Trunks, Ginyu, and Freeza DVDs re-authored?

Gohan-kun · Post by **Gohan-kun** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:01 am

I don't know if I'm allowed to do this. I vaguly remember somebody linking to another forum and one of the mods here got angry. Let me know if I can't do this for the future.

Someone asked about these boxsets and a FUNimation representative said that those DVD's are being reauthored by another authoring company. When someone asked him about this, he said something about "Old Glass masters" and that its quicker and easier to remaster the dvds with new menus instead of using the old ones.

He says some other stuff like remastering and reauthoring only has to do with dvd production like all the digital bits but not a change in the dub, or the print of the DVD. Can some person good at this stuff tell me what "reauthoring" a DVD means? I'll post the link to the topic if someone gives me the o-kay.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:54 am

Well, this sure is good news for those who don't have the Trunks DVDs yet, since the new versions will look different (at least with a new logo somewhere or something), so poeple won't recieve the old edition when buying online.

But does this mean they're releasing box sets? If so, I'll wait even longer before ordering these DVDs. Shipping is too expensive if you order few DVDs, and customs get annoying if you order multiple, so box sets are really useful if you live outside US.

Gohan-kun · Post by **Gohan-kun** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:38 pm

I'm just wondering what he means by reauthoring...

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:26 pm

I think it means creating a new basic "source" from which all the DVDs are printed from. Cleaning up the original footage and using the new stuff as a new base copy.

Gohan-kun · Post by **Gohan-kun** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:33 pm

Damn it all! Now I have to buy those DVD's over again if their going to look better...

sangofe · Post by **sangofe** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:18 am

LOL, just go buy the dragonboxes :p

Gohan-kun · Post by **Gohan-kun** » Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:14 pm

sangofe wrote:LOL, just go buy the dragonboxes :p

Nah. I hate the video quality and the sound is the same. Not to mention no subtitles either. I watch DB with many friends usually, and downloading/printing scripts off websites isn't the way we'd like to do it. And spending $750+ at once is too much for me.

sangofe · Post by **sangofe** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:51 am

want me to buy you a pair of glasses?
Or did you just word yourself poorly?
i can understand you prefer to colors cause you've probably just grown up with them, but to prefer the video...
either you need new glasses, or...

tablet the eunuch · Post by **tablet the eunuch** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:27 pm

sangofe wrote:want me to buy you a pair of glasses?
Or did you just word yourself poorly?
i can understand you prefer to colors cause you've probably just grown up with them, but to prefer the video...
either you need new glasses, or...

Once again, FUNi has different masters than Toei, which is not their fault. If it was a simple thing of FUNi colour-screening the picture though, then you should easily be able to dumb your TV's colour down to an appropriate level.

Same thing happened with the Region 1 Transformers Set for Season 1. They used Beta Masters or whatever, and ended up with things having different colours from time to time.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 6:31 pm

sangofe wrote:Or did you just word yourself poorly?
i can understand you prefer to colors cause you've probably just grown up with them,

I'm throwing your question right back at you.

Gohan-kun · Post by **Gohan-kun** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 7:41 pm

sangofe wrote:want me to buy you a pair of glasses?
Or did you just word yourself poorly?
i can understand you prefer to colors cause you've probably just grown up with them, but to prefer the video...
either you need new glasses, or...

Obviously, any negativity towards those boxes just eats you up so I'll gladly say that TOEI's video blows ass, honestly. The show looks JUST like it aired on Fuji TV. FUNimation makes it look up to date, which is what I like. TOEI's version is bland/dull. Don't like it in the least.

And the audio quality is primarily the same. I see no reason in paying 750+ for a set with no subtitles, same audio as FUNi's, and video quality I despise. The extras it comes with isn't enough to make me dish out such doe. The Dragonball box is even worse since you can get all of Dragonball from FUNimation for no more than $600, while you're paying around $1000 for a set with NO subs. If you're fluent in Japanese, then subs are obviously not a necessity. But I don't wanna guess what the characters are saying in each scene, no matter how well I know the story.

sangofe · Post by **sangofe** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:51 am

Gohan-kun wrote:
sangofe wrote:want me to buy you a pair of glasses?
Or did you just word yourself poorly?
i can understand you prefer to colors cause you've probably just grown up with them, but to prefer the video...
either you need new glasses, or...
Obviously, any negativity towards those boxes just eats you up so I'll gladly say that TOEI's video blows ass, honestly. The show looks JUST like it aired on Fuji TV. FUNimation makes it look up to date, which is what I like. TOEI's version is bland/dull. Don't like it in the least.

And the audio quality is primarily the same. I see no reason in paying 750+ for a set with no subtitles, same audio as FUNi's, and video quality I despise. The extras it comes with isn't enough to make me dish out such doe. The Dragonball box is even worse since you can get all of Dragonball from FUNimation for no more than $600, while you're paying around $1000 for a set with NO subs. If you're fluent in Japanese, then subs are obviously not a necessity. But I don't wanna guess what the characters are saying in each scene, no matter how well I know the story.

