Power comparison between Goten and Gohan

[012yArthur0]

Well, I think everybody noticed something on the Buu arc and Freeza Arc.

Goten, as a 6 year old boy, could go super Saiyan, and was strong enough to train togheter with Gohan Super Saiyan. While Gohan, was struggling with the others Z-Fighters to keep up with freeza, and around same age as Goten.

EDIT: However, it can be noticed that Goten knew the existence of Super Saiyan, so it could be easier for him to archieve that level, while Gohan didn't had a concrete proof of it until Krillin died and Goku got mad.

So, this can conclude that Goten can easily surpass Gohan in power?

[hleV]

Not necessarily. Goten started off with greater power because he was conceived by a much stronger Goku, that doesn't necessarily mean his power growth surpasses Gohan's. And Goten was 7 in the Boo arc.

[Insertclevername]

Also I wouldn't say Gohan struggled that much in the Freeza arc, his anger and zenkais did keep him afloat though.

[dprez]

So, this can conclude that Goten can easily surpass Gohan in power?

You're right here. If Gohan never got his potential unlocked, Goten could've easily surpassed him.

[ChahikoDBZ]

So, this can conclude that Goten can easily surpass Gohan in power?

You're right here. If Gohan never got his potential unlocked, Goten could've easily surpassed him.

I'd have to agree with that as well. To me it seemed like Goten could have became a Super Saiyan 3 if he had wanted to seeing as how he and Trunks could do it while fused as Gotenks. Which Super Saiyan 3 would already be stronger than Gohan as his strongest form before his potential was unlocked. And let's remember Gohan had to have his hidden power awakened by Elder Kaioshin. If it wasn't for that then Goten most likely would have surpassed Gohan easily.

[NANLIT]

Goten surpassing Gohan would also depend on how hard he trained. The 10 year timeskip after Boo was defeated showed Goten and Trunks not caring about training. If Goten were to surpass Gohan had he not had his dormant power unlocked and exceeded by the Old Kaioshin, he would have to train and not slack off like he did.

[hleV]

Goten surpassing Gohn would also depend on how hard he trained. The 10 year timeskip after Boo was defeated showed Goten and Trunks not caring about training. If Goten were to surpass Gohan had he not had his dormant power unlocked and exceeded by the Old Kaioshin, he would have to train and not slack off like he did.

Trunks and Goten playfought while Gohan was sitting in front of his desk, studying.

[lash]

Not necessarily. Goten started off with greater power because he was conceived by a much stronger Goku, that doesn't necessarily mean his power growth surpasses Gohan's. And Goten was 7 in the Boo arc.

Not sure why people bring this up every now and then. That really isn't how genetics work, at all. I know someone is going to mention Toriyama's comment with the recessive tail gene thing, but for this particular instance I don't see anything at all implying that biology is magically warped there.



Anyway, personally I think it all goes back to Vegeta's overlooked statement: Vegeta: “Fuhahaha…! We Saiyans grow stronger each time we fight…! The stronger the opponent, the stronger we become.

The boys have Gohan and Vegeta as seniors. Vegeta trains with Trunks, Trunks trains/plays with Goten. Along with having huge dormant power already due to saiyan and human blood...both boys gain massive power quickly.
Gohan had far far weaker people to toughen him up when he was a child. So it took him longer to gain exceptional power.

[Saiga]

If Gohan hadn't slacked off, he'd probably be stronger than Goku was in the Boo saga, so Goten would have a much harder time trying to surpass him.

[rereboy]

Not necessarily. Goten started off with greater power because he was conceived by a much stronger Goku, that doesn't necessarily mean his power growth surpasses Gohan's. And Goten was 7 in the Boo arc.

Not sure why people bring this up every now and then. That really isn't how genetics work, at all. I know someone is going to mention Toriyama's comment with the recessive tail gene thing, but for this particular instance I don't see anything at all implying that biology is magically warped there.



Anyway, personally I think it all goes back to Vegeta's overlooked statement: Vegeta: “Fuhahaha…! We Saiyans grow stronger each time we fight…! The stronger the opponent, the stronger we become.

The boys have Gohan and Vegeta as seniors. Vegeta trains with Trunks, Trunks trains/plays with Goten. Along with having huge dormant power already due to saiyan and human blood...both boys gain massive power quickly.
Gohan had far far weaker people to toughen him up when he was a child. So it took him longer to gain exceptional power.

In a species that gets stronger everytime its members fight and has near death power ups, would it be strange for them to also produce stronger offspring the stronger the saiyan father (and mother) is at that moment?

