Power comparison between Goten and Gohan

[dprez]

That was a pretty awesome post Akira. I do think it is a combination of both theories though, perhaps leaning more towards you're theory. Goten and Trunks were conceived by fathers far, far more powerful than the average saiyan, but their upbringing was also far different than any saiyan prior.

[caejones]

Goku was much stronger when Goten was conceived than when Gohan was conceived. This would have an effect if Dragonball genetics are significantly different from real world genetics, or if the transmission of ki is not inherently genetic.

This theory would give Bra the potential of being the strongest of all half-saiyans. Nice.

Heh, well, I wasn't considering Bra or Pan, but...
To be fair, manga-wise we know practically nothing about their potential. Or if Saiyan biology is sexist when it comes to power growth.

[012yArthur0]

Goku was much stronger when Goten was conceived than when Gohan was conceived. This would have an effect if Dragonball genetics are significantly different from real world genetics, or if the transmission of ki is not inherently genetic.

This theory would give Bra the potential of being the strongest of all half-saiyans. Nice.

Heh, well, I wasn't considering Bra or Pan, but...
To be fair, manga-wise we know practically nothing about their potential. Or if Saiyan biology is sexist when it comes to power growth.

Then we COULD say that Pan was actually stronger if she has the "Mystic" transformation though, however, Gohan somehow lost his powers on GT.

[Bussani]

So you mean that Humans trait is the easy adaption for the situations? Well, that's a good point.

It's possibly something as simple as that, yes. It could even be a mix of things. I've even wondered if a hybrid's large dormant power could come from their human side, but becomes exaggerated by Saiyan blood, or is simply allowed to come out by it. Or maybe it's not something that humans have or Saiyans have, but something that only exists when you have an equal amount of both. For every genetic trait a person actually has two copies of a gene--one they inherit from their mother and one they inherit from their father. In some cases, one gene will be dominant and the other won't really do anything, but in other cases, the two genes work together to create a blend; to oversimplify it, something like, "red gene + white gene = pink trait". Whatever makes a hybrid good could be a blend like that.

Well, biologically, Saiyans and Earthlings are pretty damn similar. Maybe they have some kind of history together...?

I know some people like to think that the mysterious "planet Saiya" might in fact be Earth! If we went by the real life definition of "species", anything that can breed and produce fertile offspring of both genders is considered one species, so humans and Saiyans would have to be, too. But I'm okay with letting that slide since it's fiction.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Well, biologically, Saiyans and Earthlings are pretty damn similar. Maybe they have some kind of history together...?

I know some people like to think that the mysterious "planet Saiya" might in fact be Earth! If we went by the real life definition of "species", anything that can breed and produce fertile offspring of both genders is considered one species, so humans and Saiyans would have to be, too. But I'm okay with letting that slide since it's fiction.

Yeah. I don't think that "Planet Saiya" is Earth, and I'm not even sure if it'd still even exist.

[soulnova]

I believe there's a note in a time-line somewhere where they said that Saiyans actually evolved from the Giant Ape form on another planet. They just retained the ability to go back to that state.

In any case I doubt Tarble will be compatible with Gure. Marshmallow x Monkey = ???

[FNF]

Goten rivals SSjin Gohan and Gohan thinks the kids could surpass him in no time. I think that probably speaks volumes of Goten's potential if Gohan thinks that he could surpass him in no time presumably without SSjin2.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I believe there's a note in a time-line somewhere where they said that Saiyans actually evolved from the Giant Ape form on another planet. They just retained the ability to go back to that state.

That actually makes kind of sense, from a DB in-universe pseudo-scientific evolutionary perspective. And maybe they naturally grew up on Planet Saiya around a constant moon, or a recurring moon that gave light (pun intended) to their full powers. And they evolved to have more intelligence and reverted down to a more human, conscious, stable and practical form for battle, especially against opponents that Oozaru would be overkill for.

Goten rivals SSjin Gohan and Gohan thinks the kids could surpass him in no time. I think that probably speaks volumes of Goten's potential if Gohan thinks that he could surpass him in no time presumably without SSjin2.

He doesn't say Goten could surpass him in no time. After being surprised at Goten's strength and how he and Trunks play through "playfighting", Gohan thinks to himself that if he's not careful (meaning, if he doesn't keep up his training), they could surpass him. No amount of time was ever mentioned.

Chapter: 427 (DBZ 233), P12.3-6
Context: after Gohan and Goten spar a little bit
Gohan: “You’re very gifted at grappling too, Goten! You really surprised me! I hadn’t known you were that good! If you train well, maybe you’ll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!”
Goten: “Really!? But Trunks is even stronger than me. We play-fight together!”
Gohan: “Really!? That’s how you guys have been playing?...*thinking* If I’m not careful, I’ll be outstripped…by these little squirts…”

Also, to I and many others, nothing suggested that Goten rivaled Gohan by any means. That Daizenshuu statement was either poorly phrased/translated, or flat-out wrong. At the very least, questionable. The only reason Goten seemed to give Gohan trouble was because he was obviously holding back on his little brother on what was meant to be a sparring session, and was shocked at his strength. Same with Vegeta and Trunks. Vegeta was surprised that his unexpectedly strong son could actually land a hit on his face, but when he broke loose, he lashed back at Trunks and made him cry.

