The Harmony Gold Dub & Broadcast Audio Discussion Thread

[DerekPadula]

Just heard from Tommy.

He said that they did indeed track down the Harmony Gold dub music reel. He said, "Digitization costs by an audio lab will probably run somewhere between $100-250. Though the music rights are still owned by Harmony Gold, I can predict the company will be unlikely to authorize a digital transfer as the license to which it is attached is expired (i.e. no projected revenue stream, no funds to spend). If the present license holder (FUNimation) is willing to cover material costs, and some type of simple agreement can be reached to permit the reproduction of the music as a DVD extra, etc. by FUNimation, I suppose it can be done. Yes, a lot of red tape to get this obscure gem back out, but I'm just giving you the proper procedure to do it, by the book. Let me know what you want to do next."

I told him I would think about it and get back to him. I also asked if he knew exactly what was on it, and how long the tracks were. Waiting to hear back on those questions.

Not entirely sure where to take it from here. Any suggestions?

[superrayman3]

Just heard from Tommy.

He said that they did indeed track down the Harmony Gold dub music reel. He said, "Digitization costs by an audio lab will probably run somewhere between $100-250. Though the music rights are still owned by Harmony Gold, I can predict the company will be unlikely to authorize a digital transfer as the license to which it is attached is expired (i.e. no projected revenue stream, no funds to spend).

I had a feeling something like that would be a problem with this project.

If the present license holder (FUNimation) is willing to cover material costs, and some type of simple agreement can be reached to permit the reproduction of the music as a DVD extra, etc. by FUNimation, I suppose it can be done.

So there's still a chance that this can be done?

Yes, a lot of red tape to get this obscure gem back out, but I'm just giving you the proper procedure to do it, by the book. Let me know what you want to do next."

The only things I can think of is try to spread the word about the audio reel and try to get people interested in it, we could also try to contact FUNimation and see if we can convince them to support and allow HG to do this.

I told him I would think about it and get back to him. I also asked if he knew exactly what was on it, and how long the tracks were. Waiting to hear back on those questions.

Good call the more info we can get about the content of the reel the better the chances we have of getting people to support this.

Not entirely sure where to take it from here. Any suggestions?

At the current moment other than what I suggested I don't think there's much else we can do but wait and see what happens. Thanks for the update Derek.

[atm5508]

Wow, that cost is much less than the initial estimate, makes me feel a little more hopeful!

[Taro77]

I noticed this was getting a lot of attention lately, and I figured it was the best time for me to come in and weigh my two cents in on it.

I was the one who leaked the Dr. Slump pilot sometime ago. The pilot itself had been in my collection for over a decade now, though it's presence was really only known to those fans who had traded copies of it throughout the years. Originally though I had gotten it first from one of the greatest anime fandom pioneers of his time, he maintains a pretty good blog that should be read by anyone. It really didn't air anyway as some people thought, as it was basically a test video meant to arouse interest from potential buyers at stations or networks to pick up said program. It wasn't meant to be seen as an actual broadcast at all. From what I saw of it, I thought it was still quite a well-written show with what they could put into that first episode (I don't know how I can see them get into the show with things like Senbei's x-ray glasses in the following half-hour. Some of those lines were pretty clever like "We have a lot of midgets in our family background". Of course plenty of edits I felt when it wasn't for objectionable content tend to be for the usual Japanese nature of the show (basically the signage). I could picture it being something that showed up on TV in the late 80's on cable someplace if some form or another.

For HG's take on Dragon Ball, I kinda think it would've been a real sweet cartoon for someone my age to have seen had it aired regularly 30 years ago on TV. It certainly could have rode the waves of martial arts interest spurred by the Ninja Turtles of the day. Perhaps be something of my generation's Star Blazers in that respect (for anyone up on their anime history).

It's true though that many TV stations basically don't care about what they threw out, it's often up to the viewers themselves to put the pieces together anyway possible (what we've been able to see on YouTube is a good example). Best I was able to find off an old online auction was these two tapes that I think came from a previous Harmony Gold production for the Toei TV special "Run For Life".
http://i.imgur.com/Tl2oH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cnxUA.jpg

[takarajima]

.

