How powerful would have Gokhan been compared to Vegito?

[Kingdom Heartless]

I take Elder Kaioshin's line about how Vegetto was 'definitely strongest' literally. In the context it certainly sounds like Goku and Vegeta were the perfect fusees while Goku and Gohan would have been imperfect.

Except that the old Kaioushin said that "Gokhan" probably wouldn't even need SS to defeat Gohan-Boo, while Vegetto did.

Who's to say he needed to transform? I gather that the reason he transformed was not so much to shift odds into his favour, but to become so unbelievably powerful that Buu would know just how completely outmatched he is. Maybe he could have beaten him in base, but it's not likely he could have turned him into the quivering mess that he did in SSj.

[hleV]

I take Elder Kaioshin's line about how Vegetto was 'definitely strongest' literally. In the context it certainly sounds like Goku and Vegeta were the perfect fusees while Goku and Gohan would have been imperfect.

Except that the old Kaioushin said that "Gokhan" probably wouldn't even need SS to defeat Gohan-Boo, while Vegetto did.

Yet Rou Kaioshin later comments on how strong Vegetto is because of Goku & Vegeta, as if Goku & Gohan's fusion wouldn't have been as great.
Vegetto probably had in mind Rou Kaioshin's words about going SSJ after fusing, and that's what he did. Only to later realize that he's in reality way too powerful.

[FNF]

I take Elder Kaioshin's line about how Vegetto was 'definitely strongest' literally. In the context it certainly sounds like Goku and Vegeta were the perfect fusees while Goku and Gohan would have been imperfect.

Except that the old Kaioushin said that "Gokhan" probably wouldn't even need SS to defeat Gohan-Boo, while Vegetto did.

Yet Rou Kaioshin later comments on how strong Vegetto is because of Goku & Vegeta, as if Goku & Gohan's fusion wouldn't have been as great.
Vegetto probably had in mind Rou Kaioshin's words about going SSJ after fusing, and that's what he did. Only to later realize that he's in reality way too powerful.

Exactly. Vegetto even says himself;

Context: after Vegetto outclasses Boo
Vegetto: “Even I’m surprised. To think that I’d be able to make this big a fool out of you.”

I'm thinking;

SSjin Vegetto>>>SSjin Vegetto(Goku's expectations)>base Vegetto>Gohan-Boo

[Piccolo Daimao]

I take Elder Kaioshin's line about how Vegetto was 'definitely strongest' literally. In the context it certainly sounds like Goku and Vegeta were the perfect fusees while Goku and Gohan would have been imperfect.

Except that the old Kaioushin said that "Gokhan" probably wouldn't even need SS to defeat Gohan-Boo, while Vegetto did.

Who's to say he needed to transform? I gather that the reason he transformed was not so much to shift odds into his favour, but to become so unbelievably powerful that Buu would know just how completely outmatched he is. Maybe he could have beaten him in base, but it's not likely he could have turned him into the quivering mess that he did in SSj.

Well, when someone transforms, they usually do so to gain an advantage over the opponent, and in this scenario, nothing suggests otherwise.

I take Elder Kaioshin's line about how Vegetto was 'definitely strongest' literally. In the context it certainly sounds like Goku and Vegeta were the perfect fusees while Goku and Gohan would have been imperfect.

Except that the old Kaioushin said that "Gokhan" probably wouldn't even need SS to defeat Gohan-Boo, while Vegetto did.

Yet Rou Kaioshin later comments on how strong Vegetto is because of Goku & Vegeta, as if Goku & Gohan's fusion wouldn't have been as great.
Vegetto probably had in mind Rou Kaioshin's words about going SSJ after fusing, and that's what he did. Only to later realize that he's in reality way too powerful.

I still don't see what difference that makes. Yeah, Vegetto may've been stronger than anyone's expectations, but that doesn't mean that he's automatically stronger than "Gokhan".

And the old Kaioushin told him that "Gokhan" probably wouldn't need to go SS. So I don't see what your point is here either.

[hleV]

And the old Kaioushin told him that "Gokhan" probably wouldn't need to go SS. So I don't see what your point is here either.

"probably" wouldn't necessary be enough for Goku & Gohan's fusion to actually attempt fighting Boo in base form. The thing is, we've seen how Goku wasn't sure if this Potara Fusion was gonna be enough to outmatch Boo, then we see Vegetto going SSJ right after fusing, AND THEN we see Vegetto realizing how strong he actually is.

[Piccolo Daimao]

And the old Kaioushin told him that "Gokhan" probably wouldn't need to go SS. So I don't see what your point is here either.

