Why Does The Xbox 360 Never Do Well In Japan?

[VegettoEX]

I'm not a fan of it, but I still call it "soccer", because that's the word in my society that we use. If we didn't already have something we called "football", then fine, you'd have an argument. But we do. Which is already absorbed into the very fabric of our culture. So that's that.

Please only contribute if you have something to say about the topic at hand.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

You realize... it's not an obsolete term when you give an example of millions of people who use it on a normal basis (and the US isn't the only country that still calls it soccer.)

I wouldn't count on millions, maybe thousands because football in US isn't much known like in other countries.

The US has over 300 million plus people. I think it's safe to say many millions know what "soccer" is, whether they follow it or not.

It's funny people in US think "futbol" is the correct way of spelling football, lol. ^^"

Please tell me you didn't come to this conclusion from the internet!

Then again, I could see an American troll who forget how to spell spelling it that way after hearing the English pronunciation. We have our own game using the word, I'd like to think most of us know how to write it.

Also, semi-related spin-off question; why does the PS3 do better in Europe?

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

I was under the impression that the 360 was doing better in Europe but I don't live there so I don't know. More exclusive titles?

[dbboxkaifan]

Also, semi-related spin-off question; why does the PS3 do better in Europe?

Sony does a lot of advertisement on EU countries, Portugal for example is almost Sony consoles only, there's Nintendo too and Microsoft's Xbox 360, but Sony's the big one (check the shelfs of retail stores and you'll just see PS3/PSP/PSV titles).

They're used to just Sony consoles so they don't even bother trying out the other systems on the market.

On GRID Xbox LIVE there's a lot of different gamers from around the world: French, Brits, Spanish, Americans, Canadians, Japanese (rarely seen), Germans, Italians, Irish, etc. Don't make them angry (wreck their vehicle) or they'll cuss ya.

Sometimes I feel like play clean then other times, just dirty (wreck whoever I see).

[TripleRach]

The US has over 300 million plus people. I think it's safe to say many millions know what "soccer" is, whether they follow it or not.

Yes. It's not that popular on a professional level compared to other sports, but everyone knows what soccer is. Rugby, on the other hand, is probably just "that UK sport??" to most Americans.

It's funny people in US think "futbol" is the correct way of spelling football, lol. ^^"

I don't know where you got that idea, but in spite of any reality behind the "lol stupid americans" stereotypes, I can say with certainty that most people know how to spell "football." American football is extremely popular, after all. I don't think I've ever seen anyone spell it "futbol" except as a joke.

I realize other mods have already responded to this stuff, but this thread seems to be a magnet for prejudice and stereotypes, and I hate misinformation.

[Adamant]

I know they hate American consoles, but do they at least like some of our games? (Like Skyrim)

From what I've gathered, Japanese gamers that have a preference for American games tend to be a fairly rare breed there.

Depends on the series. I believe the Wizardry series is way more popular in Japan than in any western countries.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Also, semi-related spin-off question; why does the PS3 do better in Europe?

Sony does a lot of advertisement on EU countries, Portugal for example is almost Sony consoles only, there's Nintendo too and Microsoft's Xbox 360, but Sony's the big one (check the shelfs of retail stores and you'll just see PS3/PSP/PSV titles).

They're used to just Sony consoles so they don't even bother trying out the other systems on the market.

Sony just did a bang-up job at taking the market years back, then. I have had avid Nintendo fans in the UK tell me that the "Kiddy Nintendo" stereotype was fairly vicious as far as video game fanboyism goes during the Gamecube era.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I have had avid Nintendo fans in the UK tell me that the "Kiddy Nintendo" stereotype was fairly vicious as far as video game fanboyism goes during the Gamecube era.

And they didn't help themselves with the Wii (and, to a lesser extent, DS), with all their third-party shovelware and cheesy "family-fun" adverts.

But I guess they've still attracted a vast audience of previous non-gamers, resulting in many sales.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I have had avid Nintendo fans in the UK tell me that the "Kiddy Nintendo" stereotype was fairly vicious as far as video game fanboyism goes during the Gamecube era.

