Goku,Gohan reached limits in Base and SSJ in Time Chamber

[Super Vegetto]

Goku to Piccolo : He cant get stronger. Only weaker.

(link to bootleg scanlation site removed by administrator)

Goku to Vegeta : Build up strenght isnt solution. (transformation)

(link to bootleg scanlation site removed by administrator)

Vegeta to Trunks : If Goku already mastered that form he doesnt go ASSJ or USSJ when he whants to power up to that level.

(link to bootleg scanlation site removed by administrator)

Now I'm thinking ASSJ and USSJ are not transformations but yust faild process in achiving more power. But its probably stated as transformation so let it be.

Goku to Gohan : Something should come up (transformation for Gohan). Limits are reached.

(link to bootleg scanlation site removed by administrator)


It seams they reached limits in base and SSJ so FPSSJ is beyond SSJ because it lets them acces more power without sacrifacing speed like Vegeta sad. Vegeta and Trunks probably had diffrent way of training and didnt use the FPSSJ form.

Its Kid Gohan SSJ2 > SSJ2 Vegeta Buu saga. Vegeta claims he got stronger and that there is no more huge gap between them because Gohan got soft and stoped training which is also stated as SSJ2 Vegeta Buu Saga > Teen Gohan SSJ2 Buu saga because Gohan got weaker.

Other thing i noticed is that Goku SSJ2 is > Kid Gohan SSJ2 in power but there is a reson. Gohan mastered base and SSJ which is the highest result FPSSJ. He never mastered SSJ2 because he never actualy used it in training. Goku in other way mastered SSJ2 and transformed again. Vegeta achived SSJ2 during 7 years while Goku mastered SSJ2 and achived SSJ3 during 7 years.
Also potential comes in head where its Goku SSJ2 or FPSSJ2 = Majin Vegeta SSJ2 or FPSSJ2 because its limit of Vegeta and Goku like i mentioned. Vegetas potential stops here because like Babidi sad he got him to limit.

Also ASSJ and USSJ are part of FPSSJ but like Vegeta sad with control of that form his body weight wont be so heavy when he goes higher ( USSJ ).
Goku acts confident in Gohans abiltiy to find way to transform before him, because he already knowed Gohan taped in that power ( or its yust filler cuz i dont remember very well )...

Well what do you guys think ?

Also we can say if Trunks and Vegeta used FPSSJ they probably didnt reached limti but, they achived more power like its stated and the weight becomed smaller ( USSJ). Than we also can say they are SSJ in Cell games because of aura, but they have power they had (with weight) or lets say USSJ in powers, but Goku is stated > USSJ Trunks so it makes sence because he and Gohan reached limit. Vegeta and Trunks are no where near limit like Goku and Gohan in Cell saga.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Hmmm... Maybe Goku can't get much stronger, which would explain why there is not a very big difference between his Cell arc & Boo arc counterparts. Vegeta was the same too, so the only way for them to go stronger is by transforming into SSJ2, and for Goku, into SSJ3, reaching his limits. Gohan went beyond his limits thanks to Rou Kaioshin's ritual. Which means that Goku can't get significantly stronger, Vegeta can only by reaching SSJ3, and Gohan can't get any stronger at all. Goten & Trunks were still kids and didn't do any extensive, long time training, so there is still a long way for them to reach their limits. But these apply for the manga only. For the anime, that's a different story.

@ Super Vegetto, I suggest you posting only the images, rather than the whole link.

[Super Vegetto]

Hmmm... Maybe Goku can't get much stronger, which would explain why there is not a very big difference between his Cell arc & Boo arc counterparts. Vegeta was the same too, so the only way for them to go stronger is by transforming into SSJ2, and for Goku, into SSJ3, reaching his limits. Gohan went beyond his limits thanks to Rou Kaioshin's ritual. Which means that Goku can't get significantly stronger, Vegeta can only by reaching SSJ3, and Gohan can't get any stronger at all. Goten & Trunks were still kids and didn't do any extensive, long time training, so there is still a long way for them to reach their limits. But these apply for the manga only. For the anime, that's a different story.