Not only does it make sense given what we know of the Saiyans, but it also seems to fit and explain why Goten and Trunks are that strong in the Buu saga compared to Gohan at their age.

Real words genetics has nothing to do with Dragon Ball since what we already know of the Saiyans is already impossible according to what we know of genetics and science.

[son veku]

I dont think it would be strange, but realistically if you work out a lot doesn't mean you kid will be born with muscles, but since this is the DB world I dont there is a answer to why Goten, and Trunks are strong really early in life.

The only answer that I can come up with is that Toriyama needed a new protagonist that's strong. (hence Gotenks)


I dont think them knowing about Super Saiyans was a very big variable in them transforming that early.

[rereboy]

I dont think it would be strange, but realisticlly if you work out a lot doesn't mean you kid will be born with muscles so I dont think even think there is a answer to why Goten is strong really early in life

Realistically, there is no reason for a being to transform in seconds into a giant creature just because he watched the full moon (especially since moon light is just sunlight reflected on the the moon), there is no reason for their hair to change color at will, there is no reason for why they should become much stronger just because their bodies recovered from a near fatal wound, there is no reason for Saiyans to be compatible with humans and produce viable offspring, etc.

Real science and genetics clearly doesn't seem to apply.

[lash]

In a species that gets stronger everytime its members fight and has near death power ups, would it be strange for them to also produce stronger offspring the stronger the saiyan father (and mother) is at that moment?

Not only does it make sense given what we know of the Saiyans, but it also seems to fit and explain why Goten and Trunks are that strong in the Buu saga compared to Gohan at their age.

Real words genetics has nothing to do with Dragon Ball since what we already know of the Saiyans is already impossible according to what we know of genetics and science.

Yes.
Humans too get stronger when they stress their muscles near failure.
You don't see any non steroid bodybuilders produce offspring with biceps bigger than their heads as the kid grows up, lol.

There could be other more valid reasons why they are that strong at such an age. That's the whole point of this topic to uncover them and compare it to Gohan's upbringing.

Obviously that's not entirely the case. As Gohan and Goten are still Goku's sons, carry his genes and traits, and both carry his blood. So the question is, where does Dragonball draw the line on how much genetics it follows in real life? So far, I haven't seen any reason anywhere(not official, or supplemental) that says anything about this specific part of offspring genetics magically differing from real life.

[rereboy]

Yes.
Humans too get stronger when they stress their muscles near failure.
You don't see any non steroid bodybuilders produce offspring with biceps bigger than their heads as the kid grows up, lol.

There could be other more valid reasons why they are that strong at such an age. That's the whole point of this topic to uncover them and compare it to Gohan's upbringing.

Obviously that's not entirely the case. As Gohan and Goten are still Goku's sons, carry his genes and traits, and both carry his blood. So the question is, where does Dragonball draw the line on how much genetics it follows in real life? So far, I haven't seen any reason anywhere(not official, or supplemental) that says anything about this specific part of offspring genetics magically differing from real life.

Surely you don't think muscles has much to do with strength in Dragon Ball, do you? Muten Roshi exhibited more muscles with his 100% Kamehameha than Goku ever did and he is a flea compared to Goku's adult strength.

That alone shows us that it doesn't follow any kind of rule we know about in the real world.

And also you don't see any humans in real life becoming much stronger just because they got their bellies pierced, nearly died and recovered afterwards. For Saiyans that's common.

To me, it seems clear that Dragon Ball doesn't follow or intends to follow any rule of genetics or even science exactly as it exists in real life. It would be wrong therefore to assume that any of those rules apply there exactly as they apply here. Therefore, I don't see the point in dismissing the theory that the Saiyan offspring's strength is greatly influenced by his parents current level of strength just because it doesn't fit in real life genetics. Everything about the Saiyans seems to imply that are made to get stronger. That's how their organism seems to work. Having stronger children as they get stronger seems to fit perfectly with that. And, in my opinion, no other theory explains Goten and Trunks power better than this one. It even might explain why kid Trunks seems to be different power wise compared to Future Trunks, since his warning could have altered things enough for Vegeta to be stronger when he conceived kid Trunks than he was in the future when he conceived future Trunks (the difference could even be that in one reality he already was a SSJ and in the other he still wasn't a SSJ).

[lash]

Surely you don't think muscles has much to do with strength in Dragon Ball, do you? Muten Roshi exhibited more muscles with his 100% Kamehameha than Goku ever did and he is a flea compared to Goku's adult strength.

