Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Hellspawn28]

I wonder if South Kaioshin is going to stand a chance against Fat Buu?

[Gonstead]

Nooooo! Burter!

[Gyt Kaliba]

LOL. Poor Burter, but oh man, I almost choked on my lunch at the high-five from Raditz and Nappa. That's hilarious.

[TrunksTrevelyan0064]

As a Butta fan I am disappointed D:

[SHINOBI-03]

Now hold on... Nappa lost by default. Why is he celebrating?! Just because he made fun of Freeza and got away with it?!

[dprez]

Holy shit!

Dumbass Butta. Keep your damn mouth shut! Mr. "fastest in the universe" couldn't dodge that.

[Scarz]

Now hold on... Nappa lost by default. Why is he celebrating?!

...because he made fun of Freeza and got away with it

You just answered your own question.

[dprez]

#17 is gonna get one-shoted by a base form Goku.

[Scarz]

#17 is gonna get one-shoted by a base form Goku.

Salagir doesn't believe that Goku ever surpassed with his base form the power that he had when he first got the SSJ transformation. Might have gotten close, but it didn't surpass it (and the same for the other Saiyans... Their current base form doesn't surpass any SSJ form that they had in the manga).

Following that logic, it would be impossible for Goku to beat #17 with his base form, unless #17 has really become much weaker. We'll just have to wait to see.

If this is true I really doubt Goku will be able to defeat 17 in his base form. (Although I wish he could).

[dprez]

Hmmm, I see.

Tell that to Yakon...

[Kingdom Heartless]

Hmmm, I see.

Tell that to Yakon...

What do you mean by that?

While in base against Yakon, all Goku did was (narrowly) avoid a couple of attacks.

[rereboy]

Hmmm, I see.

Tell that to Yakon...

There's no real black and white "proof" of just how strong Yakon was or just how strong Goku was in his base at that point compared to his SSJ self in Namek. Its all a matter of opinion.

[dprez]

Hmmm, I see.

Tell that to Yakon...

What do you mean by that?

While in base against Yakon, all Goku did was (narrowly) avoid a couple of attacks.

Exactly. Even in pitch black darkness. Yakon is stronger than Kaioshin ( Babidi and Dabura know exactly how strong Kaioshin is, and have the utmost confidence that Yakon will kill them all, even after seeing Pui Pui get killed so easily by only one of them. ) and yet a base Goku can dodge an attack that is clearly meant to kill or severely wound. Kaioshin can one-shot Freeza.

Base Goku is strong.

Hmmm, I see.

Tell that to Yakon...

There's no real black and white "proof" of just how strong Yakon was or just how strong Goku was in his base at that point compared to his SSJ self in Namek. Its all a matter of opinion.

Except we are shown how strong Yakon should be, and by people who would know the truth of Kaioshins abilities.

Kaioshin can one shot Freeza. Yakon is stronger than Kaioshin. Goku dodges Yakon's attacks. A base Goku must be stronger than or equal to 100% Freeza.

[Kingdom Heartless]

Being able to barely dodge an attack does not mean he was particularly strong. I'm sure there are plenty of examples of weaker characters dodging stronger ones.

[rereboy]

Except we are shown how strong Yakon should be, and by people who would know the truth of Kaioshins abilities.

Kaioshin can one shot Freeza. Yakon is stronger than Kaioshin. Goku dodges Yakon's attacks. A base Goku must be stronger than or equal to 100% Freeza.

By that logic, we should also assume that Pui-Pui is stronger than Kaioshin since he was sent alone into that room by his master while his master fully expected him to succeed in collecting energy from them.