[Bussani]

Also, to I and many others, nothing suggested that Goten rivaled Gohan by any means. That Daizenshuu statement was either poorly phrased/translated, or flat-out wrong. At the very least, questionable. The only reason Goten seemed to give Gohan trouble was because he was obviously holding back on his little brother on what was meant to be a sparring session, and was shocked at his strength. Same with Vegeta and Trunks. Vegeta was surprised that his unexpectedly strong son could actually land a hit on his face, but when he broke loose, he lashed back at Trunks and made him cry.

That quote about Goten being "not in the least bit inferior to Gohan" really is a weird one. If Goten was literally at the same level as Gohan, and Trunks is stated to be stronger than Goten, then Trunks had already surpassed Gohan! That can't be right. That said, I guess I think Goten and Trunks are closer to Gohan than some other people do.

[FNF]

He doesn't say Goten could surpass him in no time. After being surprised at Goten's strength and how he and Trunks play through "playfighting", Gohan thinks to himself that if he's not careful (meaning, if he doesn't keep up his training), they could surpass him. No amount of time was ever mentioned.

'Outstripped' and 'If i'm not careful' certainly suggests they could surpass him in no time.

Also, to I and many others, nothing suggested that Goten rivaled Gohan by any means. That Daizenshuu statement was either poorly phrased/translated, or flat-out wrong. At the very least, questionable. The only reason Goten seemed to give Gohan trouble was because he was obviously holding back on his little brother on what was meant to be a sparring session, and was shocked at his strength. Same with Vegeta and Trunks. Vegeta was surprised that his unexpectedly strong son could actually land a hit on his face, but when he broke loose, he lashed back at Trunks and made him cry.

So Gohan is holding back for blocking hits? Gohan is clearly struggling to block Gotens' hits and if that doesn't suggest Goten rivals Gohan, then that is just ridiculous.

That said, I guess I think Goten and Trunks are closer to Gohan than some other people do.

The certainly are rivaling Gohan unless you think someone much weaker than him can send Boo flying while himself only made Boo stumble a little.

[Super Vegetto]

A gifted child who mastered Super Saiyan at a young age.

By virtue of being Goku's son, Goten posses battle power not the least bit inferior to even Gohan. On top of being able to unleash a startling amount of power in even his normal state, he can easily transform into a Super Saiyan. Furthermore, he merges with Trunks through a technique known as Fusion.

I think that without Vegeta, Trunks wouldnt be so much stronger than gifted Goten who has power that is not the least bit inferior to Teen Gohan.

Gohan is past his prime during the first parts of the Boo Arc, his reflexes are ***** and a fight against somebody from his league would be not in his favor. Goten is a fighter, has great reflexes, gave Gohan huge trouble and that just in a spar.

No wonder that his battle power is not the last bit inferior to even Gohan.

Perhaps this entry is speaking of Goten after the Budokai training, though, since that's when we see them sparring a lot more evenly.

[Bussani]

The certainly are rivaling Gohan unless you think someone much weaker than him can send Boo flying while himself only made Boo stumble a little.

Piccolo sent Freeza flying in pretty much exactly the same way, and I think the difference between Piccolo and Freeza was quite a bit larger than the difference between Trunks and Gohan, even if he was borrowing some remaining ki from Kuririn and Gohan.

[FNF]

The certainly are rivaling Gohan unless you think someone much weaker than him can send Boo flying while himself only made Boo stumble a little.

Piccolo sent Freeza flying in pretty much exactly the same way, and I think the difference between Piccolo and Freeza was quite a bit larger than the difference between Trunks and Gohan, even if he was borrowing some remaining ki from Kuririn and Gohan.

You missed my point

There is an actual comparison between how Teen Gohan does and how Trunks does vs Boo.
The way Piccolo kicked Freeza can't be compared to anyone else because no one did something like that in a similar fashion.

[Bussani]

There is an actual comparison between how Teen Gohan does and how Trunks does vs Boo.
The way Piccolo kicked Freeza can't be compared to anyone else because no one did something like that in a similar fashion.

If we're going to simplify it down to that, wouldn't that make Trunks stronger than Gohan? My point was that these things vary, either because there are other factors to consider besides raw strength, or, if you don't mind out of universe answers, because it doesn't matter to the author.

[FNF]

There is an actual comparison between how Teen Gohan does and how Trunks does vs Boo.
The way Piccolo kicked Freeza can't be compared to anyone else because no one did something like that in a similar fashion.

If we're going to simplify it down to that, wouldn't that make Trunks stronger than Gohan? My point was that these things vary, either because there are other factors to consider besides raw strength, or, if you don't mind out of universe answers, because it doesn't matter to the author.

It could tbh. I don't see anything contradicting Trunks being somewhat stronger than SSjin Teen Gohan post Budokai training (although I don't follow that myself).

That said, Gohan was hit down to the ground before he tried kicking Boo so he could have lost a little power but unless you think he lost over half of his power (which is just ridiculous considering Teen Gohan wasn't quite that much weaker than Boo) there is no way the kids don't at least rival SSjin Teen Gohan.