Is Goku stronger than Gohan in the end of DBZ?

[Pantalones]

According to GT, he's apparently lost the "mystic/ultimate" form and is going Super Saiyan again 15 years after Buu. Since the old Kaioshin's power-up and Super Saiyan are basically two methods of drawing out the same absurd hidden power, you can't have both at the same time... and "mystic/ultimate" is more energy-efficient and supposedly gives even more power than the upper limits of your Super Saiyan potential. There wouldn't be any reason for Gohan to use Super Saiyan if he still had access to that power.

As for whether Gohan is still way stronger than Goku at the "10 years after Z" mark... that depends on whether or not Gohan still has his "mystic/ultimate" power-up by that time. And there's really no evidence pointing out when he lost it (or even that he did lose it in the first place, if you don't count GT.)

If Gohan did lose his new power-up by the "10 years after Z" point, then Goku is definitely stronger. Even if Gohan started training again after losing the boost, Goku would have a head-start (Gohan without the "mystic/ultimate" form would drop down to wherever he was after playing around with the Z-sword, which is... maybe his Cell Games strength at best, which would still be behind Buu saga SSj2 Goku and Vegeta) and it's pretty much guaranteed that Goku would've been training harder than Gohan was.

On the other hand, if Gohan still has his absurd Super-Buu-whupping power from before the 10-year gap, then he's definitely going to be stronger than Goku even after 10 years. Goku was afraid to fight even the initial Super Buu with SSj3, while Gohan was kicking that same Buu around almost effortlessly (and apparently was strong enough to do the same to Piccolo-Buu, if he hadn't gotten absorbed then)... that is an enormous power gap Goku would have to close. So huge it makes the increase that he got during the 7 years after Cell look pretty puny, and that was 7 years of special afterlife training with the gods and super-powerful dead people with weird abilities (that's where he learned fusion, after all)... it's extremely unlikely he could get that much stronger with 10 years of just ordinary training on Earth with no reason to train extra hard or anything.

[Super Vegetto]

According to GT, he's apparently lost the "mystic/ultimate" form and is going Super Saiyan again 15 years after Buu. Since the old Kaioshin's power-up and Super Saiyan are basically two methods of drawing out the same absurd hidden power, you can't have both at the same time... and "mystic/ultimate" is more energy-efficient and supposedly gives even more power than the upper limits of your Super Saiyan potential. There wouldn't be any reason for Gohan to use Super Saiyan if he still had access to that power.

As for whether Gohan is still way stronger than Goku at the "10 years after Z" mark... that depends on whether or not Gohan still has his "mystic/ultimate" power-up by that time. And there's really no evidence pointing out when he lost it (or even that he did lose it in the first place, if you don't count GT.)

I dont go with dbgt logic cuz Goku was on peak in his 40 years but they made him even stronger after time but thats my logic for peak,and even Krillin is brought back to life with Shenron which doesnt make any sence,,so its yust GT logic...Old kai sad that Gohan neads to transform to achive mystic form,,but before that Gohan powers up without Old kai saying to transform into ssj thing,,so it can be possible for him to still go ssj and ssj2,,,my opinion is that ssj transformation would yust be waste of ki...

[CatouttaHell]

According to GT, he's apparently lost the "mystic/ultimate" form and is going Super Saiyan again 15 years after Buu. Since the old Kaioshin's power-up and Super Saiyan are basically two methods of drawing out the same absurd hidden power, you can't have both at the same time... and "mystic/ultimate" is more energy-efficient and supposedly gives even more power than the upper limits of your Super Saiyan potential. There wouldn't be any reason for Gohan to use Super Saiyan if he still had access to that power.

According to the GT Perfect Files, Gohan didn't neglect his training so he most likely did not lose his power-up, just took it even further and gained SSjin and SSjin 2 on top of it IMO.

[In Brightest Day]

I see SSJ3 Goku kind of around the Super Buu/Gotenks ball park by the end of Z, so of course Gohan would still stomp the crap out of his father if he was serious.

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

According to GT, he's apparently lost the "mystic/ultimate" form and is going Super Saiyan again 15 years after Buu. Since the old Kaioshin's power-up and Super Saiyan are basically two methods of drawing out the same absurd hidden power, you can't have both at the same time... and "mystic/ultimate" is more energy-efficient and supposedly gives even more power than the upper limits of your Super Saiyan potential. There wouldn't be any reason for Gohan to use Super Saiyan if he still had access to that power.

According to the GT Perfect Files, Gohan didn't neglect his training so he most likely did not lose his power-up, just took it even further and gained SSjin and SSjin 2 on top of it IMO.

Really? GT Perfect File says that? I find that hard to believe. Gohan doesn't look like he still trains. He looks out of shape.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Really? GT Perfect File says that? I find that hard to believe. Gohan doesn't look like he still trains. He looks out of shape.

Piccolo and Bebi disagreed...

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Really? GT Perfect File says that? I find that hard to believe. Gohan doesn't look like he still trains. He looks out of shape.

Piccolo and Bebi disagreed...

If he really did train, he'd be stronger than Vegeta, and Baby wouldn't need to take over Vegeta.