[superrayman3]

I was the one who leaked the Dr. Slump pilot sometime ago. The pilot itself had been in my collection for over a decade now, though it's presence was really only known to those fans who had traded copies of it throughout the years. Originally though I had gotten it first from one of the greatest anime fandom pioneers of his time, he maintains a pretty good blog that should be read by anyone.

I know the guy you're referring to (Dave Merrill). He hangs out at The Aging Otaku Lounge. I've already asked him, and he does not have what you guys are looking for, so for anyone thinking of emailing him regarding the HG dub, it's not necessary.

Thanks for telling us ahead of time that Dave Merrill doesn't have the HG dub of DB I actually was going to talk to his sometime this weekend about it but now i don't need to do so.

[Taro77]

I was the one who leaked the Dr. Slump pilot sometime ago. The pilot itself had been in my collection for over a decade now, though it's presence was really only known to those fans who had traded copies of it throughout the years. Originally though I had gotten it first from one of the greatest anime fandom pioneers of his time, he maintains a pretty good blog that should be read by anyone.

I know the guy you're referring to (Dave Merrill). He hangs out at The Aging Otaku Lounge. I've already asked him, and he does not have what you guys are looking for, so for anyone thinking of emailing him regarding the HG dub, it's not necessary.

Thanks for telling us ahead of time that Dave Merrill doesn't have the HG dub of DB I actually was going to talk to his sometime this weekend about it but now i don't need to do so.

Well at least I said something!

You can ask him about "Blistering Bulls--t!" if you like, but I'm sure he's heard enough of that one!

[TheBlackPaladin]

Okay, I know I've said it earlier in the thread, but I'm going to say it again--I am SERIOUSLY impressed at the info you guys have been able to dig up!

Back on topic, I'm not entirely sure I understand what's on this music reel. What sort of music did HG compose for "Dragon Ball"?

[superrayman3]

Okay, I know I've said it earlier in the thread, but I'm going to say it again--I am SERIOUSLY impressed at the info you guys have been able to dig up!

I'm also pretty impressed with how much info we've been able to dig up in such a short amount of time i'm also pretty surprised how far this thread has come from a debate of whether or not the pilot episodes exist to being a topic about trying to discover as much info as we can about the HG dub.

Back on topic, I'm not entirely sure I understand what's on this music reel. What sort of music did HG compose for "Dragon Ball"?

If I could guess it's probably just one of the music reels Toei gave HG that never went back to Toei and it had the music for DB or it could be the HG Dragon ball theme song, but until Tommy says what the contents are it's anybody's guess as to what they found for all we know it could be the complete english dub track for the HG movies that was mislabeled although the chances of that being the case are slim to none. (one can hope right?)

[DerekPadula]

I received another follow up email from Tommy.

He said that digitizing the music would probably cost between $100 to $200. Harmony Gold said they won't pay for it because there's no financial incentive, so the money has to come from somewhere else.

Tommy recommended we contact FUNimation and see if they will foot the bill with the idea of using it on their future releases as a bonus extra. But I've contacted them several, several times, and nobody has returned my phone calls or emails.

So I asked if I (or we) could pay for it all and have them send the music to me. He said he will get in touch with the legal department and see if this is possible.

[atm5508]

If it ends up being possible, I don't think we'll have any problem raising the money here. No idea what's on the tape, but my curiosity will certainly get me to contribute

[superrayman3]

I received another follow up email from Tommy.

He said that digitizing the music would probably cost between $100 to $200. Harmony Gold said they won't pay for it because there's no financial incentive, so the money has to come from somewhere else.

I actually saw that one comming although I can't really blame them for not wanting to pay for it without recouping the losses it's still a bummer nonetheless.

Tommy recommended we contact FUNimation and see if they will foot the bill with the idea of using it on their future releases as a bonus extra. But I've contacted them several, several times, and nobody has returned my phone calls or emails.

As far as I can tell it would seem the only way to get the message through at all would be to go to an anime expo and talk to a FUNi rep and have them pass the message to the higher ups.

So I asked if I (or we) could pay for it all and have them send the music to me. He said he will get in touch with the legal department and see if this is possible.

When you get an answer let us know because if it's possible you can expect a contribution from me although i'd really like to know what's on the tape beforehand so i'll know what exactly i'm donating for.

[DerekPadula]

Tommy’s so cool. I just emailed him with a quick follow up and he calls me right back to chat, at 10 pm. We spoke for about 20 minutes.

