Power of SSJ Gogeta

[Mystic Gohan]

This shouldn't count as a versus thread, so I just made a new topic. There are totally different opinions on the power of hypothetical Buu arc Gogeta at the other two forums I go to. At Neoseeker, everybody says that SSj3 Gogeta would get stomped by Gotenks-Buu, because he stated that he didn't think a Metamorian Gokhan could beat him, which should be equal to Gogeta.

However at Pojo, most believe that SSj Gogeta could defeat Gohan-Buu as easily as Vegito. I personally take to Pojo's side. Was wondering what your opinion is.

[Kaboom]

"Way stronger than Janemba" and "not as strong as Vegetto" is the best anyone can really say for sure. Goku/Vegeta fusions are typically just strongly implied to be in a league all of their own. So even if Gogeta doesn't quite stack up to Vegetto simply due to being the product of an inferior Fusion method, he's still probably stronger than everyone else. Only SSj3 Gotenks or Ultimate Gohan might be able to rival him.

As for what Gotenks-Boo thinks, he's probably not trustworthy. He still thought he'd somehow win later when Vegetto was knocking him around effortlessly. We can probably just assume he's talking out of his butt due to typical villain cockiness bordering on denial, just like when Freeza kept claiming he was the strongest in the universe despite Super Saiyan Goku punching his face in.

Personally, the assumption I usually make is that whatever form Vegetto could do something at, Gogeta would require one form higher. Vegetto spanked Gohan-Boo with only SSj1, but Gogeta might require SSj2. Gogeta in GT presumably needed Super Saiyan 4 to smack Yi Xing Long around, but Vegetto would probably fare just fine with SSj3, or maybe even SSj2 or SSj1 or base.

[Mystic Gohan]

I don't think the gap between gogeta and vegito should be that large. There can be different interpretations to the potara being better. The only thing differing them is the rival boost imo. I could see ssj gogeta stomping gohan-buu easily.

[CatouttaHell]

Well Gotenks-Boo and Gohan-Boo both consider Gogeta/Gokan to be someone they can beat, and there's no reason to doubt them since their statements are never contradicted IMO.

It's also worth noting that Son Goku only talks about Potara fusion inside Boo until they revert Gohan-Boo to Evil Boo, after which he finally brings up Metamorian.

Considering SSjin Goten is (IMO) implied to be equal to or greater than SSjin Teen Gohan (which is also stated in the Daizenshuu) before the RoSaT, and Base Gotenks (Post-RoSaT) is stated by three characters to be a good deal above SSjin Gotenks (Pre,) it's likely they got an absolutely gargantuan increase in the RoSaT.

SSjin Goten is probably 90% of SSjin Goku at worst Post-RoSaT IMO. He could even be above him if you believe Gogeta gets a rivals boost that could compensate for that, as one guy on DBZF has suggested that.

Personally I go by:

Gohan-Boo - 2.5
Gotenks-Boo - 2.25
SSjin 3 Gogeta - 1.75
Ultimate Gohan - 1.5
SSjin 3 Gotenks - 1.25
Evil Boo - 1

The way Gohan-Boo words his statement about Gogeta it sounds like him battling Vegeta alone and battling Gogeta would work out the exact same way, so there should be a one-shot gap between them IMO.

Base Vegetto would probably one-shot SSjin 3 Gogeta IMO. I personally take Gohan-Boo's shock at sensing Base Vegetto's power to mean that it was greater than anything he'd expect from Gogeta.

[Mystic Gohan]

How the hell would Buu know anything about gogeta's power? Cool there statements were never contradicted. Explain to me why Gotenks-Buu tried to stop the fusion if he was sure they wouldn't stop him. Statement Contradicted

Well what other option would goku have? If he didn't have the potara, when he did fuse with vegeta, he probably would have tried the dance.

We can debate this all day. A sparring match doesn't prove anything. Consider this. Would you try to hurt your little brother? Would your little brother try and hurt you? You and me both agree that if you use the daiz, you should use everything, so don't pull the daiz card. Base Gotenks(post)>ssj gotenks(pre) can be explained by Piccolo's comment. Small gain individully makes a big gain fused. Never contradicted, so fact right?

Refer to above posts.

[Son_Gohan]

Well Gotenks-Boo and Gohan-Boo both consider Gogeta/Gokan to be someone they can beat, and there's no reason to doubt them since their statements are never contradicted IMO.

It sounds to me as if you're putting words in his mouth. Majin Buu simply expresses "fusion" in general, which entails no specificity on however way he achieves it. Therefore, Vegetto is included in those preconceptions. When you consider the context of the scene itself, Goku wasn't trying to fuse through the same method Goten & Trunks did, so it isn't even as relevant to Gogeta respectively.

[dbgtFO]

I personally take Gohan-Boo's shock at sensing Base Vegetto's power to mean that it was greater than anything he'd expect from Gogeta.

I agree.

Explain to me why Gotenks-Buu tried to stop the fusion if he was sure they wouldn't stop him. Statement Contradicted

Gotenks was about to defuse inside of him.

Anyway, I think Gogeta at full power should be about the same as Gohan-Buu. That's what I get out of Vegetto being surprised about trouncing Buu so easily.
I also think Gogeta's exactly twice as strong as Gotenks.

[Necrosaber]

Personally, the assumption I usually make is that whatever form Vegetto could do something at, Gogeta would require one form higher. Vegetto spanked Gohan-Boo with only SSj1, but Gogeta might require SSj2. Gogeta in GT presumably needed Super Saiyan 4 to smack Yi Xing Long around, but Vegetto would probably fare just fine with SSj3, or maybe even SSj2 or SSj1 or base.