And they didn't help themselves with the Wii (and, to a lesser extent, DS), with all their third-party shovelware and cheesy "family-fun" adverts.

But I guess they've still attracted a vast audience of previous non-gamers, resulting in many sales.

Nintendo's allowed to play to their strengths and reaping in licensing fees. They've been the family console manufacturer since... ever, they just decided to really capitalize on it. Can you really tell me the GBA was in any way a more mature product than the DS? What games sold Gamecubes, despite Resident Evil 4's exclusivity and Reggie's E3 2004 trash talk (Sony wants you to buy their proprietary stuff, Microsoft wants you to use Windows, which is somehow insulting to you intelligence despite that neither of these things have to do with gaming right now)?

But then I'm just one of the vocal internet minority who didn't give up on the Wii the second I realized it wasn't getting every HD exclusive and have ended up surprised with just how much the thing does have; I'll be playing it for the foreseeable future. It's got the "Two or three entries in every genre and then your out of luck" curse of the N64 and Gamecube, but I expect to top 20 games for it, and since 26 for Gamecube is my single biggest collection, that's something. More than I can say for my GBA, DS, PSP, or PS2. Not that any of those platforms are lacking games at all.

It's really no longer a problem anymore now that the 3DS's slow start has gone a long way towards making Nintendo understand that they got lucky with an uptapped market and that that lightning cannot and will not strike twice.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I have had avid Nintendo fans in the UK tell me that the "Kiddy Nintendo" stereotype was fairly vicious as far as video game fanboyism goes during the Gamecube era.

And they didn't help themselves with the Wii (and, to a lesser extent, DS), with all their third-party shovelware and cheesy "family-fun" adverts.

But I guess they've still attracted a vast audience of previous non-gamers, resulting in many sales.

Nintendo's allowed to play to their strengths and reaping in licensing fees. They've been the family console manufacturer since... ever, they just decided to really capitalize on it. Can you really tell me the GBA was in any way a more mature product than the DS? What games sold Gamecubes, despite Resident Evil 4's exclusivity and Reggie's E3 2004 trash talk (Sony wants you to buy their proprietary stuff, Microsoft wants you to use Windows, which is somehow insulting to you intelligence despite that neither of these things have to do with gaming right now)?

But then I'm just one of the vocal internet minority who didn't give up on the Wii the second I realized it wasn't getting every HD exclusive and have ended up surprised with just how much the thing does have; I'll be playing it for the foreseeable future. It's got the "Two or three entries in every genre and then your out of luck" curse of the N64 and Gamecube, but I expect to top 20 games for it, and since 26 for Gamecube is my single biggest collection, that's something. More than I can say for my GBA, DS, PSP, or PS2. Not that any of those platforms are lacking games at all.

It's really no longer a problem anymore now that the 3DS's slow start has gone a long way towards making Nintendo understand that they got lucky with an uptapped market and that that lightning cannot and will not strike twice.

I know that Nintendo have always had a reputation for having family games, but they seemingly broke out to the forefront with the Wii, bringing with it tons of third-party shovelware including your generic fitness games that mainly cater to the "casual gamer" audience, or non-gamers that have only started to jump on the bandwagon because of the Wii and its whole "these games make you fit, not unhealthy!" message.

Personally, I don't care whether or not a game console and its games are mature or it's got super-realistic HD graphics (and even the supposed maturity of a game is subjective, if its only grab is "VIOLENCE! BLOOOOD! TITS & ASS!" and it's underage children that'll get the most enjoyment of seeing dismembered limbs flying out at them in a game that it's illegal for them to play). I think the GBA was better than the DS, but that's just my personal opinion. I still think the DS was good, though. The Wii? Not so much. I don't like motion control and I'm not a big fan of its library either.

But Nintendo have kind of alienated a lot of people, mainly the hardcore gamers. Before the Wii, you didn't have these mawkish adverts with a goofy father and son acting badly as they try to look as if they're having as much fun as possible playing Just Dance 3. But, like I said, they're still selling, so what does it even matter?