"probably" wouldn't necessary be enough for Goku & Gohan's fusion to actually attempt fighting Boo in base form. The thing is, we've seen how Goku wasn't sure if this Potara Fusion was gonna be enough to outmatch Boo, then we see Vegetto going SSJ right after fusing, AND THEN we see Vegetto realizing how strong he actually is.

Why wouldn't it be enough? The old Kaioushin seemed pretty confident about his statement, at least enough so that he bothered to mention it at all in the first place.

Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3
Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!”

I could just as easily argue that Gokuu figured Vegetto would be weaker than "Gokhan" on account of Gohan being much stronger than either them, since he doesn't know about the "rivalry boost".

But I see your point and accept it, while not necessarily agreeing with it. I guess there isn't enough evidence either way.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Actually, you know what? Can we talk about this "rivalry boost" thing? I'm still skeptical as to how something like a rivalry, something that isn't even as substantial or measurable as power, race or height, can literally add power to a fusion like that. Even the excuse of ~MAGIC~ can't let this one fly by, because it just doesn't make sense. Isn't it possible that the old Kaioushin was talking metaphorically?

[hleV]

Actually, you know what? Can we talk about this "rivalry boost" thing? I'm still skeptical as to how something like a rivalry, something that isn't even as substantial or measurable as power, race or height, can literally add power to a fusion like that. Even the excuse of ~MAGIC~ can't let this one fly by, because it just doesn't make sense. Isn't it possible that the old Kaioushin was talking metaphorically?

For me rivalry is how you feel about someone. Goku isn't really Vegeta's best friend, and they tend to surpass each other. While Goku kinda likes Vegeta, it's not the other way around. So basically Vegetto was formed of two people who aren't very close friends, one of them actually nearly-hating the other.

[Kaboom]

The best idea I've ever been able to come up with is that it's another part of how "in sync" the two Fusees are with each other, specifically in terms of the mind. If two people are not just amazingly strong, but amazingly strong because of each other, then maybe that shared mindset between the two could lend itself to creating a more perfect and effective Fusion?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Actually, you know what? Can we talk about this "rivalry boost" thing? I'm still skeptical as to how something like a rivalry, something that isn't even as substantial or measurable as power, race or height, can literally add power to a fusion like that. Even the excuse of ~MAGIC~ can't let this one fly by, because it just doesn't make sense. Isn't it possible that the old Kaioushin was talking metaphorically?

For me rivalry is how you feel about someone. Goku isn't really Vegeta's best friend, and they tend to surpass each other. While Goku kinda likes Vegeta, it's not the other way around. So basically Vegetto was formed of two people who aren't very close friends, one of them actually nearly-hating the other.

No, I know what rivalry is. I'm saying, how can something that isn't really substantial or measurable literally add power to a Fusion?

The best idea I've ever been able to come up with is that it's another part of how "in sync" the two Fusees are with each other, specifically in terms of the mind. If two people are not just amazingly strong, but amazingly strong because of each other, then maybe that shared mindset between the two could lend itself to creating a more perfect and effective Fusion?

I know all that, I just have difficulty wrapping my head around it.

Meh. I'll guess I'll have to just settle for ~MAGIC~.

[Eight-Star Dragon]

A little off-topic, but this has bugged me. Could there be other types of boosts? For two people that are close, for example? I've always envisioned a "family bond boost" for Goku and Gohan.

I know realistically they probably don't have the best relationship but that's not something Dragon Ball would focus on. I also thought about a "lovers' boost" but that's also not very Dragon Ball-ish.

[Rory]

A little off-topic, but this has bugged me. Could there be other types of boosts? For two people that are close, for example? I've always envisioned a "family bond boost" for Goku and Gohan.

I know realisticly they probbly don't have the best relationship but that's not something Dragon Ball would focus on. I also thought about a "lovers' boost" but that's also not very Dragon Ball-ish.

This got me thinking; you know Gokhan would do a one-handed Kamehameha. Just old times sake (and an awesome nod to the Cell-arc).

[hleV]

This got me thinking; you know Gokhan would do a one-handed Kamehameha. Shit just old times sake (and an awesome nod to the Cell-arc).

He wouldn't do it if both his hands were fine.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Well, when someone transforms, they usually do so to gain an advantage over the opponent, and in this scenario, nothing suggests otherwise.

But to make Buu feel like he had no other options the way he did, he needed more than an advantage.... he needed Buu to feel like an insect compared to him, to feel like fighting a proper battle is pointless.

Kind of like why Freeza felt the need to transform into his final form, despite not really needing to at that stage. He wanted to see how hopeless their situation was, except in this case they were meant to be left without options altogether.

