Dragon Ball sequel in relation in SS Omega

[MCDaveG]

Well, I obviously don't pay too much attention to considered sequels of DB series topics.
But I just saw for episodes of Saint Seiya Omega, which is in the basic terms the same thing as GT was to Dragon Ball series.
Made from scratch by TOEI. It have bad ratings in Japan already and maybe it will improve or not, but it isn't that bad.
They made a little concept twist and reinvented the things around cosmo and are trying to build up a whole new approach.
Do you think, that they will think over their fail with DB Kai and make a possible sequel to Dragon Ball with whole new cast of characters like Omega is? With some relations to the past of DB/DBZ series?
I thought that it's impossible for them to do with old franchise like this, but it's 23 years after Saint Seiya ended as weekly show, then being finished with the anime OAV adaptation of the last story arc in this century and they are doing sequel to the anime not like they did with GT - With main character who goes with some handicap and powering down the enemies. There is even stronger one and new cast to deal with him. I will like any sequel like GT more than what we got now.
You know, bad video games and idiotic Dragon Ball SD.

[TheBlackPaladin]

If I understand the question correctly (and correct me if I'm wrong), it seems as though you're asking if we would mind another DB series even if it featured a completely different cast of characters and a "reinvention" or two of the the traditional elements typically found in a DB show, which is more or less what "Saint Seiya Omega" is to "Saint Seiya." Although I hate "Saint Seiya Omega" because supposedly the (MASSIVELY SUPERIOR) Saint Seiya series, "The Lost Canvas," was cancelled to make room for "Omega."

I can say that I personally wouldn't mind that at all, and would actively welcome it. On the other hand, I wouldn't hold out much hope for its quality. During the drawing of the "One Piece"/"Dragon Ball" crossover manga, "Cross Epoch," I believe Toriyama was quoted as saying, "Drawing 'Dragon Ball' again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again." So if there was another series, it likely wouldn't have his involvement. And, well...we've seen what happens when Toei decides to go their own way without seeking the input of the mangaka. It usually doesn't turn out that well.

[MCDaveG]

Omega is also without the mangaka, like GT. Designs were proposed by the original designer of old anime series Shingo Araki, but he died after doing the main cast and they rehired a guy who worked on Cashern Sins to re-design it. That's why it doesn't look that well as the series before.
But overall, I still don't like the element idea much, but well, I was afraid it will be a lot worse and the nods to the older Saint that are now legend are cool.
So I got idea, if they really expanded on the Z ending, having Uub in the main cast and now I can imagine him to pair with Tarble and going trough new adventure meeting some new characters, with some returning characters having 2nd role in the story That I will like a lot.
I was always pissed how Z anime ended, with Goku flying away with Uub and the narration from the manga missing, ending and NEP with GT.

PS: Lost Canvas was put on hold, but I heard that it will continue after some time. The Omega is probably not the case, it seems that they are taking simply break or in worst possible scenario cancelling it because of bad sales of the releases, but no-one gave clear official statement. I like Lost Canvas a lot, only thing that bothers me that it's recycled a lot and I'm kinda tired from the fangasmic Hades overload. My best choice for true sequel/spin-off adaptation to anime will be of course Next Dimension, but seeing how slow Kurumada is, I don't see them having lot of material to work with to not deteoriate to writing from scratch filler.

I must watch myself to not be dangerously off-topic

[Puto]

Although I hate "Saint Seiya Omega" because supposedly the (MASSIVELY SUPERIOR) Saint Seiya series, "The Lost Canvas," was cancelled to make room for "Omega."

Uh... Lost Canvas isn't even done by the same studio. Omega is Toei, Lost Canvas is TMS. Other than the Saint Seiya name, there's no real relation between them.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well, I included the word "supposedly" because it was just that, a supposed rumor. The rumor going around was that Toei made some legal maneuvers to demand that TMS cease production of "The Lost Canvas" so that there wouldn't be a case of brand confusion when they released "Omega." That is, however, an unconfirmed rumor.

[Rukura]

I thought Saint Seiya Omega was a remake of the original story, sorta kinda. (That seems to not be doing so hot among fans of the original either)

If anything, it looks more like a New Dr. Slump than a GT (which isn't good either but...ya know.)

[MCDaveG]

I think it's more GT, because it is sequel, starting 25 years after defeating the Hades by the hands of Seiya, who got promoted to Gold rank - sucked from fingers of TOEI writers, not based on anything.

[Rukura]

Huh. Well, I can only imagine that hardcore Saint Seiya fans saw what happened with Kai and were preying for something totally new, sooo... (Sucks that they're kinda doing it wrong from what little I saw, but at least it's actually new).