Yea its probably like that. Lol links are removed so i will post only image.

[dprez]

I think Goku and Gohan got as strong as they could get before the Cell games.

[FNF]

It was a temporary limit just to make things interesting. Hell, Goku etc believed they had hit their limits in SSjin before they went into the RoSaT. Go figure.

[hleV]

I kinda agree with the theory that once achieved FPSSJ, they tapped into the power which they could have only achieved through Grade transformations before.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It was a temporary limit just to make things interesting. Hell, Goku etc believed they had hit their limits in SSjin before they went into the RoSaT. Go figure.

Even though it was implied lots of times that they had hit their limits, they managed to get a lot stronger after that. The Daizenshuu said that the near-death power ups became insignificant. And did Goku or Vegeta got any significant increase in their power after 7 years of training? Doesn't seem so.

I kinda agree with the theory that once achieved FPSSJ, they tapped into the power which they could have only achieved through Grade transformations before.

Yeah, me too.

[Super Vegetto]

It was a temporary limit just to make things interesting. Hell, Goku etc believed they had hit their limits in SSjin before they went into the RoSaT. Go figure.

Well limit of SSJ is when you actualy hit it so you nead to transform imo. Goku is pointing that all the time after RoSaT. Gohan taped into that power because he hits limit like Goku sad and because of his emotions.
With yust this theory some things are pretty clear. Gohan in world tournament is SSJ2 with lightning aura but AT probably yust whanted to show SSJ2 again after 7 years the same way he looked before.
After that Gohan fights Dabura. Like i sad Trunks and Vegeta didnt reached limits which means aura is same as SSJ but they taped in powers of stronger forms without having weight holding them back.
Buu saga : Vegeta closed gap between Goku and himself in base and SSJ but he didnt fully mastered SSJ2 and Babidi unlocks it for him which makes them equal in those forms. Kid Gohan FPSSJ is stated stronger than Goku FPSSJ so logicly Vegeta > Teen Gohan because he got weaker.

Like i sad and so did Goku. Goku though Gohan got stronger before fight with Dabura. He though Gohan mastered SSJ2 because he unlocked it first. If Gohan actualy trained sometimes he could keaps his level of FPSSJ like Cell games but SSJ2 is diffrent like i sad. So by logic Gohan SSJ2 fought Dabura but because he is weaker aura changes, Vegeta who is > Teen Gohan says he can beat Dabura and Goku says that Gohan didnt lost but he is still holding there.
Goku counted on Gohans rage that would make him > Dabura. In the end Gohans power he got from rage is unlocked and raised to limit which means he can go FPSSJ or SSJ2 but he gets weaker because he didnt mastered SSJ2 and he got mastered unlocked enraged potential that makes him strongest.

GT is what breaks limit every time. Goku base got who knows how stronger is realy stupid and wierd logic to use. This logic actualy makes sence because, why they nead transformation if base gets stronger and in time they wont nead even to transform ? It never stated that Goku with SSJ can surpass someone with SSJ2 because that only happens in GT so not hitting limit is realy wierd thing cuz everyone gets in prime of own powers.

[Super Vegetto]

Goku to Piccolo : He cant get stronger. Only weaker.



Goku to Vegeta : Build up strenght isnt solution. (transformation)



Vegeta to Trunks : If Goku already mastered that form he doesnt go ASSJ or USSJ when he whants to power up to that level.



Now I'm thinking ASSJ and USSJ are not transformations but yust faild process in achiving more power. But its probably stated as transformation so let it be.

Goku to Gohan : Something should come up (transformation for Gohan). Limits are reached.



It seams they reached limits in base and SSJ so FPSSJ is beyond SSJ because it lets them acces more power without sacrifacing speed like Vegeta sad. Vegeta and Trunks probably had diffrent way of training and didnt use the FPSSJ form.

