Was Gohan SSJ2 against Dabura, Majin Buu's Shell, Z sword

[Super Vegetto]

I want to finally see if Dabura was under Perfect Cell and if Gohan ever used SSJ2 after World Tournament...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The manga always have sparks in SSJ2 & SSJ3, the Daizenshuu mentions that Gohan goes SSJ2 only in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai (and against Broli in Movie 10), so no he wasn't.

[Super Vegetto]

The manga always have sparks in SSJ2 & SSJ3, the Daizenshuu mentions that Gohan goes SSJ2 only in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai (and against Broli in Movie 10), so no he wasn't.

So Vegetto was ssj2 and Daizenshuu mentions that Gohan goes SSJ2 only in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai ?,,i know that Gohan was SSJ2 against Broly but after World Tournament ? Can you show me proof or link ?

[Zephyr]

I don't recall which ones, but I know one of the Daizenshuu says he only uses SSj2 at the tournament, while another directly contradicts that and says he uses it in the fight with Dabura.

[CatouttaHell]

No, he wasn't. In the manga he had a FPSSjin aura in all of those instances. There's obvious differences between SSjin and SSjin 2 auras in the manga, as Son specifically shows right before he goes SSjin 3.

[Super Vegetto]

If he was FPSSJ then Dubura is pretty weak.
So its Super Perfect Cell >>>>>>>>>Dabura.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So Vegetto was ssj2

No, Vegetto was SSJ. He showed sparks only in his 1st panel, and never again. Perhaps to show his awesomeness?

and Daizenshuu mentions that Gohan goes SSJ2 only in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai ?,,i know that Gohan was SSJ2 against Broly but after World Tournament ? Can you show me proof or link ?

Sure:

During the Tenkaichi Budoukai he transforms at Kibito's request. Because he couldn't gain power from anger and because he hadn't been training, he doesn't have the same battle power as when he defeated Cell.

Now that I read it again, I worded it wrongly. It doesn't say that he only transformed in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai, just refers that he transformed there and shows a picture from there. But my point still stands, that he wasn't a SSJ2 in any other case. Just compare these:

[Super Vegetto]

So Vegetto was ssj2

No, Vegetto was SSJ. He showed sparks only in his 1st panel, and never again. Perhaps to show his awesomeness?

xD

Well this is how i thought before and i will show it as a question:
1. Goku considers Dabura is Super Perfect Cell level opponent and even "a lot stronger than i thought",,he senced Perfect Cell Full power and Buff Perfect Cell,,so he probably senced Super Perfect Cell imo...So did he compered SPC with Dabura ?
2. Gohan has no reason to be holding back against Dabura or did he ?
3. Goku tells Gohan to get mad like with Cell instead of telling him to go ssj2 like at the world tournament ? Gohans strenght is his anger or ?
4. Goku and Vegeta do not wonder why Gohan isnt fighting at full power because he is. Goku said "it aint like hes completely lost yet. let them fight" so Goku thinks Gohans losing but not like he sad "gee Gohans not even at full power yet,,Vegeta let him fight" ?
5. If Goku considers Dabura atleast Perfect Cell level, and he knows his own ssj form was no where near enough to take Cell on, then how is it that Gohan held his own if he was only ssj1 ? And why was Dabura so confident in fighting them all at once ?
6. AT drew Gohan as a Ssj,,In ssj1 his hair is clumpy and more hair strands on his forehead. but in ssj2 its only one bang and more spiked up hair and the serious attitude. So only thing that is missing is lightning ?
7.Now movie 12 and 13..Goku and Vegeta dont have ssj2 aura,,,when Goku starts transforming in movie 12 in ssj3 he starts getting lightning,,,Gohan in movie 8 doesnt have lightning but everything else proves he is ssj2,,,so question is why AT didnt showed Gohans look more like ssj1 where his hair is clumpy and more hair strands on his forehead ? Did he whanted to prove Gohan is way stronger then Dabura in ssj2 so he draws Gohan in fpssj yust to be more challange ?

[dprez]

This is one of those hot debates that has many different view points when the answer is really quite simple imo...

Gohan is Ssj2 once during the entire Boo arc, and it's at the tournament. Toriyama's art clearly shows Gohan's Ssj1 aura compared to Goku and Vegeta's Ssj2 auras mere pages from each other. There are also a few statements here and there telling us Gohan was not at his full power while fighting Dabura or against Majin Boo's shell. I have Dabura roughly equaling the Cell that FPSsj Goku and Gohan fought.

[Rocketman]

Gohan is shown with a regular Super Saiyan's appearance and aura while on the very next page, Goku and Vegeta are fighting with Super Saiyan 2 auras.

If it's a mistake, it's a very, very precise one. Almost deliberate.

[Super Vegetto]

Well this is what i found:
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae13 ... igns-1.jpg
This was probably for movie 10...
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d81/K ... iq8vx4.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d81/K ... v774gn.jpg
Everything is the same,,only lightning is missing...

http://i41.tinypic.com/flyse1.png
http://i39.tinypic.com/2wlu0dc.png
Gohan from ssj2 to ssj1,,eyes and 2 bangs...

But one thing is noticed is that everytime he transforms his bang is on left side which is seen for ssj1 but in world tournament his bang is on right side so that can also be a proof...

But all of you go for lightning to play important factor so Gohan was never ssj2 after world tournament...

[hleV]

But one thing is noticed is that everytime he transforms his bang is on left side which is seen for ssj1 but in world tournament his bang is on right side so that can also be a proof...

No it isn't.