That alone shows us that it doesn't follow any kind of rule we know about in the real world.

It would be wrong therefore to assume that any of those rules apply there exactly as they apply here. Therefore, I don't see the point in dismissing the theory that the Saiyan offspring's strength is greatly influenced by his parents current level of strength just because it doesn't fit in real life genetics. Everything about the Saiyans seems to imply that are made to get stronger. That's how their organism seems to work. Having stronger children as they get stronger seems to fit perfectly with that. And, in my opinion, no other theory explains Goten and Trunks power better than this one. It even might explain why kid Trunks seems to be different power wise compared to Future Trunks, since his warning could have altered things enough for Vegeta to be stronger when he conceived kid Trunks than he was in the future when he conceived future Trunks (the difference could even be that in one reality he already was a SSJ and in the other he still wasn't a SSJ).

I think you missed the entire point of the example...

Their strength lies in Ki instead of muscle mass. I haven't seen anything anywhere suggesting Ki, which changes as much as human muscle mass has anything to do with handed down genetics.

You're initiating a pretty big fallacy. You're essentially saying, I can make up any theories I want that violate real world principles(specifically ones that weren't already stated or firmly shown to be violated) with the reason being because Dragonball is shown to violate a few real world principles. I may as well put out the theory everyone in Dragonball has multiple lungs, as the reason why Goku and Vegeta are shown to be able to hold their breaths so long(instead of a more easier approach).

[012yArthur0]

Well, I do believe that the main reason is because Goten already know what is a Super Saiyan (Even if he thought it was a monster form, thanks to Chi-Chi statement) so he got the idea of what he needs to do and what happens when you do it.

Still, it doesn't explain how Goten had such big KI even on his base form (compared to Gohan on his same age). Maybe your base form gets stronger when you transform for the first time? Or the fact that he was training against someone whose has the super Saiyan transformation could mean a bigger boost that Piccolo or Guru could ever do?

The "Goku Gene" theory seems solid aswell. But if we take that in account, we can also say that Goten has also a bigger potential than Trunks, since Trunks was born before Vegeta trained at the Hyperbolic Time Chamber (Which was the biggest Ki boost in the Cell Saga) and Chi-Chi probably had a relation with Goku during the training week pre-Cell Games. Well, if we think this through, it is plausable, since trunks was older then Goten and got a better training segment than the same (Gravity technique + Sparring is more effective than just Sparring) and he was around the same power level. However, we don't know how much both did trained, so this is a clouded fact to be used as a proof.

Should we take in mind that the characters personality might have something to do with this? Gohan dislikes fighting, prefering study and a calm life, while Goten is a more "energetic" person. Sure, he has show some carefree acts, but he was more directed to a fighting life than Gohan though, then it may go to a more determined training. Anyway, it's just a opinion, don't be surprised that doesn't make sense.

[caejones]

I would buy Goten being stronger because Goku was stronger only if Goku was in SSJ during conception.
Go figure out how that would work, why don't you.

I'm not entirely sure why haircolor changing in the transformation is treated as an unrealistic effect. Is it more likely that the pigmentation of the hair changes entirely during transformations, or that the hair is just glowing enough to obscure the original color?

Oozaru, on the other hand, is harder to explain than the Rabbits on the moon.

*Ponders a rather silly conservation of ki theory*

[Bussani]

Their strength lies in Ki instead of muscle mass. I haven't seen anything anywhere suggesting Ki, which changes as much as human muscle mass has anything to do with handed down genetics.

Well, Cell has the ki (literally the "same ki") as all of the people whose cells he was created from, so that's...something, I guess.

But yeah, even though the "stronger parents make a strong child" thing is plausible under Dragon Ball's logic, it's not exactly a fact either, and there are plenty of other ways of explaining Goten's power in addition to, or even without that theory. I'm sure we had another thread not long ago that talked about this sort of thing, but I can't find it right at this moment. My personal favorite explanation is that Gohan and Goten were born with similarly high amounts of power due to them being Saiyan-Human hybrids, but while Goten's was out on the surface from the start, Gohan's was always buried and hidden; this could be due to something as simple as the differences in their personalities.

[Fox666]

but while Goten's was out on the surface from the start, Gohan's was always buried and hidden; this could be due to something as simple as the differences in their personalities.

Like the Daizenshuu says, Goten is part of the second generation of tailless super Saiyan-human hybrids.

[son veku]

EDIT I fixed my post above (rereboy)

Also SS2 jizz may have had an effect
I wouldn't be suprised