However, Pui Pui actually thought 10 times the gravity of Earth, the same gravity of North Kaio's planet, was a big deal... And Kaio is even weaker than Nappa was... So, how can a being who actually thinks that that gravity is a bid deal, be any kind a threat to a being, a Kaioshin, who can one-shot Freeza and is assisted by three other fighters?
One possible answer: Babiddi doesn't really know jack. He just knows that his fighters are strong or very strong, but not being a fighter himself he doesn't have the skills to see just how strong a fighter is compared to another. He just has a vague idea, not a exact one. So, he doesn't have the skills to really know just how far Pui-Pui and Yakon are from the Kaioshins or the Earthlings and on top of that he is arrogant. And even Kaioshin suffers somewhat from this, possibly for the same reason... He is not really a fighter, despite being gifted with strong power, so he sometimes doesn't judge a fighter as accurately as the others.

So, as you can see, your logic admits convincing counter-arguments. Why? Because there is no hard evidence one way or the other. There is plenty of evidence and room to have different opinions without any of them being "wrong". DBM just has a possible and plausible interpretation.

[dprez]

Pui-Pui very well could be stronger than Kaioshin, we don't know for sure. Yakon on the other hand is strongly implied to be. Also, I would think waiting thousands of years with nothing to do but study your future endeavor would grant Babidi and Dabura enough time to know their enemy.

Being able to barely dodge an attack does not mean he was particularly strong. I'm sure there are plenty of examples of weaker characters dodging stronger ones.

The whole point of Yakon fighting was to injure his opponents until they die. Goku punked this dude in his base form.

[rereboy]

Pui-Pui very well could be stronger than Kaioshin, we don't know for sure. Yakon on the other hand is strongly implied to be. Also, I would think waiting thousands of years with nothing to do but study your future endeavor would grant Babidi and Dabura enough time to know their enemy.

Pui-Pui could be indeed stronger than Kaioshin. We just don't know. But since he thought that 10x the gravity of Earth was a big deal, I think its implied that he isn't stronger or at least it doesn't much sense that he is. Even if he had a battle power of only a million, it already wouldn't make much sense to think that 10x the gravity of Earth was a bid deal for him, and that's still a power much, much inferior to Freeza's power. So a misjudgment on Babidi's part seems much more likely. If this is true, than his judgment regarding Yakon can't be trusted also. And even if you don't agree at least you should be able to see how this is a valid and plausible interpretation, which should be enough to accept (and even enjoy) DBM's interpretation.

Also, do we even know if Kaioshin and Babidi have already met before, face to face? It seems to me that Babidi spent all those years searching Buu and when he finally found his location he turned the strongest fighters he could find to his side and went to Earth. Kaioshin didn't even know that Babidi existed until shortly before he went to Earth, so they probably never met before, they just knew about each other.
So, in this case, just exactly would Babidi know about how strong Kaioshin is? He probably never had a chance to use one of his gizmos to read his energy... And Dabura exists on a dimension on which not even the Kaioshins rule... How much would he know about Kaioshin and his real power, other than his reputation? They also probably never met before...

I mean, if they had met before face to face, most likely, they would already have fought and a winner would already exist. So it makes sense that they didn't actually met, they just know stuff. How? Beats me... Magic? Vision? Galactic surveillance? Would those means allow them to really judge an opponent's power accurately or a face to face evaluation would be much more accurate?

Like I said... Plenty of room for different interpretations...

[dprez]

Yea I get it. Us Dragon Ball fans differ on so many levels. To me, it just seams obvious what Akira Toriyama was trying to tell us. The boo arc seams so iffy to so many people. I tend to trust what a God and a thousand year old warlock believe.

[Saiga]

Yea I get it. Us Dragon Ball fans differ on so many levels. To me, it just seams obvious what Akira Toriyama was trying to tell us. The boo arc seams so iffy to so many people. I tend to trust what a God and a thousand year old warlock believe.

Babidi is an idiot though.

[dprez]

Yea I get it. Us Dragon Ball fans differ on so many levels. To me, it just seams obvious what Akira Toriyama was trying to tell us. The boo arc seams so iffy to so many people. I tend to trust what a God and a thousand year old warlock believe.

Babidi is an idiot though.

When interacting with Boo, yes, he is.