[Saiga]

In Freeza's case he arguably didn't need to transform to his third form either. He was already beating Piccolo when he did so.

[CatouttaHell]

Gokan is worlds above Vegetto IMO. Elder Kaioshin implies the rivals boost is just the cherry on top, not the whole enchilada, so there's no way it's even coming close to covering the 1,000x gap between Son Goku and Son Gohan.

[SylentEcho]

I have a feeling Gokan would have been insanely stronger than Vegito and would have probably killed Boo instantly. Gohan doesn't really play with his opponents. (Except that one time against Cell, but I'm sure he learned from it because he isn't an idiot like Goku or an ego freak like Vegeta. )

[Piccolo Daimao]

Well, when someone transforms, they usually do so to gain an advantage over the opponent, and in this scenario, nothing suggests otherwise.

But to make Buu feel like he had no other options the way he did, he needed more than an advantage.... he needed Buu to feel like an insect compared to him, to feel like fighting a proper battle is pointless.

Kind of like why Freeza felt the need to transform into his final form, despite not really needing to at that stage. He wanted to see how hopeless their situation was, except in this case they were meant to be left without options altogether.

All it would take to make Boo feel like he had no other options is simply beating him up. He turned him into candy, and even that didn't work. So what else? Absorption? Vegetto doesn't even need to go overkill, but it turned out that transforming into a Super Saiyan pushed him further over the edge than he'd expected.

Freeza transformed into his final form because he was worried about Gohan (who'd almost crushed him to the ground with his full-power Bakurikimaha) and Vegeta (who was around his first form and, after his subsequent Zenkai from Kuririn, surpassed even his third form) becoming steadily stronger (through Zenkais) and the possibility of one or even both of them becoming a Super Saiyan, so he thought it was best to make sure they were dead for good, just in case.

Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P10.5
Freeza: “I don’t believe stupid legends like the Super Saiyan, the strongest in history, but I don’t feel too good…The squirt and Vegeta really are steadily getting stronger, after all…”

In Freeza's case he arguably didn't need to transform to his third form either. He was already beating Piccolo when he did so.

No, he wasn't. Before Freeza stopped holding back, Piccolo was fighting more than evenly with Freeza. But then Freeza started fighting more seriously and only briefly beat down Piccolo because he was still wearing his weights. But then Piccolo took them off and revealed that he'd been holding back too, to which Freeza responded by transforming and subsequently overpowering him.

Chapter: 300 (DBZ 106), P12.4
Context: after Piccolo knocks back one of Freeza’s blasts
Freeza: “He knocked it back!”

Chapter: 301 (DBZ 107), P2.2-3
Kuririn: “In-incredible…[Piccolo]’s fighting evenly with Freeza…”
Vegeta: “No…no…He’s more than [even]…”

Chapter: 301 (DBZ 107), P7.4
Context: after Freeza beats up on Piccolo
Kuririn: “Wh-what…He wasn’t [fighting] seriously before…”

Chapter: 301 (DBZ 107), P8.4
Context: after second form Freeza starts fighting more seriously
Freeza: “You realized just now, right? That you underestimated me. But you’re better than I imagined. That’s what made me show you my true ability.”

Chapter: 301 (DBZ 107), P10.4, P11.2-4
Context: after second form Freeza beats Piccolo up, and Piccolo finally removes his weights
Piccolo: “Me too. I’ll get serious…”
[ ]
Freeza: “Are you saying you weren’t serious before? Kukkukkuh…I didn’t know Namekians told jokes…”
Piccolo: “You’ll see soon enough.”
Kuririn: “Even at a time like this, Pi-Piccolo was fighting with that heavy turban and mantle…!”

[Saiga]

In Freeza's case he arguably didn't need to transform to his third form either. He was already beating Piccolo when he did so.

No, he wasn't. Before Freeza stopped holding back, Piccolo was fighting more than evenly with Freeza. But then Freeza started fighting more seriously and only briefly beat down Piccolo because he was still wearing his weights. But then Piccolo took them off and revealed that he'd been holding back too, to which Freeza responded by transforming and subsequently overpowering him.

Yeah, that wouldn't do shit. The same weights Piccolo had when he went to Kaio's at ~3,000-3,500 aren't going to make as much of a difference at over 1,000,000. He got smashedby Freeza once Freeza powered up, removing his weights wouldn't have done jack at that stage.

[goku the krump dancer]

If the whole "Rival boost" thing is true, then I think their might by a defect somewhere with Gokhan being that a Father fusing with his son being a cluster fuck in terms of DNA.