[Saiga]

If he really did train, he'd be stronger than Vegeta, and Baby wouldn't need to take over Vegeta.

You underestimate GT hax.

Vegeta > Ultimate Gohan because because.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

You underestimate GT hax.

Vegeta > Ultimate Gohan because because.

Exactly! GT's plot unfolds the way it does because that's what Toei wanted. Ta'hell with logic and common sense,

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

You underestimate GT hax.

Vegeta > Ultimate Gohan because because.

Exactly! GT's plot unfolds the way it does because that's what Toei wanted. Ta'hell with logic and common sense,

This isn't to say I follow GT logics, because most of time they never make sense at all. I was just a teensy bitsy surprised that that guide book even mentions that. He looked like he hadn't time for training anyway.

[CatouttaHell]

Really? GT Perfect File says that? I find that hard to believe. Gohan doesn't look like he still trains. He looks out of shape.

Yeah it does:

Son Gohan
He transformed when fighting with Goten after Goten had been taken over by Baby!! It seems that even in times of peace, he hasn’t neglected his training. The differences in Gohan’s facial expressions before and after transforming are the most intense out of any warrior!!

[Goten Forever]

Meh... I don't like how they changed his personality. Gohan is no longer the gentle soul of Z. He's still nerdy though. That makes it worse.

If we're bringing GT into it, I think the person who made that hadn't seen a single episode of Z beyond that where Goten and Trunks fuse, and only saw the beginning of that one.

[Piccolo Daimao]

As for whether Gohan is still way stronger than Goku at the "10 years after Z" mark... that depends on whether or not Gohan still has his "mystic/ultimate" power-up by that time.

He seems to still have his Ultimate power-up, since he's drawn with the same closed eyes as before.

Meh... I don't like how they changed his personality. Gohan is no longer the gentle soul of Z. He's still nerdy though. That makes it worse.

Did they really change his personality that much in GT, though?

Chapter: 497 (DBZ 303), P4.1
Piccolo: “Is-is that Gohan…!? No…Something’s different about him…His features are a little different…And he has a different type of ki than before…His softness has vanished too…That’s why I couldn’t tell it was him…”

So Piccolo, one of the people who'd know him most and probably understands him even better than Gokuu (see the Cell Games incident), mistook Gohan for someone else at first, and believes that his features are a little different (artistically demonstrated by the closed eyes, hair and stern look), that he was a different type of ki and that he wasn't soft anymore.

So yeah, after his Ultimate power-up, he wasn't the Gohan he was before, although he still retained his nerdy side, as we see that he's a glasses-wearing scholar.

[Necrosaber]

I don't think it's at all impossible for Goku to have become stronger than Gohan. Just because it says Gohan had more "potential" doesn't necessarily mean no one else can surpass him. We all know how people in the DB universe overcome their own limits. This logic means that Gohan couldn't become any stronger than he was in his Ultimate form, which I just don't believe.

So, his base becoming stronger than Mystic form? Probably not. That'd be his base would be stronger than his SSJ3 10 years ago..just not seeing that.

His SSJ3 becoming stronger than Gohan? I think it's possible, and I feel that it did.

Side note: Depending on how if you view canon and movie 13, SSJ3 Goku was able to tank and take down Hildegarn. No telling when that took place though, since Goten and Trunks were still kids.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

According to GT, he's apparently lost the "mystic/ultimate" form and is going Super Saiyan again 15 years after Buu. Since the old Kaioshin's power-up and Super Saiyan are basically two methods of drawing out the same absurd hidden power, you can't have both at the same time... and "mystic/ultimate" is more energy-efficient and supposedly gives even more power than the upper limits of your Super Saiyan potential. There wouldn't be any reason for Gohan to use Super Saiyan if he still had access to that power.

According to the GT Perfect Files, Gohan didn't neglect his training so he most likely did not lose his power-up, just took it even further and gained SSjin and SSjin 2 on top of it IMO.

I believe that Gohan stopped training during the 10 years after Boo, lost his Ultimate power-up, and then started training again during the 5 years before GT. It makes sense better to me like this, since Vegeta is stronger than Gohan.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I don't even believe that Gohan surpassed Goku in the Boo arc. Goku confesses to holding back to let the newer generation handle Boo which is why he did not intend to destroy the Fat Majin Boo.
I mean, Pure Boo is stronger than Evil Boo since he has no more kai influence holding his evil back which lowered his power through absorption. Vegeta says that Goku is the only one capable of defeating Pure boo but he refuses the idea of Gohan and Gotenks coming to help fight Boo. Which takes us to the ultimate Conclusion that Goku > Gohan and that Gohan alone without Gotenks's help against Pure boo would die miserably. We already know that Gohan was the only one capable of defeating Cell. This was established by everyone once he transformed. But Pure boo, that position belongs to Goku. Vegeta confesses that Gohan was strongest in Cell arc, but then confesses that Goku was strongest during his fight with Pure boo.