Its Kid Gohan SSJ2 > SSJ2 Vegeta Buu saga. Vegeta claims he got stronger and that there is no more huge gap between them because Gohan got soft and stoped training which is also stated as SSJ2 Vegeta Buu Saga > Teen Gohan SSJ2 Buu saga because Gohan got weaker.

Other thing i noticed is that Goku SSJ2 is > Kid Gohan SSJ2 in power but there is a reson. Gohan mastered base and SSJ which is the highest result FPSSJ. He never mastered SSJ2 because he never actualy used it in training. Goku in other way mastered SSJ2 and transformed again. Vegeta achived SSJ2 during 7 years while Goku mastered SSJ2 and achived SSJ3 during 7 years.
Also potential comes in head where its Goku SSJ2 or FPSSJ2 = Majin Vegeta SSJ2 or FPSSJ2 because its limit of Vegeta and Goku like i mentioned. Vegetas potential stops here because like Babidi sad he got him to limit.

Also ASSJ and USSJ are part of FPSSJ but like Vegeta sad with control of that form his body weight wont be so heavy when he goes higher ( USSJ ).
Goku acts confident in Gohans abiltiy to find way to transform before him, because he already knowed Gohan taped in that power ( or its yust filler cuz i dont remember very well )...

Well what do you guys think ?

Also we can say if Trunks and Vegeta used FPSSJ they probably didnt reached limti but, they achived more power like its stated and the weight becomed smaller ( USSJ). Than we also can say they are SSJ in Cell games because of aura, but they have power they had (with weight) or lets say USSJ in powers, but Goku is stated > USSJ Trunks so it makes sence because he and Gohan reached limit. Vegeta and Trunks are no where near limit like Goku and Gohan in Cell saga.

[FNF]

It was a temporary limit just to make things interesting. Hell, Goku etc believed they had hit their limits in SSjin before they went into the RoSaT. Go figure.

Even though it was implied lots of times that they had hit their limits, they managed to get a lot stronger after that. The Daizenshuu said that the near-death power ups became insignificant. And did Goku or Vegeta got any significant increase in their power after 7 years of training? Doesn't seem so.

Goku surpassed enraged kid Gohan which was a gargantuan leap in power even minus the SSjin2 transformation.


Anyway what basically proves that forms correlate in terms of power (base Goku>base Vegeta thus SSjin Goku>SSjin Vegeta) and therefore there are no limits for a form is the fact that even as late on as the Boo arc, Goku and co are still training in base in an attempt to get stronger. In short, for Goku to be stronger than Gohan in SSjin2, his SSjin would have to surpass Gohan's SSjin as forms correlate with one another.

SSjin Goku (Boo arc)>SSjin Goku (Cell games) and therefore they didn't hit a limit.

@Super Vegetto, I suggest you read the manga more closely. They break limits all the time. Even at EoZ base Goku is suggested to be a beast.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku surpassed enraged kid Gohan which was a gargantuan leap in power even minus the SSjin2 transformation.

The difference isn't enormous though, unlike his pre-ROSAT & post-ROSAT counterparts. Like I said, he didn't get significantly stronger.

[FNF]

Goku surpassed enraged kid Gohan which was a gargantuan leap in power even minus the SSjin2 transformation.

The difference isn't enormous though. Like I said, he didn't get significantly stronger.

But he did get stronger so there was no limit. And remember, Goku would have spent most of his time carrying out 'special training' for unlocking SSjin2 and then SSjin3 anyway. The chances are his SSjin would have been waaaaa~y stronger than what he was at the Cell games if he just kept carrying out basic/power increasing training.

[Super Vegetto]

Did you forgot Goku says he would probably nead to go all out on Uub because he is Kid buu ? After that he realized Uub is far from Kid buu powers so he decides to go easy on him and not kill him.

Well Vegeta reached his potential limit and its Majin Vegeta SSJ2.In eoz he is probably mastered SSJ2 but thats how far his potential goes. Goku in other hand is always above Vegeta, and Gohan is always above Goku so they made them in limit and they made them correctly.