And really, stop double-posting.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

7.Now movie 12 and 13..Goku and Vegeta dont have ssj2 aura,,,when Goku starts transforming in movie 12 in ssj3 he starts getting lightning,,,Gohan in movie 8 doesnt have lightning but everything else proves he is ssj2,,,so question is why AT didnt showed Gohans look more like ssj1 where his hair is clumpy and more hair strands on his forehead ? Did he whanted to prove Gohan is way stronger then Dabura in ssj2 so he draws Gohan in fpssj yust to be more challange ?

Don't add the movies in the mix. In the anime, the auras are never consistent, nor the sparks. That's why we can't tell when/if Vegeta is SSJ2 in the movies & GT, or when/if Gohan is SSJ2 in GT. And Toriyama didn't make the movies, Toei Animation is responsible for the anime.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Kill me. Kill me now.

OK, so here are the facts. Due to his aura, lightning sparks and the fact that he tells Kibito he'll "become a Super Saiyan that has surpassed the Super Saiyan wall", Gohan is Super Saiyan 2 at the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai.

Afterwards, during his battles with Dabra and Fat Boo, he doesn't display a SS2-esque aura or lightning sparks...but the story isn't entirely consistent with how it implies Gohan's level of strength, which is part of the reason why the "Bobbodi's spaceship" mini-arc, or the Boo arc in general, has really piss poor writing. If you want to know why, you can trawl through the archive of billions of threads about how shit the Boo arc's writing was, whether or not Gohan was SS or SS2, which form of Cell could be compared to, etc...

Either way, this issue will never get resolved, and I fully understand why. Toriyama messed up, and he messed up big. I think this is probably one of the biggest mistakes he ever made in the series, simply because I personally don't think it makes any in-universe story-wise sense for Gohan not be a SS2, even if you want to handwave it away with some twisted theory that Gohan hadn't practiced the form or he was scared that he'd fuck up like at the Cell Games...but if that was the case, then why didn't Toriyama explain that or suggest it in the story? Why do Gokuu nor Vegeta even comment on the fact that he's clearly not SS2, but seemingly don't know or ignore it, choosing only to comment on how much power he's lost since he was a kid?

We've been over this shit SO MANY TIMES and gone round in more circles than the world record-breaking hula hoop champion (shitty comparison, I know, but whatever), but who am I to stop people's fun? That is, if people are actually having any fun whatsoever banging on about this for the GAZILLIONTH MOTHERFUCKING TIME.

[Rocketman]

It really makes me wonder if Toriyama just hadn't settled on what "Super Saiyan 2" was yet. If 'SS2' is just 'full power', then it makes perfect since why Goku and Vegeta comment the way they do, for example.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It really makes me wonder if Toriyama just hadn't settled on what "Super Saiyan 2" was yet. If 'SS2' is just 'full power', then it makes perfect since why Goku and Vegeta comment the way they do, for example.

Hmm. Yeah, that's possible too. Back at the Cell Games, readers would probably get the impression that "Super Saiyan 2" was a manifestation of Gohan's hidden power, unexpected even to Gokuu (although he still knew "getting angry" was what would defeat Cell), rather than a new Super Saiyan form, and was exclusive to Gohan. But later, all of a sudden, Gokuu and Vegeta seemingly have it too and it's not all that special.

Like I said: Toriyama. Fatigue. Piss-poor writing.

[sanorin]

Piccolo Daimao, what you wrote is exactly what I think. Toriyama messed up big time not showing Gohan SSJ2 after the tournament, is a huge inconsistency, plot hole if you will, and that's all.

But even if it's the GAZILLIONTH MOTHERFUCKING TIME, it's still the first time for some people. Otherwise there would be no point having this forum, as everything that can be said about Dragon Ball has already been said. There may even be a post talking about the sailboat we see in the background in the bottom right panel of page 30 of Kanzenban volume 31, but for the person who discovers it for the first time is still exciting to come here and talk about it and about the 3 people next to the car, that maybe are going on a sailing trip while Goten, Trunks and Videl are flying over their heads.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Piccolo Daimao, what you wrote is exactly what I think. Toriyama messed up big time not showing Gohan SSJ2 after the tournament, is a huge inconsistency, plot hole if you will, and that's all.

But even if it's the GAZILLIONTH MOTHERFUCKING TIME, it's still the first time for some people. Otherwise there would be no point having this forum, as everything that can be said about Dragon Ball has already been said. There may even be a post talking about the sailboat we see in the background in the bottom right panel of page 30 of Kanzenban volume 31, but for the person who discovers it for the first time is still exciting to come here and talk about it and about the 3 people next to the car, that maybe are going on a sailing trip while Goten, Trunks and Videl are flying over their heads.

I know, but I doubt it's the first time for most people. The way Super Vegetto phrases his OP, using the word "finally", it sounds like he's been musing over this for as long as the rest of us. Unfortunately, we've already had a fuckload of threads like this, so maybe we should just have some big-ass sticky thread analyzing the various arguments.

[sanorin]

That wouldn't be a bad idea, kind of a FAQ, but no one in the world has enough free time (nor life span) to do that.

[Kingdom Heartless]

If he was FPSSJ then Dubura is pretty weak.
So its Super Perfect Cell >>>>>>>>>Dabura.

Well, I can't recall if it's in the manga, but the anime at least stated they were around the same level.

Whether this was referring to Cell at his strongest, I'm not sure.


And it also does make sense that Toriyama hadn't settled on what SSj2 was just yet... it wasn't actually referred by name until the SSj3 transformation was it? And I'm pretty sure that Toriyama hadn't planned on SSj3 at this point.