Moments when Toriyama's writing method really impressed you

[rereboy]

Tenshinhan is a genius who is capable of copying complex techniques just after seeing them once in a short period of time (if not immediately). He should have been able to learn the Kaioken.

Not at all. He copied the Kamehameha because it was, as he called it, a simple technique to copy. That isn't a trait exclusive to him. Goku did it after he first saw it and before he could do any other ki attacks, Yamcha did it with training, Kurilin did it on the fly against his match with Chaozu. There is nothing about Tenshinhan copying the Kamehameha that makes him any more a genius or capable of copying "complex" techniques than anyone else.

He copied the mafuba in a day or two I believe. So yeah... He copied a "simple" technique like the Kamehameha immediately (and unlike the others who did the same, he actually created a very powerful Kamehameh,a like he had been doing it for years) and he only required a day or two to copy a complex technique like the mafuba, which he only witnessed once while under the effects of a sleeping/paralyzing gas (which certainly numbed his senses to a degree). Like I said, genius.

[Saiga]

He had to train and practice the Mafuba to get it right, we don't even know if it would succeed when used on Piccolo because he only practised the motions. The Kamehameha ordeal means nothing, the blast Kurilin used nearly took out Chaozu in one hit and he had only just done it. There's no indication that Tenshinhan's was any better, but if it was it could simply be attributed to him being stronger and having prior ki control unlike Kurilin.

[rereboy]

He had to train and practice the Mafuba to get it right, we don't even know if it would succeed when used on Piccolo because he only practised the motions.

He stated that he had mastered it and we have no reason to doubt it. Otherwise he wouldn't risk facing Piccolo unprepared.

There is also no reason to dismiss this achievement. As far as copying techniques goes, this is the second or third greatest achievement in the series, I believe. The first one belongs to Cell, who managed to copy Goku's teleportation after seeing it a handful of times. This is nº 1 because nobody else ever copied his technique. Besides that moment, there is nothing more impressive than Tenshinhan being able to copy the mafuba in a couple of days after only having seen it once under the influence of sleeping/paralyzing gas, except maybe Buu copying Kaioshin's teleportation after seeing it once while the Earth exploded.

The Kamehameha ordeal means nothing, the blast Kurilin used nearly took out Chaozu in one hit and he had only just done it. There's no indication that Tenshinhan's was any better, but if it was it could simply be attributed to him being stronger and having prior ki control unlike Kurilin.

My point was the Mafuba. But there is no reason to dismiss his Kamehameha either. Roshi himself stated that it was "huge".

[Saiga]

He didn't actually ever use the technique on a target though (or he'd be dead). All he did was copy the motions. Even if he did master it perfectly, we have no idea if copying the Mafuba is hard seeing as Kami copied it without even being present. I'd say that's FAR more impressive.

[CaBrPi]

He didn't actually ever use the technique on a target though (or he'd be dead). All he did was copy the motions. Even if he did master it perfectly, we have no idea if copying the Mafuba is hard seeing as Kami copied it without even being present. I'd say that's FAR more impressive.

He probably still saw it.

He did see Cell absorbing people later on, after all.

[Saiga]

He didn't actually ever use the technique on a target though (or he'd be dead). All he did was copy the motions. Even if he did master it perfectly, we have no idea if copying the Mafuba is hard seeing as Kami copied it without even being present. I'd say that's FAR more impressive.

He probably still saw it.

He did see Cell absorbing people later on, after all.

I know. But he wasn't even close to the scene, so I'd say it's more of an achievement than what Tenshinhan did.

[rereboy]

He didn't actually ever use the technique on a target though (or he'd be dead). All he did was copy the motions. Even if he did master it perfectly, we have no idea if copying the Mafuba is hard seeing as Kami copied it without even being present. I'd say that's FAR more impressive.

Kami saw the technique being performed twice from his lookout (he can see everything from there) and had hundreds of years to copy it. Not exactly far more impressive .

I know. But he wasn't even close to the scene, so I'd say it's more of an achievement than what Tenshinhan did.

You do realize that Kami probably saw things from his lookout just like he was right in the middle of action, right? His reactions during the Cell arc tell us that is likely the case. So, the distance is not impressive at all.

[CaBrPi]

To be on topic, I was always pretty impressed by Kaio-sama's plan to save everyone at the end of the Freeza arc. Quite the gamble, but it paid off.

[matt0044]

Okay, can some of you guys save your discussion for a more relevant topic. I don't want this to got off topic. Please.