"Obviously, any negativity towards those boxes just eats you up"
-Describes yourself!
Seriously:
The dragonboxes are way better in all aspects, and you cannot deny that:
video transfer-
funi dvds have 3-5 mbps
dragonbox has 6-9...
Zooming:
funi zooms in at some scenes for no reason whatsoever
interlacing:
Funi has ugly interlacing, and even some ghosting at some dvds!
Dragonbox dvds have nice progressive video transfer.
Colors:
Bleeding colors and way to dark colors.
Plus the FUNi dvds have
edge enhancement, double lines, and blurring.

Now, if you prefer all this, then its your choise.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:07 am

Care to give us a source for your wonderful knowledge? And its my "choise" to actually understand whats being said thanks much.

tablet the eunuch · Post by **tablet the eunuch** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:57 am

Dragonbox isn't progressive

Also please take into account the reason funi gets such bad masters is because THAT IS WHAT TOEI GIVES THEM.

Yikes.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:10 pm

Since when do the FUNi DVDs "zoom in at some scenes for no reason whatsoever"?

And as to "The dragonboxes are way better in all aspects", I'd argue that

1/ The price, and
2/ Being able to actually understand what everyone is saying...

...are two fairly big "aspects" that the FUNi DVDs beat the Dragonboxes on.

sangofe · Post by **sangofe** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:15 pm

Actually, the dragonboxes are cheaper vs. buying all funi vols. altogether.

For everything I've said comparing the dvds:
http://www.dbzoa.net/forum/showthread.p ... hreadid=67

Take a look at http://www.dbzoa.net/forum/showthread.p ... genumber=2
for the pic where it shows its zoomed in.

For subs, it's possible to get timed subs and use on your dragonboxes, and yeah, i know that is not an option for most.

sangofe · Post by **sangofe** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:19 pm

tablet the eunuch wrote:Dragonbox isn't progressive

Also please take into account the reason funi gets such bad masters is because THAT IS WHAT TOEI GIVES THEM.

Yikes.

how do you think Toei masters were before they got remastered?
Not good...
They have the opening and endings before they got remastered.
and it is just not good.
Dragonbox is progressive.
You're talking hot, pure bullshit.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:23 pm

sangofe wrote:You're talking hot, pure bullshit.

And for the last time, you're typing terribly, and verbally attacking my forum's members. Last chance to stop.

Xeries · Post by **Xeries** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:54 pm

Actually you all are spouting nonsense (with the exception of Sangofe, who actually KNOWS what he is talking about). You see, none of you have the Dragon Boxes, or you wouldn't be arguing with those incorrect points.

I'll start with Gohan-kun. You may not like the colors, but the video quality is god awful in the FUNi version. That is a fact that cannot be argued with.

You see, let's start with the pros of the FUNi DVDs. They have subtitles. That's it, nothing else, plus the subtitle font isn't the greatest in the world, but the subs are dead-on.

Now onto the cons. First, they are interlaced badly. Have you ever watched the FUNi discs on a monitor? You probably haven't seeing as how they have interlaced lines EVERYWHERE all the time, it looks horrible. Then there are the colors. The colors are a matter of taste, but you have to realize, they aren't the correct colors. They aren't the colors as they were originally meant to be seen. The colors aren't as rich and vibrant either, just really dark. Next, you have bleeding. You see bleeding quite a bit in the FUNi discs and it looks bad. The discs also have a lot of double lines, edge enhancements, and fuzz around edges. They also have blurring and ghosting. Next, they have a lot of artifacts, a lot of scratches left in the film, and a bit of macroblocking (bad pixilation). It wouldn't have been THAT hard for them to fix those things (and the macroblocking was caused by bad transfer to a DVD). They also have tons of grain, way more than they should. Lastly, as Sangofe pointed out, they have low mbps (3-5). They DVDs are very bad with very bad encoding. I can remaster their discs and make them look great compared to what I started with, those however, can't come close to the Dragon Boxes. The main reason they can't come close is that when I do it, I start with crap, and end up with a mediocre video, but the Dragon Boxes were remastered professionally and they start with the original film, and end with even better video on a DVD.

Now I'll give you some pros of the Dragon Boxes. First they ARE progressive. I don't know where beaver boy, I mean tablet, got his information from, but he is very wrong. The only thing in all the Dragon Boxes that isn't progressive are the OVAs, that's it. Next, the Dragon Boxes were taken from the original film and redone. They have none of the bad points FUNi discs have. Next, they have 6-9 mbps. They were encoded very nicely.

Now the cons. They don't have subtitles. Big deal... For the quality you get from the Dragon Box go find an episode script or something, I mean why sacrifice quality just for the words right in front of you? If the quality wasn't as drastically changed as it is, it would be a perfectly valid argument, but the quality is just so bad it isn't worth it.

