par with Goku's Cell Saga strength. They had mastered super saiyan practically at birth and had a very long time to get stronger.

[Rocketman]

The boys did not spend long enough in the HTC to gain significant power.

[Goten Forever]

The boys did not spend long enough in the HTC to gain significant power.

Gotenks SSJ2? Gotenks SSJ3?

[Kaboom]

The boys did not spend long enough in the HTC to gain significant power.

Gotenks SSJ2? Gotenks SSJ3?

Gotenks himself probably just needed some time to experiment in order to gain those forms. He's a magical Fusion who's more-or-less capable of pulling power out from thin air, so it stands to reason that he'd be able to push himself up to higher Super Saiyan forms with ease. But that doesn't really reflect on the individual kids.

[dprez]

I seriously dobt ssj3 gotenks would lose to ssj gogeta. That is taking it too far. I don't believe the kids are to far below the adults myself. So i think that ssj2 gogeta could beat ssj3 gotenks, but not ssj.

Well from my point of view it's not going to far at all. Popular opinion is to have Janemba around Super Boo's level because it makes sense based on how Goku fared against him. Ssj Gogeta completely outmatched Janemba similarly to how Ultimate Gohan did Super Boo. Ssj3 Gotenks was around Super Boos power, so if Ssj Gogeta can destroy with ease someone on par with Super Boo, was does that say about a possible Ssj3 Gotenks vs Ssj Gogeta. Sure movie Goku is haxed, but still, the kids are not even close to their fathers power. Their two weeks in the Rosat couldn't have granted them enough power to rival their dads, I'm sure they mainly focused on training Gotenks anyway. Movie vs. canon Gogeta seams to be what CatouttaHell was speaking of, and that's fine. IMO canon Gogeta would pretty much be identical to movie Gogeta.

[hleV]

The boys did not spend long enough in the HTC to gain significant power.

Gotenks SSJ2? Gotenks SSJ3?

Goku was much weaker than Gotenks and he achieved SSJ3. What's the problem with Gotenks, who's much stronger than Goku, to do the same? There really is no need for these complex theories for the achievements of SSJ levels; as long as you have power, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Rocketman]

The boys did not spend long enough in the HTC to gain significant power.

Gotenks SSJ2? Gotenks SSJ3?

1. That's Gotenks, not Goten and Trunks.

2. It was like six hours total, and every Gotenks fusion uses up one hour.

[Goten Forever]

The boys did not spend long enough in the HTC to gain significant power.

Gotenks SSJ2? Gotenks SSJ3?

1. That's Gotenks, not Goten and Trunks.

2. It was like six hours total, and every Gotenks fusion uses up one hour.

They spent, what, 2 real-world hours in there?
2x365 = they spent 720 hours in there.
Which is 8.22% of a year.
About a month, probably just over.

[Rocketman]

Two hours? It was like forty minutes at best.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, Piccolo asked Boo to wait for an hour, which he tried but then got impatient after only a half hour. Piccolo stalled by leading Boo around, but they still showed up way earlier than Goten and Trunks were expecting. The total time the boys had inside the room measured to about a week and a half.

[Mystic Gohan]

I agree with Mystic Gohan. The sheer difference between a SSJ3 fusion and a SSJ fusion is drastic.

We could say that SSJ Gotenks was about as strong as SSJ2 Goku or Vegeta. A little weaker perhaps but not by far.
SSJ2 Gotenks would be as strong as a normal SSJ3.
SSJ3 Gotenks would be a LOT stronger probably.

Gogeta SSJ would be be SSJ3 strength, a bit stronger.
SSJ2 Gogeta would be MUCH stronger. Like Gotenks.
SSJ3 Gogeta... the world will implode.

Ssj gotenks pre is already ssj3 tier. As for gogeta, you would prolly love neoseekers placement of gogeta. They have ssj3 gogeta<gotenks-buu.

[Fox666]

They have ssj3 gogeta<gotenks-buu.

And what's the problem? Gotenks-absorbed Boo told Gohan that merging with Goku would be of no use, and since he absorbed Piccolo too he know well enough how the metamorian fusion works.

[Pantalones]

Gotenks-absorbed Boo told Gohan that merging with Goku would be of no use, and since he absorbed Piccolo too he know well enough how the metamorian fusion works

Piccolo had seen Metamorian fusion used... what, twice in an actual fight? Maybe three times? And all of those times were in the same day, with the same two people fusing each time. It's not like he's some sort of expert on the technique.

Not even Goku seems to know for sure exactly how strong a fusion between any two characters would be--he guesses that Goten and Trunks would be able to beat Fat Buu initially, and before their extra training... they didn't do so well. (Though I'm not sure if they even tried Super Saiyan that time or if they just charged in like idiots trying to fight him in their base form.) And he's the guy who teaches it to everyone else! I don't think you can really say that anyone is an expert on fusion, except maybe whoever it was who taught Goku in the afterlife, and we never see them.

[Godo]

About Gotenks' growth, wasn't Piccolo quite impressed with his power even though he didn't know Gotenks was able to use the Super Saiya-jin? And Piccolo had felt Gotenks power prior to the ROSAT.

When Piccolo had entered the ROSAT, he grew a lot but still knew it was nothing against Cell's power. And he had felt Super Buu's power before, and could do a rough estimate.

But I guess that due to the inconsistencies with the characters and their predictions, Piccolo may either have been wrong or too excited. Or maybe he wasn't able to measure too accurately since he was so far behind power-wise that any power as strong as SSJ2 seemed insanely huge.

[Piccolo Daimao]

About Gotenks' growth, wasn't Piccolo quite impressed with his power even though he didn't know Gotenks was able to use the Super Saiya-jin? And Piccolo had felt Gotenks power prior to the ROSAT.

When Piccolo had entered the ROSAT, he grew a lot but still knew it was nothing against Cell's power. And he had felt Super Buu's power before, and could do a rough estimate.

But I guess that due to the inconsistencies with the characters and their predictions, Piccolo may either have been wrong or too excited. Or maybe he wasn't able to measure too accurately since he was so far behind power-wise that any power as strong as SSJ2 seemed insanely huge.

It was a set-up for a gag.

[Fox666]

Yes, Boo took down Gotenks' regular form in one hit.

Besides, for Gotenks to get over 50 times stronger, it would need for Trunks and Goten do something similar, and I think nobody would believe that. Even if the metamorian fusion was the multiplication of battle powers, it would still need a growth of over 7 times for the two, and any other imaginable formula for the fusion would be larger than that.