Well to be fair, it's not like he powered up to SSJ4 to tackle Yi Xing Long. Goku and Vegeta were already there. With that form he utterly shat on him. I don't think it's impossible to think SSJ3 would've been enough.

[Mystic Gohan]

He didn't know that gotenks , because even gotenks didn't know when hewas going to defuse. His words more or ."I don't think a fusion will stop me, but i will stop it anyway". I think that is a contradiction.
'

[dprez]

I have Ssj Gogeta around Gohan Boo's level. It seams to fit in with the theory of Vegetto's base = Gogeta's Ssj and so on.

[dbgtFO]

He didn't know that gotenks , because even gotenks didn't know when hewas going to defuse.

Gotenks not knowing =/= Buu not knowing. At one point he even remarked that he had a specific amount of time left, showing that he does have a good idea of, when the fusion is going to end.

His words more or ."I don't think a fusion will stop me, but i will stop it anyway". I think that is a contradiction.
'

I would personally buy that logic, when he is out to find Goku and that other guy(Vegeta), but not in this case.

[Goten Forever]

...Imagine the power of Potara SSJ 'Gotenks'/'Trunten'.
Would he be debatably stronger or weaker than SSJ2 Gogeta

[jackjack]

I usually see him on par or weaker than SSJ2 Gotenks (on par or weaker than Boohan is the absolute highest I could personally imagine).

[Piccolo Daimao]

I think he's slightly weaker than Vegetto, since I believe the biggest part of why Metamoran fusion wasn't as good as Potara was due to the dance, time limit and height/power requirements. But they're still both basically the same concept, only with different methods.

[Bussani]

There can be different interpretations to the potara being better.

Well, if you go by the guides, there are two separate entries that don't leave it very open to interpretation.

The principle is the same as the Fusion technique, but the effect is greater than Fusion. Furthermore, since this union cannot be cancelled, it doesn't have the weakness of running out of time and the two returning to normal.

To use them, the two people who will merge simply have to each take one of the two earrings and put in on their left or right ear, respectively. Furthermore, after merging the power is greater than with Fusion.

But if you go by the manga alone then it is quite open to interpretation.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

There can be different interpretations to the potara being better.

Well, if you go by the guides, there are two separate entries that don't leave it very open to interpretation.

The principle is the same as the Fusion technique, but the effect is greater than Fusion. Furthermore, since this union cannot be cancelled, it doesn't have the weakness of running out of time and the two returning to normal.

To use them, the two people who will merge simply have to each take one of the two earrings and put in on their left or right ear, respectively. Furthermore, after merging the power is greater than with Fusion.

But if you go by the manga alone then it is quite open to interpretation.

And if we also go by what the guidbooks have said about Gogeta's & Vegetto's powers, we have:
SSJ(4) Gogeta being several dozens stronger than SSJ(4) Goku or Vegeta
Goku's battle power is multiplied with Vegeta's battle power. So, we have Vegetto = Goku X Vegeta.
Even the video games' what-if stories have Vegetto winning Gogeta, in Ultimate Butouden & Raging Blast. In Ultimate Butouden Vegetto wins Gogeta. In Raging Blast, in the first round, Gogeta wins, but in the second, Vegetto wins. Perhaps Vegetto was holding back in the first round? But then again, the video games can do whatever they want.
If we take those information literally, SSJ Vegetto >>>>>...>>> SSJ Gogeta.

[Goten Forever]

Wait, where does it say that potarra is (a)x(b)?
If that is the case what is Fusion? It's greater than (a)+(b). But it is not the same strength as Vegetto?
Maybe it's 2(a+b) for Fusion and (a)x(b) for potara? Which, for the latter, would be an absolutely enormous amount if there was a SSJ4 Vegetto. Would the world explode? Ha.

[hleV]

Wait, where does it say that potarra is (a)x(b)?

SEG says "Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto". While the "Battle Power" term isn't mentioned for that particular formula, it is mentioned in the context. Note that such formula is only officially given for Vegetto, and not other Potara Fusions. In fact, it may not even be a formula, but rather how Vegetto compares to Goku and Vegeta separately.

[Mystic Gohan]

For everyone using guidebooks to support there POV. Please don't be a cherrypicker. If you use a guidebook, use everything. Don't just use what you like.

[VegettoEX]

For everyone using guidebooks to support there POV. Please don't be a cherrypicker. If you use a guidebook, use everything. Don't just use what you like.

Why exactly should that be the rule?

I don't really have any vested interest one way or the other; just curious. I wouldn't expect someone to take every single comment ever stated by every single character in the manga as solid 100% indisputable truthiness (especially from this author and his writing/planning style).

Both the manga (the original version and even early versions of the kanzenban) have a couple minor mistakes (updated battle powers, typo corrections, different kanji for special techniques). There are a couple minor mistakes in the various guide books (chapter numbers, Bra born in two different years). How do you reconcile these different tidbits of information, even within the same publication (manga to manga, guide book to guide book)?

So again, if we can say that perhaps someone was just boasting with regard to their strength compared to another character in the manga's dialogue (they said they could win, but everything that unfolds showcases they never would have), how is that any more or less valuable of a statement than something a guide book says (or maybe just simply suggests)? Do you just, as you stated, cherry-pick who you want to believe and how you want to interpret it? How could you ever trust anything that character ever says again? Wouldn't that just be cherry-picking?

At the end of the day, it all seems very much up to personal interpretation, and so long as you clearly define what you want to accept and use for your interpretation and analysis (and describe it that way to others), I don't see much of a problem.