Ki Variations of Freeza

[Dayspring]

It's still listed as 300k/15million and 6million/12million because that's reasonable.

Hmm... after rereading volumes 26-28, the daizenshuu seems to make sense based off Toriyama's work. Note that once Freeza reaches his third form, DB reverts to its classic "he's stronger than he is" mode of story-telling, so Toriyama didn't have to worry about PLs. However, what I'm 99% sure the daizenshuu did was notice the following:

-Completely ignoring the daizenshuu, we know Piccolo to be exceptionally close to, if not stronger than, Freeza's strength of "over 1 million."

-We also know that Vegeta, after being healed by Dende, is so much greater than Piccolo that he can not only see Freeza's finger beams, but dodge them as well. Goku, unlike Vegeta, is even capable of blocking Freeza's finger beams. With this we know that Goku has completely surpassed the 1 million PL mark, and it is here that the daizenshuu clocks him at 3 million.

-We know that kaioken multiplies the user by the number of times it is used. Ergo, kaioken x20 got Goku a PL WELL OVER 20 million. Since it's obvious that Freeza at 50% was equal to Goku at Kaioken x20, we can also assume that Freeza at 50% also had a PL WELL OVER 20 million.

-Since we know that Freeza was only at half strength, simple multiplication will tell us that Freeza at 100% has a PL WELL OVER 40 million.

-Since SSJ Goku is obviously stronger than Freeza at 100%, we can also conclude that SSJ Goku has a PL WELL OVER 40 million, which would indicate that SSJ is much stronger than kaioken x40, the daizenshuu listing it as being equal to kaioken x50 (or Oozaru x5, if you prefer ).

Here's where the daizenshuu's PLs come in: Goku at "much stronger than a PL that was waaaaay over 1 million" was estimated at 3 million. The rest was simple math. 3 million x 20 (kaiokens) gets Freeza's halfway mark of 60 million. Twice that is his top at 120 million. Since SSJ Goku is obviously greater than 120 million, which is 40 times greater than his 3 million base, the daizenshuu lists SSJ as multiplying the user's strength by 50, which gets Goku's PL of 150 million.

[DBZ MAN]

(These are the same in the Japanese Daizenshuu.)

i have this exact book! its great isin't it.
anyway sorry, carry on. o yeah, also if you look at the tenkaichi trailer, it shows goku using the scouter and everytime you see him transform, his power level is recorded
SSJ: 180, 000, 000 (with cell)
SSJ2: 360, 000, 000
SSJ3: 1, 080, 000, 000

[Dayspring]

No! No no no! DBZ Man: proper punctuation, proper grammar! No hypothetical PLs either, please, the purpose of this thread is to discuss the validity of the daizenshuu's PL section for Freeza and Goku.

[Duo]

If anyone here can disprove Daysprings 2nd newest post in this thread, I will have a heart attack.

[Dayspring]

If anyone here can disprove Daysprings 2nd newest post in this thread, I will have a heart attack.

Thanks. I can accept arguing that the PLs should be lower than the daizenshuu's, but the fact of the matter is that common sense blows away the thought that the mistaken 12 and 15 million "makes more sense". It's all math, which might explain why kaiokens, and PLs in general, were henceforth dropped. As long as we agree that Freeza and SSJ Goku are beyond the 40 million mark, I'm happy.

[Great Saiyaman]

40,000,000 is still way too weak man. Goku clearly surpasses Vegeta who had to be at atleast 2,000,000. So, even if Goku were only 2,000,000 (which he couldnt be anyway since he was not even with Vegeta), a 2 mill would still make him a 100 Million at SSJ.

[Dayspring]

40,000,000 is still way too weak man. Goku clearly surpasses Vegeta who had to be at atleast 2,000,000. So, even if Goku were only 2,000,000 (which he couldnt be anyway since he was not even with Vegeta), a 2 mill would still make him a 100 Million at SSJ.

That's partially my point. If we ignore the daizenshuu completely, the only conclusion we can come to is that SSJ Goku is WAY over 40 million. Personally I agree with the daizenshuu for all PLs except Nappa's max, and Radditz's PL given in the PL section (even other sections give multiple references to Radditz being at 1,200). Anyway, my view is that Vegeta was in the 2 million range, and that Goku is another half to full million more. The daizenshuu gave a full million higher. Everything from there made sense when doing calculations.

[Great Saiyaman]

Correct. I thought by you saying that he was over 40 Million, you mean he was around that general area. But acctually this is one area where the Daiz did such a great job. I think they really did their math. But also, let's not forget about one of their other screw up's (that you left out).....Krllin & Gohan at like 18,000 & 17,000.....when they both beat the crap out of Ginyu in Goku's body (23,000)

[Dayspring]

Correct. I thought by you saying that he was over 40 Million, you mean he was around that general area. But acctually this is one area where the Daiz did such a great job. I think they really did their math. But also, let's not forget about one of their other screw up's (that you left out).....Krllin & Gohan at like 18,000 & 17,000.....when they both beat the crap out of Ginyu in Goku's body (23,000)

Gohan was at 14,000 and received an uuber-zenkai. Krillin at 13,000 is believable considering he wasn't taking the full force of Ginyu's attacks and since his attacks were doing no damage to Ginyu. I think if it were to go all out with just Ginyu vs Krillin, the tide would have quickly changed. Also, since everybody gets stronger from experience, then he's probably gotten a human-classed zenkai as well, so my guess is between 13,000 and 14,000 when he fights Ginyu.

[Great Saiyaman]

No way. Krillin practically made a joke of Ginyu. Toriyama doesn;t just throw those things in there for fun. I highly doubt the 2 of them were below 24,000.

[Dayspring]

No way. Krillin practically made a joke of Ginyu. Toriyama doesn;t just throw those things in there for fun. I highly doubt the 2 of them were below 24,000.

Looking back at the fight against Guldo and Recoom, however, it's not that far off. Vegeta had his PL suppressed to far under 20,000. Krillin and Gohan's PLs were considered as gnats compared to him, both listed as "around/above 10,000." I don't think Krillin could have gotten a huge enough zenkai, being a human and all. Gohan I can fully agree with though.

[Duo]

Vegeta, right before being attacked by Stage 1 Freeza - "None of you seems to have realized...how these Earthlings battle strengths keep rising! The young one has powers in him he can't even dream of! While I, Freeza, slowly become what you dread most...the Super Saiyan...!!"

The keyword here is "Keeps". He indicates that the Earthlings battle powers have risen more than once. This suggests that they have continually been increasing in power since the Great Elder released their sleeping power.

So, Kuririn and Gohan may have been weaker than 20,000 against Reacoom, but by the time they fought Ginyu in Goku's body, they had both hit at least 24,000.

[Great Saiyaman]

Acctually I think he may have been reffering to the battle on earth up to early Namek & then the Guru release.