[Super Vegetto]

Goku surpassed enraged kid Gohan which was a gargantuan leap in power even minus the SSjin2 transformation.

The difference isn't enormous though. Like I said, he didn't get significantly stronger.

But he did get stronger so there was no limit. And remember, Goku would have spent most of his time carrying out 'special training' for unlocking SSjin2 and then SSjin3 anyway. The chances are his SSjin would have been waaaaa~y stronger than what he was at the Cell games if he just kept carrying out basic/power increasing training.

By that logic there is no potential and no limit. Goku is the only one proved to be strongest so by that logic its Goku after 10 years > Gohan which is false and almost no one agrees with that. Why would Goku train in SSJ and be FPSSJ if by your logic its only base that is growing ? By that logic FPSSJ is same as SSJ but yust in better control and yet its FPSSJ > USSJ in powers.

[hleV]

There's no limit in DB.

[FNF]

Did you forgot Goku says he would probably nead to go all out on Uub because he is Kid buu ? After that he realized Uub is far from Kid buu powers so he decides to go easy on him and not kill him.

I think you have been reading a different manga;

Goku: “Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. ”

So...yeah. Enraged Oob = Pure Boo in terms of power.

Well Vegeta reached his potential limit and its Majin Vegeta SSJ2.In eoz he is probably mastered SSJ2 but thats how far his potential goes. Goku in other hand is always above Vegeta, and Gohan is always above Goku so they made them in limit and they made them correctly.

I don't see what you're trying to prove here.

[FNF]

By that logic there is no potential and no limit. Goku is the only one proved to be strongest so by that logic its Goku after 10 years > Gohan which is false and almost no one agrees with that. Why would Goku train in SSJ and be FPSSJ if by your logic its only base that is growing ? By that logic FPSSJ is same as SSJ but yust in better control and yet its FPSSJ > USSJ in powers.

Once again, what are you trying to prove? Please try to be more coherent with your responses.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

But he did get stronger so there was no limit.

Goku said he had reached his limit, and that it would be useless for him to go for another day into the Room of Spirit & Time. His training in Heaven for 7 years didn't make him very stronger, but helped him to unlock SSJ2 & SSJ3. He can get a bit stronger, but not a lot stronger, which proves that there is a limit that he is trying to break with his training, but he can't.

And remember, Goku would have spent most of his time carrying out 'special training' for unlocking SSjin2 and then SSjin3 anyway. The chances are his SSjin would have been waaaaa~y stronger than what he was at the Cell games if he just kept carrying out basic/power increasing training.

All we know about Goku's training is that he did weight & image training from the guidebooks. We have no idea if or what he did beyond this.

[Super Vegetto]

There's no limit in DB.

Why they nead transformation if base is only thing that grows and they dont have limit ? Babidi says he unlocked Vegeta power to limit, Old kai Gohans power to limit. No limit logic means same as gt logic. Base Goku > SSJ3 Goku Buu saga which is pretty ridiculous logic.


I think you have been reading a different manga;

Goku: “Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. ”

So...yeah. Enraged Oob = Pure Boo in terms of power.

He realized Uub has potential not that base Goku > Kid buu lol

Read :

[Super Vegetto]

By that logic there is no potential and no limit. Goku is the only one proved to be strongest so by that logic its Goku after 10 years > Gohan which is false and almost no one agrees with that. Why would Goku train in SSJ and be FPSSJ if by your logic its only base that is growing ? By that logic FPSSJ is same as SSJ but yust in better control and yet its FPSSJ > USSJ in powers.

Once again, what are you trying to prove? Please try to be more coherent with your responses.

I'm proving you that Dbz logic is not same as Gt logic and that there is limit in dbz. Gohan is stated to got potentail unlocked to limit and he cant get stronger. You and other guy claim diffrent which is not the logic dbz is using.
Gohan after 100 years > Goku because Gokus potential powers cant get higher than Gohans but your logic is no limit which is also like base Goku gt after 10 years > ssj3 Goku Buu saga.