It kinda makes sense. Seems like Toei hasn't fucked with it at all for a while, so they could afford to experiment. You can only mess up so many times with one franchise before you have to leave it be for a while and just make a little something from time to time.

[AgitoZ]

I think it's more GT, because it is sequel, starting 25 years after defeating the Hades by the hands of Seiya, who got promoted to Gold rank - sucked from fingers of TOEI writers, not based on anything.

I wouldn't say Omega is like GT, as they are both trying to do very different things. GT was attempting to keep the fans who had followed through Z, and unfortunately did not achieve that. Omega is attempting to get a new generation of fans into the franchise and it is much more newbie friendly. Seiya being there does not really change that fact, he's more like a nice way to tie the series to the source material.

[Chuquita]

I don't think I could watch a Dragon Ball series that has a completely new cast. The cast is why I like the series so much. I mean, if DB was like a sentai series (Power Rangers-y), or like Pretty Cure where they reboot with a brand new cast almost every single year, then it wouldn't matter so much because I'd be used to it, but DB's just not that type of show to me.

[MCDaveG]

That's why I'd like to see team up of Uub, maybe Tarble and some new characters like Yamcha or Tenshinhan were for example.
The cast is getting pretty old in the end of Z series and in GT, I hoped for Uub's bigger role after his introduction in the end of Z, but no..... They pretty much put a crap on Uub.
Interestingly enough, the cast in Saint Seiya is 14-15? years old at the end of Hades arc, so they have pretty much 3/4 of fights before them, but nope, they tossed the popular cast completely and introduced new generation.

I think, that TOEI never fails in pissing off fans of some franchise, when thy wanna toss something original in,
as due to my opinion, they made GT and Omega totally upside down. I'll a lot more the same cast in Omega and different cast in GT. But I can understand it, as the original Saint Seiya have it's canon and official sequel in Next Dimension, so TOEI maybe wanted to be ''safe'' in pissing the fans a lot more in both cases.

The world in Dragon Ball is ''eternal'' but characters not, they are aging and also, probably defeated all the big and strongest threats in universe so I don't see problem with tossing the Saiyans aside and coming back to roots of the first Dragon Ball with martial arts and Ki improving against some new threats. I kinda don't like, how in GT, Goku was semi-powered down, but damn, they thought that for the OMG DBZ fans will be the best thing, that the power in the series must exponentially grow, so they introduced Baby, who is like 20x stronger than 100% Power Freeza (not a statement based on anything, it's the same like playing Final Fantasy and saying: ''The boss battle is like battling dog on steroids''), so f**k off the powerdown, SSJ 4 FTW!!

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku did NOT get ANY weaker in GT. Instead, he got A LOT stronger. When he became a child, the only things he couldn't do were Shunkan Ido & SSJ3 for long time. But in his SSJ form, he was about Pure Boo's power. AND he got SSJ4 later, which not ony gave him back everything he lost from his change into a child, but also gave him a lot more power.

[Michsi]

I don't think I could watch a Dragon Ball series that has a completely new cast. The cast is why I like the series so much.

Agreed! I get attached to characters first and foremost and I would miss the original ones too much. Granted I could see myself warm up to new ones too , if they are done right, but for some reason, I can't help but feel that they would try to build a cast that would mimic the old one, with the same stereo-types and make it very obvious (he's the Krillin of the group, he's the Vegeta, etc.). I don't think I'd like that.

"Drawing 'Dragon Ball' again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again."

I think I remember reading that and how it kinda saddened me. It's not that I expect him to ever continue it, but seeing the author out-right say like that is a bit bothersome.

[TheBlackPaladin]

"Drawing 'Dragon Ball' again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again."

I think I remember reading that and how it kinda saddened me. It's not that I expect him to ever continue it, but seeing the author out-right say like that is a bit bothersome.

Someone who's more familiar with Akira Toriyama's work should feel free to comment, but to me, it seems as though Mr. Toriyama is annoyed with how much his fame as a mangaka revolves around "Dragon Ball." Sort of like when an actor becomes so famous for a particular role they played that the rest of their career is always lying in the shadow created by that one famous role. In other words, while he loves "Dragon Ball," it seems that he's a tad annoyed that that is what he's mostly remembered for in spite of his other work. The closest thing after "Dragon Ball" in terms of popularity would probably be "Dr. Slump," and that simply doesn't have nearly the same notoriety, popularity, and world-wide renown that "Dragon Ball" does.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Anime about Dragon Ball Online & Dragon Ball Heroes. They contain new cast, and have cameos of the Goku & co. through Time Travel. Future Trunks guides the characters of DBO in their Time Travels, and he seems to have a similar role in DBH. It would be ridiculous if they made a continuation of GT with the same characters. They are too strong now. Even GT wasn't the best idea, the powers made zero sense.