But I agree that Nintendo were wrong in thinking that lightning could strike twice. I'm still at odds as to whether or not to buy the 3DS or the PSVita, since I'm not a fan of the 3D gimmick that many games might rely on (although, at least you can turn it off). But I don't think the PSVita has sold that well in Japan either. It's not got backwards compatibility with PSP games (other than downloads), which blows ass.

Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man lost in childhood nostalgia (even though I'm 16) who's largely missed out on this gaming generation (my PSP broke and I only got my Xbox 360 last year) and barely even plays his Xbox 360, let alone games in general, anymore, due to other stuff in my life.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I know that Nintendo have always had a reputation for having family games, but they seemingly broke out to the forefront with the Wii, bringing with it tons of third-party shovelware including your generic fitness games that mainly cater to the "casual gamer" audience, or non-gamers that have only started to jump on the bandwagon because of the Wii and its whole "these games make you fit, not unhealthy!" message.

To the winner comes the shovelware. Just ask the PS2. Difference is Sony actually has quality control, even though said quality control has probably caused nearly as much harm as good

But Nintendo have kind of alienated a lot of people, mainly the hardcore gamers. Before the Wii, you didn't have these mawkish adverts with a goofy father and son acting badly as they try to look as if they're having as much fun as possible playing Just Dance 3. But, like I said, they're still selling, so what does it even matter?

They've been alienating gamers with their console libraries since 1996.

To be perfectly honest I don't understand why people are shocked at them trying something different with the Wii when we can assume many of these people (going by "a lot of people" rather than the harder core fanbase) only bought Nintendo consoles for first party games to start with, thus the value they placed on Nintendo was minimal to start with. Much like a lot of third party developers, it's a "When Nintendo plays the way I want them to, I acknowledge them and move on, yet when they don't, I complain because it suddenly means something precious to me" type of relationship. Am I going to put words in some people's mouths with that? Sadly so, people don't necessarily give their details online.

But I agree that Nintendo were wrong in thinking that lightning could strike twice. I'm still at odds as to whether or not to buy the 3DS or the PSVita, since I'm not a fan of the 3D gimmick that many games might rely on (although, at least you can turn it off). But I don't think the PSVita has sold that well in Japan either. It's not got backwards compatibility with PSP games (other than downloads), which blows ass.

To the defense of the reality of the 3DS, despite not owning one and having no desire to own one until it's library actually justifies a purchase (Which will happen, but won't be any time soon), 3D is a complete gimmick, everyone in their right mind knew that from the start by virtue of it's giving no actual input into a game, but so far it's been a completely harmless one. The 3DS has been treated like a stronger DS with 3D tacked on, meaning that by spending less time on it, developers are focusing on what actually matters.

As for the Vita, the PSP still thrives in Japan, as we all know, and as such, end of story. Already we have statements from Sony about how they need to market the Vita as something different in the one region where it's predecessor hasn't died.

Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man lost in childhood nostalgia (even though I'm 16) who's largely missed out on this gaming generation (my PSP broke and I only got my Xbox 360 last year) and barely even plays his Xbox 360, let alone games in general, anymore, due to other stuff in my life.

You're playing less games; means there's a good chance whatever else you're doing is more productive.

[MarcFBR]

To the winner comes the shovelware. Just ask the PS2. Difference is Sony actually has quality control, even though said quality control has probably caused nearly as much harm as good

I say this as someone who owns both Nintendo and Sony gear.

Sony 'quality control' of that era was 'did the check clear?'

[GS7X7]

There were a lot of damn good PS2 games.

[MarcFBR]

There were a lot of damn good PS2 games.

Which isn't the point.

There were also a ton of really horrible ones. Same as nearly any other system.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

There were a lot of damn good PS2 games.

As there are more than enough good Wii games to justify the purchase. But point being most successful platform in a respective race gets the most shovelware. That's not an insult, it's a fact. Game Boy Advance, DS, SNES, the grandaddy of shovelware in every respect, the NES, etc.