All the Old kai did was brought out Gohan's hidden potential completely into his base state along with the power of his ssj2. But Gohan never trained over the years whatsoever and Goku has for 7 years straight. Goku can generate enough power in ssj3 go up against a toying Pure boo, and since Pure boo is stronger than Evil boo, who Gohan crushed. It's obvious in the end who is stronger. As for Goku against Evil boo. I would hardly call that a legit way of saying he is no match for Evil boo. Evil boo himself says that Goku is far far smaller than a flea and can not beat him in that state. That is when Goku restates that he can beat him. So this right here already tells us that Goku > Evil boo if he were a normal size. He probably never went ssj3 inside his body to begin with because of this incident. Seeing as how ssj1 Goku failed to blow a huge hole to try and damage Boo, it had no effect (when it was shown that gun bullets could go through Boo). That is ultimately the reason why Goku never went ssj3 to kill Boo, because being far smaller than a flea massively shrunk his Ki as stated by Evil boo himself and Goku wanted Fusion as their best option in that incident. Once he escaped, he was surprised he got his full sized body back.

[Super Vegetto]

I don't even believe that Gohan surpassed Goku in the Boo arc. Goku confesses to holding back to let the newer generation handle Boo which is why he did not intend to destroy the Fat Majin Boo.
I mean, Pure Boo is stronger than Evil Boo since he has no more kai influence holding his evil back which lowered his power through absorption. Vegeta says that Goku is the only one capable of defeating Pure boo but he refuses the idea of Gohan and Gotenks coming to help fight Boo. Which takes us to the ultimate Conclusion that Goku > Gohan and that Gohan alone without Gotenks's help against Pure boo would die miserably. We already know that Gohan was the only one capable of defeating Cell. This was established by everyone once he transformed. But Pure boo, that position belongs to Goku. Vegeta confesses that Gohan was strongest in Cell arc, but then confesses that Goku was strongest during his fight with Pure boo.

All the Old kai did was brought out Gohan's hidden potential completely into his base state along with the power of his ssj2. But Gohan never trained over the years whatsoever and Goku has for 7 years straight. Goku can generate enough power in ssj3 go up against a toying Pure boo, and since Pure boo is stronger than Evil boo, who Gohan crushed. It's obvious in the end who is stronger. As for Goku against Evil boo. I would hardly call that a legit way of saying he is no match for Evil boo. Evil boo himself says that Goku is far far smaller than a flea and can not beat him in that state. That is when Goku restates that he can beat him. So this right here already tells us that Goku > Evil boo if he were a normal size. He probably never went ssj3 inside his body to begin with because of this incident. Seeing as how ssj1 Goku failed to blow a huge hole to try and damage Boo, it had no effect (when it was shown that gun bullets could go through Boo). That is ultimately the reason why Goku never went ssj3 to kill Boo, because being far smaller than a flea massively shrunk his Ki as stated by Evil boo himself and Goku wanted Fusion as their best option in that incident. Once he escaped, he was surprised he got his full sized body back.

Only one kai weakened Kid buu and its Grand kai. Supreme kai says in manga Grand kais goodnes had more control over his evil so that why Kid buu > Fat buu.

Goku asks for kids and Gohan. Vegeta says no ! Time to make genki-dama ! He never sad Goku > Kid buu, He never sad Kid buu > Gotenks Gohan. In time when Goku fight Kid buu Earth is destroyed.Kids are dead and so is Gohan. Vegeta says only Goku can fight him. He never sad only he can defeat Kid buu or that he is the strongest. Dont forget in that time Gohan and kids are dead so only hope is Goku.

Goku and Vegeta remove Gohan, Piccolo and kids. Goku says if we go right now we cant defeat him. He asks Vegeta for fusion dance and Vegeta refuse. Goku says they cant beat Super buu and Gohan is toying with Super buu. Then Super buu arrives and say they are small. Goku doesnt belive him and shots a ki blast. Again Gohan > Goku.

And dont put things that happend after as before like Goku saying he is small like fly before he sad he cant beat Super buu. Goku was confident in beating Kid buu after he fought him and even before fight he crushed the earings cuz he though he can win but by Daizesnshuu even Goku full power cant beat Kid buu.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I mean, Pure Boo is stronger than Evil Boo

He is not. Goku believed he & Vegeta wouldn't stand a chance against Evil Boo. When Evil Boo transformed into South Kaioshin Boo, Goku was terrified because he wsaid that he was growing stronger. But When South Kaioshin Boo became Pure Boo, Goku was more confident and thought he could beat him. Now, I know that he underestimated him during that scene, but he was still confident that he could kill Pure Boo if he could go full power in SSJ3. All these are from the manga.

[Hellspawn28]

^Well in most VS fights that characters are always force to fight to the death even they are friends (It's often a general rule unless the topic creator changes it). If both Mystic Gohan and SSj3 Goku go all out then I think Mystic Gohan would last longer due to having better stamina.

If he really did train, he'd be stronger than Vegeta, and Baby wouldn't need to take over Vegeta.

Well Bebi did want revenge, even if Gohan is stronger then Vegeta in GT that Bebi still wanted revenge on his race. Not to mention he fully took control over his and making Vegeta stronger as well.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Not only would Gohan have been stronger than Vegeta had he been able to go Super Saiyan on top of his Mystic form, he would be literally at least 400 times as strong as Vegeta.