Also, one thing hardly anybody know is that FUNi zooms in on the picture. Check out the link Sangofe provided (plus it shows some color comparisons too). WHY would they do something like that? My only guess is that they don't know what they're doing which, from the quality of their DVDs, seems very possible.

Last is the price. Whoever said they are cheaper is sadly mistaken. 291 / 3 = 97. 97 * 25 = $2,425.00. $2,425.00 + $50.00 for the specials = $2,475.00 $2,475.00 > $2,000.00 (plus the Dragon Boxes get the 2 OVAs). HMMMMMMMMMM, I wonder which is cheaper?????

If there are any questions I didn't answer, or didn't answer well enough, let me know I'll be more than happy to explain anything further.

Have a nice day,
-Xeries

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:08 pm

Xeries wrote:Now onto the cons. First, they are interlaced badly. Have you ever watched the FUNi discs on a monitor? You probably haven't seeing as how they have interlaced lines EVERYWHERE all the time, it looks horrible.

Do you realize that nearly all anime is interlaced? It has to be, whether it's done pre-mastered or done on-the-fly with a 3:2 pulldown. Computer monitors aren't NTSC hardware (they adhere to no analogue video standards at all, since they're digital).

Of course you're going to see interlacing on your computer monitor, especially if you're using a crappy software player. Hardware players, such as set-top DVD players that you hook up to your TV, handle the de-interlacing and playback because they're dedicated hardware specifically designed to play back NTSC signals.

The FUNimation discs are absolutely fantastic telecines. I can perform IVTC with a simple AVIsynth script (telecide and decimate), with NOTHING extra to get rid of the interlacing.

The Dragon Box episodes may be progressive, which is all fine and dandy if you're playing them on a computer monitor, but when you play them back on a DVD player to a TV the hardware performs what is called a "3:2 Pulldown," which essentially interlaces the signal on the fly.

So... what's that about no-one knowing what they're talking about... ? No offense, but honestly... if you're going to start spewing video tech, at least spend a few years learning what it's all about.

Xeries wrote:Then there are the colors. The colors are a matter of taste, but you have to realize, they aren't the correct colors. They aren't the colors as they were originally meant to be seen. The colors aren't as rich and vibrant either, just really dark.

Well of course. The joke with NTSC is that it stands for "Never The Same Color." Unlike PAL and SECAM, those with NTSC players can adjust their brightness, contrast, hue, saturation, etc. The only "true" colors are what are on the film masters, which none of us will ever see.

Xeries wrote:Next, you have bleeding. You see bleeding quite a bit in the FUNi discs and it looks bad. The discs also have a lot of double lines, edge enhancements, and fuzz around edges. They also have blurring and ghosting.

Most of that has to do with the configuration of your player and display. I agree that the colors are saturated, perhaps a bit too much at times, but whatever.

Xeries wrote:Next, they have a lot of artifacts, a lot of scratches left in the film, and a bit of macroblocking (bad pixilation). It wouldn't have been THAT hard for them to fix those things (and the macroblocking was caused by bad transfer to a DVD). They also have tons of grain, way more than they should. Lastly, as Sangofe pointed out, they have low mbps (3-5). They DVDs are very bad with very bad encoding. I can remaster their discs and make them look great compared to what I started with, those however, can't come close to the Dragon Boxes. The main reason they can't come close is that when I do it, I start with crap, and end up with a mediocre video, but the Dragon Boxes were remastered professionally and they start with the original film, and end with even better video on a DVD.

No-one's debating that FUNimation's mastering house uses a ridiculously low bitrate, not to mention single-layer discs, still, for their DBZ and DBGT discs. Dual-layered discs are, honestly, about the same cost these days for professional mastering houses, and I fully agree that they should be using them and pumping up the bitrate.

Xeries wrote:Next, the Dragon Boxes were taken from the original film and redone. They have none of the bad points FUNi discs have. Next, they have 6-9 mbps. They were encoded very nicely.

Well, of course. That's Toei for you. They never give any of the domestic anime companies anything decent. Look at what's going on with Sailor Moon right now; the contract is already up, mostly because Toei is planning on releasing their own further DVD boxsets in Japan. Toei and other anime companies lose TONS of business to American products, because they're sooo much cheaper.

Also, of course the Japanese discs are going to have higher bitrates, period. That's also why they cost $40 - 60 a pop, when not in giant boxsets.

Xeries wrote:Also, one thing hardly anybody know is that FUNi zooms in on the picture. Check out the link Sangofe provided (plus it shows some color comparisons too). WHY would they do something like that? My only guess is that they don't know what they're doing which, from the quality of their DVDs, seems very possible.

Uhh... to get around all the fuzz and glue from the original cels, maybe.. ? Seems plausible to me.

For the record, this is not an anti-FUNimation site or forum, nor is it a pro- one. If you want to infer, or flat-out have those sentiments, do it elsewhere, please. That is not addressed to any one individual, but if you feel it addresses you, perhaps it does.