Example, there would be no iOS fans if it were an insult, because in that particularly case it'd be a fatal and perfect one!

To the winner comes the shovelware. Just ask the PS2. Difference is Sony actually has quality control, even though said quality control has probably caused nearly as much harm as good

I say this as someone who owns both Nintendo and Sony gear.

Sony 'quality control' of that era was 'did the check clear?'

I own Sony stuff too, have one counterpoint; "We won't let you make straight ports on the PSP without new content, despite that we do it all the time and continue to do it with the Vita, because we have enough our machine enough not to allow straight ports or games without English voice-overs but let shovelware right through."

Really don't want to turn this into a console debate that doesn't even involve the one that started the topic, just responding to Piccolo and watching that grow, but I don't think that was anyone's intent.

[MarcFBR]

I own Sony stuff too, have one counterpoint; "We won't let you make straight ports on the PSP without new content, despite that we do it all the time and continue to do it with the Vita, because we have enough our machine enough not to allow straight ports or games without English voice-overs but let shovelware right through."

Really don't want to turn this into a console debate that doesn't even involve the one that started the topic, just responding to Piccolo and watching that grow, but I don't think that was anyone's intent.

That was less an attempt at quality control, and more an attempt to get fans of certain games to want to buy the PSP hardware to get 'special editions' of games.

And of course, you had brought up the PS2, not the PSP, which makes it a bit of a moot point.

Doubly so when you realize just how much shovelware the PSP had.

[dbboxkaifan]

I own Sony stuff too, have one counterpoint; "We won't let you make straight ports on the PSP without new content, despite that we do it all the time and continue to do it with the Vita, because we have enough our machine enough not to allow straight ports or games without English voice-overs but let shovelware right through."

Really don't want to turn this into a console debate that doesn't even involve the one that started the topic, just responding to Piccolo and watching that grow, but I don't think that was anyone's intent.

Sony just wants the users to re-buy what they already own for the new device.

I thought to myself PS3 was powerful but then PS1 games don't run smoothly nor is PS2 compatible (as in inserting the PS2 disc & play), though Sony has started to put up PS2 titles on the PS Store.

PS3 could have so many fantastic features and an updated internet browser (to watch YouTube in HD), but nah, Sony's not into updating or grant its fans' wishes.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

That was less an attempt at quality control, and more an attempt to get fans of certain games to want to buy the PSP hardware to get 'special editions' of games.

Tell that to Tales of Eternia and Breath of Fire.

And of course, you had brought up the PS2, not the PSP, which makes it a bit of a moot point.

Doubly so when you realize just how much shovelware the PSP had.

Oh, well aware of the PSP's shovelware. But my ultimate point, which I single-handedly diluted to the point of not even implying it in my prior posts- and thus is going to make me look like I'm backpedaling out of the verbal hole I just dug even more than I already am- was that Sony did strange things Nintendo doesn't, and that rabid shovelware magically appearing on the Wii is not some special sin against gamers that only Nintendo is guilty of.

And then using that as springboard to needlessly quip about how two-faced Sony occasionally is with the licensing. So I did just fall flat on my face.

[Super Sayian Prime]

There are many posts in this thread that I do not feel necessarily represent the discussion at hand. Many feel as though they're delving into personal opinion, and trying to extrapolate a broad picture from that. That's not really the case here.

I do not agree with Mike in that the failure of the Xbox 360 in Japan is solely one of xenophobia, though it certainly plays a part in it. I have been following game sales for many years, prior to the discussion of sales I've made on this forum. It's more complicated than that, and if xenophobia played such a role than Apple, and Windows would not have been the stalwarts they are in Japanese society.

I think the problem with the Xbox comes from the very beginning. Microsoft designed Xbox as a platform for delivering PC gaming to home consoles. This was the mindset they had coming into the video game industry. The name Xbox itself comes from DirectX an API suite Microsoft created. It was originally the DirectX Box. This methodology of bringing PC gaming home can be seen in their ideals for the platform. The Xbox branding finally broke through with online gaming, a traditionally PC exclusive space and with it brought traditionally PC exclusive genres like western RPGs, and FPSs to consoles. This is the first point of issue for the Xbox in Japan. PC gaming is considered the land of doujin developers, and perverts in Japan. Now that Falcom has left the PC gaming space, there is no legitimate Japanese PC gaming power house.