[Michsi]

Someone who's more familiar with Akira Toriyama's work should feel free to comment, but to me, it seems as though Mr. Toriyama is annoyed with how much his fame as a mangaka revolves around "Dragon Ball."

I have to admit, I got a similar impression. Though I wouldn't really call the sentiment "annoyed", more like really tired of it.
Of course it has a lot to do with knowing through interviews how often he tried to finish DB that helps create that impression. I just hope it's just a bit exagerated.

[Squall]

I was hoping that they would continue the Lost Canvas anime as well. Omega definitely is nowhere close in comparison to Lost Canvas. Hopefully, the anime is only stopping for the manga to get further ahead. So they have more material to work with.

Although Omega isn't a horrible series though. It is kind of average. Personally, I kind of liked the idea of the cloths being stored in crystals because I always thought hauling around a giant box that weights like 100-200 pounds looked kind of ridiculous. I don't mind the idea of using elements either.

For a new Dragon Ball series, I liked the idea of Episode of Bardock. It was interesting seeing an edgy version of Goku being the main character. I really want to see a series made about Bardock. It would be interesting if Bardock marries and has more children. It would be interesting if he has a boy and a girl because we haven't seen a girl turn Super Saiyan yet. Pan and Bra were the closest we saw of that but they never went Super Saiyan.

Another idea would probably be if Goku, Vegeta, and the other two Saiyans weren't the only survivors of Planet Vegeta. Being that Goku was sent to a remote planet to eventually conquer it, there could be dozens if not hundreds of Saiyans sent throughout the galaxy to conquer planets. Also it is possible that Bardock had more children then just Goku and Raditz. Goku could have had other siblings sent throughout the universe.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

we haven't seen a girl turn Super Saiyan yet.

We have seen plenty, actually.

From Dragon Ball Online:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... QKeI#t=75s

From Dragon Ball Heroes:

[Super Sonic]

Have to ask, did anyone else upon seeing the title before seeing the thread think at first it meant Super Saiyan Omega?

[Mewzard]

Have to ask, did anyone else upon seeing the title before seeing the thread think at first it meant Super Saiyan Omega?

*looks at all of classic Saint Seiya in English on bookshelf next to first volume of Saint Seiya: Next Dimension in Japanese, then looks at Crunchyroll membership that solely exists for watch Saint Seiya (both a hope for a third season of The Lost Canvas' OVA, and to support the series via officially subbed Saint Seiya: Omega viewing)*

Nope, I didn't make that mistake. To me, this series is half Dragon Ball GT, and half Yu-Gi-Oh! GX. It's actually more like GX, with the school setting, mostly original cast, being a non-canon anime only sequel, etc. But, I've been a Dragon Ball fan so long, GT came first to my mind (also because Toei made GT and Omega).

While it's not absolutely terrible, it could be much better. Toei's just not very good at original animated stories in my opinion (They're much better at Tokusatsu than Animation). The series could have been better if they would have at least consulted Masami Kurumada on plot elements, armor design, music (he wrote a few good songs for Saint Seiya over the years).

I'd love to see a new Dragon Ball series with Akira Toriyama's input, but there's really a big difference between the two franchises (Besides Saint Seiya being the purest action shonen one can get, while Dragon Ball became action gradually, from a comedy writer):

Akira Toriyama wanted to end his series, he was done, and glad to be so. Masami Kurumada never wanted to end Saint Seiya when it originally did, and had made efforts to eventually bring his series back in full, writing and drawing a new manga himself (Saint Seiya: Next Dimension) in full color even, letting two other writers do non-canon prequels (Megumu Okada on Saint Seiya: Episode G, and Shiori Teshirogi on Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas), and even getting the old anime to conclude the original manga story (Saint Seiya: The Hades Chapter OVAs), and attempting to continue the stories in movie form (Saint Seiya: The Heaven Chapter - Overture).

Toriyama got to tell all the stories he wanted to, Kurumada hadn't even touched the half way point (which, at his age, does make me a bit worried...).

That said, when push comes to shove, it seems Toriyama can come up with some new stuff (Super Exciting Guide...don't kid yourself that he thought of that before ending the series...Dragon Ball Online's Timeline). So, if they could get Toriyama to do some more designs, maybe help with some plot ideas, I wouldn't mind a new anime at all...just please...if it must be Toei...bring out their A-Squad team...or, hell, find an S-Squad team...