Here’s the deal...

The legal team won’t deliver the music to a group of fans (or a single fan) because a group cannot be responsible for any royalty issues or audits that may occur in the future by composers or musicians. Only a legal business could do so. I offered myself (since I own a business), and he suggested I would have to write a business proposal with projected risk and pay off, and a bunch of other stuff, to convince the legal department. Or we could form our own company as a representation of our interests.

FUNimation is much lower risk and they are established, so the legal team would prefer to work with them instead.

But then Tommy remembered who the composer of the Harmony Gold dub music was. Randall Armage, who Tommy said is a really nice guy and very successful now, as he’s a VP of Universal Music Group. Tommy doesn’t think he would even mind that we made these discs or gave the music away.

Tommy said that if they had the music, then Harmony Gold should be able to press 1,000 discs themselves, like they’ve done with Robotech, for $6.99 each. Except for the intro track because they keep screaming “Dragon Ball” on the track, which is a registered trademark owned by FUNimation.

Although we still don’t know what’s on it. He said the tape is a ¼” tape, which means that there are most likely 4 audio tracks. There’s no telling what they are or how long each track is. It might not even be music. It could be voice acting sessions, bloopers, an audio technician’s notes, or something else that hit the cutting room floor. There’s no way to know.

The only possibility of using the intro track, and this is a long shot, is if the 4 audio tracks contain separate layers of instruments, with a separate vocal track. If so, they can separate all the tracks, remove the vocal, and flatten the others to produce an “instrumental” version.

Even if it were all music, they couldn’t release their CD and call it “Dragon Ball Music” because of the legal ramifications with FUNi. They’d have to call it something generic, like “Anime Action Music!”

All of this means that once again we’re left with getting FUNimation’s approval if we want it published. Otherwise it would just go to one company / person (i.e. me or someone else here, who could not distribute it). I guess I have to keep trying to reach Adam Sheehan or Lance Heskell. Tommy says Adam is more likely to return my calls, and that I should say something like, “Harmony Gold has music they’d like to give you.” And he offered to be on a conference call or speak to them on our behalf, which is cool.

The last possibility is this. Every 2 or 3 years, Harmony gold accrues a bunch of random tapes that they need digitized by an expert. They let these random tapes sit there until enough have accrued, and then they send them out as a batch with a flat project fee. He said he’d gladly add this tape to the pile and we could get it digitized then.

So if nothing works out with FUNimation, we’ll at least find out in 2 or 3 years!

That’s where we’re at, guys. Can you believe we've been working on this for over 3 months now?! In any case, I’ll do my best with FUNi.

[superrayman3]

Tommy’s so cool. I just emailed him with a quick follow up and he calls me right back to chat, at 10 pm. We spoke for about 20 minutes.

Here’s the deal...

The legal team won’t deliver the music to a group of fans (or a single fan) because a group cannot be responsible for any royalty issues or audits that may occur in the future by composers or musicians. Only a legal business could do so. I offered myself (since I own a business), and he suggested I would have to write a business proposal with projected risk and pay off, and a bunch of other stuff, to convince the legal department. Or we could form our own company as a representation of our interests.

I had a feeling that something like that needed to be done to get anywhere with this.

FUNimation is much lower risk and they are established, so the legal team would prefer to work with them instead.

Well that's a resonable thought.

But then Tommy remembered who the composer of the Harmony Gold dub music was. Randall Armage, who Tommy said is a really nice guy and very successful now, as he’s a VP of Universal Music Group. Tommy doesn’t think he would even mind that we made these discs or gave the music away.

I think he should check with Randall Armage just to be on the safe side.

Tommy said that if they had the music, then Harmony Gold should be able to press 1,000 discs themselves, like they’ve done with Robotech, for $6.99 each. Except for the intro track because they keep screaming “Dragon Ball” on the track, which is a registered trademark owned by FUNimation.

Well that's to be expected considering like you said Dragon Ball is owned by FUNimation so the intro couldn't be used since it says Dragon Ball a lot.

Although we still don’t know what’s on it. He said the tape is a ¼” tape, which means that there are most likely 4 audio tracks. There’s no telling what they are or how long each track is. It might not even be music. It could be voice acting sessions, bloopers, an audio technician’s notes, or something else that hit the cutting room floor. There’s no way to know.