I do not know why PC gaming is seen in such a negative light in Japan, but I've been told by a few it comes from the belief that PCs are so ingrained with working that the average person can not relax while using one of those. I feel that's kind of a goofy excuse, but I don't really know more on that subject.

Due to this the Xbox was not tailored for the Japanese audience, and Microsoft made no attempts to change this on the original platform with the only notable Japanese games for it being either niche titles, or ports of games on other platforms. As such, the Xbox got the kind of reception one might expect a platform that doesn't target a market at all to get. On more than one occasion both Media Create and Famitsu reported 0 Xbox units sold in a Japanese sales week. Zero as in less than one in all of Japan. I feel as though this was the kiss of death for the brand in Japan.

This leads us to the Xbox 360. The platform that succeeds the original Xbox. Given the fact that it came off the disastrous Xbox it was always going to have its work cut out for it in Japan. The fact that it was American only making it harder for itself, with the hardware issues compounding a very bad image for it. Once again the platform's ideals line with PC gaming focusing on online multiplayer (which is not a selling point in Japan for any platform), and more western gaming concepts. But Microsoft having seen how important Japan was for the PS2, attempted to salvage their brand by buying multiple exclusives from the likes of Namco Bandai, Square Enix, and Mistwalker. The problem of course being that the PS3 was the successor to the most successful console in Japan - the PS2. Therefore many would've assumed the likes of Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Tales and Metal Gear would go to PS3, just as they did from PS1 to PS2. It was Japanese, and had the hugely established name PlayStation on it. If you were buying an Xbox 360 instead of a PS3 many would call you a foul.

With all of this said, Microsoft was making inroads in Japan. The JRPGs while not as important as they were for PS2 boosted hardware sales well above anything the original Xbox could hope to imagine to find in Japan but still not up to what the PS3 was pushing. The issue here comes from the fact that Microsoft gave up trying to win Japan over. I can't say why Microsoft stopped paying for Japanese exclusives. Maybe they felt the inroads they were making in Japan wasn't worth the cost. Maybe they felt they could write off the Japanese market, and not miss much. I don't know. But when they stopped it became very apparent. The 360 would never outdo the PS3 in Japan. It simply had too much going against it, but I feel as if Microsoft had continued they would've put the platform after the 360 at a position to potentially compete. But they gave up. Microsoft Japan began to allow the 360 to appeal to Japanese PC gamers. It started to get the pervert games, as well as the indie ones. That's a stigma you can't erase from public opinion, and soon that became all the 360 was good for. Sales reflected a platform like this. It's to the point where the 360's weekly sales are now in competition with the PS2. You know the same PS2 that was launched in the year 2000 and competed against the original Xbox.

This failure leaves many, including myself questioning what Microsoft plans to do next. This year they've been celebrating the brand's 10th Anniversary in Japan, and part of me thinks it's also a goodbye celebration. Microsoft Japan doesn't exist in the sense that it develops and produces games. The exclusives it has for the Kinect are the definition of niche with the likes of Grasshopper Interactive's Diabolical Pitch, Crimson Dragon, and Steel Battalion. Personally, I think Microsoft either needs to ditch the Xbox branding for the next hardware cycle - because they'll never find success with that given the Xbox, and 360's performance in Japan. The name is polluted and almost the equivalent to otaku console.

Kinect sales itself in Japan actually are not that bad given the kind of market it's selling to and the fact it clashes with the average Japanese living room. As of November 2011 Microsoft had sold 114,000 Kinect units in Japan. That's a lot more than what I would've expected. Though, I should state that 70% of Kinect's 114k came from its first two months of sales in Japan, which should tell you it was not a peripheral with legs, and likely an active userbase.