[matt0044]

Excuse the double post but I wonder if Toriyama actually thought certain things in the long run but wasn't sure how they'd play out. Like Vegeta suspecting Goku has become a Super Saiyan upon him making small work of the Ginyu Force. Did Toriyama write that to have something to use later on for Freeza and Goku's eventually fight but didn't fully work it out until the twist was revealed?

[dbgtFO]

Sounds likely. Also the Super Saiyan legend was referenced even further back in volume 22 after Freeza had told Zarbon to retrieve Vegeta's broken body.

I think, while Toriyama did in fact write at the seat of his pants, major plot points like that is something, he would be able to keep in mind for later on and hint at way before it's revealed. Toriyama did for example think Piccolo was an alien, as soon as Kami was introduced, which was way before it was revealed, though that doesn't automatically mean he had planned on their trip to Namek in advance or anything.

[Codarik]

I recently bought the first 4 vizbigs, when I read it, it felt like I was really seeing it for the first time, I've seen the series a billion times, so I knew what was going to happen next, but there was many times were I got chills and was excited to read on. As for Toriyama's writing, the switch from the androids being the threat and then the sudden change to Cell being the major threat was genius. It was in your face and totally wasn't expecting that.

[SylentEcho]

I recently bought the first 4 vizbigs, when I read it, it felt like I was really seeing it for the first time, I've seen the series a billion times, so I knew what was going to happen next, but there was many times were I got chills and was excited to read on. As for Toriyama's writing, the switch from the androids being the threat and then the sudden change to Cell being the major threat was genius. It was in your face and totally wasn't expecting that.

That happens to me too! It feels like the first time. It never happens to me with other manga (except Berserk for obvious reasons). When I read Naruto, Bleach or One Piece, I just want to watch the anime instead.

[sangofe]

We all know Toriyama liked to write by the seat of his pants and how it was impressive how certain things in many arcs were set up so well with neat pay offs as though he planned it but not really. There were times when this didn't work but many times it really did. Especially in Z.

I like how there was never (or rarely) a Deus Ex Machina for the final battle.

So, discuss away.

When you say "writing method", do you mean "drawing method", the dialogues, or the way of telling the history combined with the writhing of the dialogues, and the way he drew stuff?

[matt0044]

Anyone else want to speak up?

[Black Mask]

Probably The Moment when Kurririn got Impaled by Freeza's Horn In second Form. The Intense Build up to that scene was incredible Because You were unaware of what Individual he was going to Strike at. I actually would have Liked that Scene even More if Kurririn was assumed dead for a longer peroid of time up until Freeza's final Transformation.

[matt0044]

Probably The Moment when Kurririn got Impaled by Freeza's Horn In second Form. The Intense Build up to that scene was incredible Because You were unaware of what Individual he was going to Strike at. I actually would have Liked that Scene even More if Kurririn was assumed dead for a longer peroid of time up until Freeza's final Transformation.

That might've been too long since nobody could survive that long and Vegeta wouldn't have anyone to almost kill him.

[Piccolo Daimao]

To be on topic, I was always pretty impressed by Kaio-sama's plan to save everyone at the end of the Freeza arc. Quite the gamble, but it paid off.

I always thought that ending part of the Freeza arc was such a clusterfuck. The Great Elder shouldn't have even been revived, but Toriyama could've easily avoided this if he just didn't introduce the rule of "can't revive if death by natural causes".

[matt0044]

To be on topic, I was always pretty impressed by Kaio-sama's plan to save everyone at the end of the Freeza arc. Quite the gamble, but it paid off.

I always thought that ending part of the Freeza arc was such a clusterfuck. The Great Elder shouldn't have even been revived, but Toriyama could've easily avoided this if he just didn't introduce the rule of "can't revive if death by natural causes".

Yeah, Kami could've said that it's possible to return them for a limited amount of time but it hadn't been tried before.

[Pafupafu]

I think Toriyama really showed a ton of impressive writing when he was able to essentially re-define Son Goku as a character once he introduced the Saiyan race and its history. It was an immense feat to pull off because making your main protagonist "less-human" can really alienate your audience from relating to him. I believe this was semi-relieved by the fact that the Oozaru form was essentially dropped after the Saiyan arc and Goku always considered himself an Earthling.

I also really loved the way he was able to make Piccolo and Vegeta into completely likeable protagonists after long arcs with them as the MAIN antagonists. It is a fun treat that only lengthy series can contain.

Even up until the last chapter of the series, there was always something creative in his style and I WISH he had a hand in some of the writing of GT. The last anime series just has so many holes and is devoid of anything substantially creative in the series. It's like the writers said "Hey Toriyama did this once so let's just do it again and hope it works twice."

If the writers of GT were unafraid to take more risks, the series could have lasted twice as long as it did.