I personally hope its the complete dub track for the movie's but if it's something else I don't mind

The only possibility of using the intro track, and this is a long shot, is if the 4 audio tracks contain separate layers of instruments, with a separate vocal track. If so, they can separate all the tracks, remove the vocal, and flatten the others to produce an “instrumental” version.

Personally that would kinda kill the purpose of the theme considering we're trying to get as much of the original HG dub material to FUNimation as we can.

Even if it were all music, they couldn’t release their CD and call it “Dragon Ball Music” because of the legal ramifications with FUNi. They’d have to call it something generic, like “Anime Action Music!”

That's a given although they might be able to use a title like the HG Unreleased Track's Collection.

All of this means that once again we’re left with getting FUNimation’s approval if we want it published. Otherwise it would just go to one company / person (i.e. me or someone else here, who could not distribute it). I guess I have to keep trying to reach Adam Sheehan or Lance Heskell. Tommy says Adam is more likely to return my calls, and that I should say something like, “Harmony Gold has music they’d like to give you.” And he offered to be on a conference call or speak to them on our behalf, which is cool.

I'll try and get in contact with FUNimation and see if anything can be done.

The last possibility is this. Every 2 or 3 years, Harmony gold accrues a bunch of random tapes that they need digitized by an expert. They let these random tapes sit there until enough have accrued, and then they send them out as a batch with a flat project fee. He said he’d gladly add this tape to the pile and we could get it digitized then.

So if nothing works out with FUNimation, we’ll at least find out in 2 or 3 years!

I would only consider doing something like that as a last resort option

That’s where we’re at, guys. Can you believe we've been working on this for over 3 months now?! In any case, I’ll do my best with FUNi.

I wish you the best of luck Derek I'll try and help out to but I don't know how much I can do.

[TheBlackPaladin]

You are all sorts of awesome, Derek! Tell you what, my guess is that the reason FUNimation hasn't gotten back to you is because...well, it's just you who tried to contact them, right? Well, perhaps it's petition time. If more people contact them, it might get somewhere. Adam himself said that FUNimation does listen to popular demand if it's strong enough, and that they licensed "Hetalia" almost entirely because of the demand for it by fans. Can anybody set up a petition on one of those automated petition websites?

[kei17]

Surprisingly, they referred to the name 'Son Goku' in their script. These clips are from episode 21 of the HG-based Mexican Spanish dub.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AdfAoOLTo0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J3It30Pq9o

[G1Ravage]

Surprisingly, they referred to the name 'Son Goku' in their script. These clips are from episode 21 of the HG-based Mexican Spanish dub.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AdfAoOLTo0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J3It30Pq9o

Wow. What a slap in the face....

[Puto]

The script for those clips is completely weird.

- Surasai? Hm... Son Goku Surasai! Answer! Son Goku Surasai! Hm? One, two, three... This is too weird.
- Uh... Sorry, but that's the name of the referee..
- Oh, theat's right, that's right. I mean, who's Zero? Who's Zero?
- Me!

First fight: Bacterian vs. Pachito (?)
Second fight: Jackie Chun vs. Zedaki!
Third fight: Ranfan vs. Nam!
Fourth fight: Son Goku--- uh, Zero vs Giran!

[TheBlackPaladin]

Ya know...something just occurred to me. I'll be the first to say that this has almost no chance of happening for reasons that should be obvious, but then again, I never thought Derek would be able to uncover as much info as he did about the HG dub, so who knows, right?

Perhaps it may yet be possible to find the HG dub by going through the Spanish side of things. If this Spanish dub is based on the HG dub, then presumably they received the HG dub footage to dub over. What exactly was the name of the Spanish dubbing company in this case? And is it possible that they still have the HG dub footage lying around in a vault somewhere? Like I said, almost no chance of happening, but Derek's efforts have made me question just how "absurd" some efforts are. I thought when this thread first started out that it would be a two-or-three post thread that ended with the usual, "Harmony Gold dubbed in the late 80's, almost none of the footage survives, almost nothing is known about it. Done." Clearly I was wrong, though!

[Akumaito Beam]

Son Goku was the Budokai announcer's name in the harmony gold dub!? That is literally the best thing.

I have never been so impressed by a forum's ability to dig up info so quickly, efficiently and professionally. Way to go guys, you're the baddest dudes in the galaxy.