Software on the otherhand agrees with my active userbase comment:

01. Kinect Adventure! 114,000 (bundled)
02. Forza Motorsport 4: 24,900
03. DanceEvolution: 22,400
04. Kinect Sports: 13,000
05. You Shape Fitness Evolved: 12,300
06. Dance Central: 8,690
07. Kinect Animals: 5,350
08. New Brain Training 4,930
09. Sonic Free Riders: 4,160
10. Fighters Uncaged: 3,470

Dragon Ball Z for Kinect will do numbers that may rival Dragon Ball Evolution on PSP. Well, that's assuming I even get numbers.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I know that Nintendo have always had a reputation for having family games, but they seemingly broke out to the forefront with the Wii, bringing with it tons of third-party shovelware including your generic fitness games that mainly cater to the "casual gamer" audience, or non-gamers that have only started to jump on the bandwagon because of the Wii and its whole "these games make you fit, not unhealthy!" message.

To the winner comes the shovelware. Just ask the PS2. Difference is Sony actually has quality control, even though said quality control has probably caused nearly as much harm as good

Hmm, I thought that the Xbox 360 was selling more units nowadays. If I walk into school and claim that I prefer the Wii to the Xbox 360, I'd get heckled. Of course, I know that teenagers probably don't make up the majority of gamers.

But Nintendo have kind of alienated a lot of people, mainly the hardcore gamers. Before the Wii, you didn't have these mawkish adverts with a goofy father and son acting badly as they try to look as if they're having as much fun as possible playing Just Dance 3. But, like I said, they're still selling, so what does it even matter?

They've been alienating gamers with their console libraries since 1996.

To be perfectly honest I don't understand why people are shocked at them trying something different with the Wii when we can assume many of these people (going by "a lot of people" rather than the harder core fanbase) only bought Nintendo consoles for first party games to start with, thus the value they placed on Nintendo was minimal to start with. Much like a lot of third party developers, it's a "When Nintendo plays the way I want them to, I acknowledge them and move on, yet when they don't, I complain because it suddenly means something precious to me" type of relationship. Am I going to put words in some people's mouths with that? Sadly so, people don't necessarily give their details online.

Really? I thought the Nintendo 64 had done reasonably well, just that it didn't sell as much as the Sony PlayStation.

And I'm not shocked. That's just the way I've been seeing it.

But I agree that Nintendo were wrong in thinking that lightning could strike twice. I'm still at odds as to whether or not to buy the 3DS or the PSVita, since I'm not a fan of the 3D gimmick that many games might rely on (although, at least you can turn it off). But I don't think the PSVita has sold that well in Japan either. It's not got backwards compatibility with PSP games (other than downloads), which blows ass.

To the defense of the reality of the 3DS, despite not owning one and having no desire to own one until it's library actually justifies a purchase (Which will happen, but won't be any time soon), 3D is a complete gimmick, everyone in their right mind knew that from the start by virtue of it's giving no actual input into a game, but so far it's been a completely harmless one. The 3DS has been treated like a stronger DS with 3D tacked on, meaning that by spending less time on it, developers are focusing on what actually matters.

As for the Vita, the PSP still thrives in Japan, as we all know, and as such, end of story. Already we have statements from Sony about how they need to market the Vita as something different in the one region where it's predecessor hasn't died.

Yeah, that's true. I know it's only early days, so the 3DS and its library could get better and Nintendo could release updated versions (like the GBA SP, DS Lite, DSi, etc.).

And yeah, I guess, as time progresses, the Vita will come into its own.

Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man lost in childhood nostalgia (even though I'm 16) who's largely missed out on this gaming generation (my PSP broke and I only got my Xbox 360 last year) and barely even plays his Xbox 360, let alone games in general, anymore, due to other stuff in my life.

You're playing less games; means there's a good chance whatever else you're doing is more productive.

I wish I could feel that way. Nowadays, it feels as if my life's pretty empty, going through the same boring routine of waking up, going to school, coming back and then going on my laptop until I decide to sleep. Same thing on the weekends, only minus the school part. And the aforementioned problems that I need to get "fixed".