Post-GT Continuation Idea: 'Dragon Ball R'

MultilangDBZ · Post by **MultilangDBZ** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:29 pm

I'm optimistic about the potential for success in a new Dragon Ball series. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all optimistic about the possibility of being one.) Skip to the bottom of this post for the idea of a 'Dragon Ball R' continuation series after GT, which brings back all the Z characters into the story. But first, I'm going to give a brief comment on GT and what it could/should have been and why it fell short of popularity that had accelerated and caused Dragon Ball's demise.

I thought GT wasn't all that bad, contrary to what many have criticized it for. A lot of Toriyama's flavor in respect to character interaction and humor was kept in, despite losing the adeptness in storyline construction and the building of suspense. However, the reason GT was not that well received was because of it trying to please both DB and DBZ fans at the same time - so it turned out to be neither here nor there. When DBZ took a major turn from the style of DB for good, there was no reason to look back and revisit the DB style in GT. Combining elements of both series may have seemed a novel and refreshing idea, but it left both kinds of viewers insatiated.

If GT had continued the storyline with DBZ and kept Goku as an adult, it might've been very well received. Besides, DBZ was the most popular series out of the two previously, so naturally most people would want to see more of the DBZ style rather than the kid Goku DB style.

I thought GT could have simply continued the plot line from one or two years past the DBZ ending, or just continued right after that point. Toriyama had already aged the characters at the end of DBZ and had not really developed them. There wasn't any need at all to age them again by a decade (and again by a century at the end of the series).

As a result, too much change was brought in considering the strange style and strange timeline introduced in GT. It would've done astronomically better if it had stuck to the DBZ style and continued just briefly afterwards in timeline from the end point in DBZ.

Thus, I am of the opinion that viewers did not simply get bored of Dragon Ball, but that GT had let down viewers with its starkly different style that everyone was unprepared for.

Commercially speaking, a new series in a DBZ-esque style would certainly reap a lot of profits and would have done so had GT been written in such a style.

The possible continuation using the existing GT plot would be rather tricky considering how GT closed the Dragon Ball story for the dead by leaving everyone, but Pan dead - introducing Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr does not help in any continuation series (as they are simply not Goku and Vegeta). It wouldn't be a plausible alternative if the storyline of GT were simply skipped over altogether. It has to continue from the ending of GT. But how can we introduce the old characters in the 100 years later timeline?

Possible ways would include either:

A) Start with old Pan, Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr with a major problem in the storyline right at the very beginning of the new series - something like an all new powerful enemy that will come and destroy the Earth/universe. (Could be similar in tone to the Saiyajin Saga - enemies due to arrive.) Realistically, the two Jr's cannot handle such a powerful enemy for some reason - lack of support, diluted Saiyajin blood etc. So, this would be a great excuse to have King Kai worried and then have Pan tell Goku Jr to find the Dragon Balls for the purpose of wishing the protagonists back - i.e. Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Kuririn, Trunks, Goten, Tenshinhan, Yamucha etc. Using a wish like "Resurrect warriors who have saved or helped saved the Earth before/fought against worst enemies" can do this. Now, I forget if some of them cannot be resurrected again - if this is the case, use Namek Dragon Balls to resurrect those left.

Then you could either stick with continuation i or ii:

i) A future timeline with old protagonists - i.e. Goku and Goku Jr. coexisting along with the gang. Eventually Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr grow up looking different and acting differently - like how Goten did.

ii) Come up with an excuse to have something go bizarre and then have Shenron accidentally turning back time 100 years (due to, say, Goku Jr making a mistake when making the wish), back until the penultimate GT episode timeline - thus, eliminating Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr (or you could say that since they are reincarnations, they are actually Goku and Vegeta anyway). In this timeline, fixing kid Goku back to adult Goku wouldn't be difficult. Continue storyline thereafter - although time on Earth was turned back, the threat still exists as time in the universe continues as normal and the new enemy is still due to arrive on Earth very soon.

OR

B) You could introduce some sort of reincarnation continuation:
Fast forward years later after the Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr have grown up. They turn out to be reincarnations so are actually Goku and Vegeta in disguise. Introduce a new powerful enemy then, but leave Goku and Vegeta outmatched in fight. Have the future Bulma lookalike (does she have a name?) to find the Dragon Balls ASAP and wish back the others like in A(i) above. What about the duplicates - i.e. Goku and Goku Jr. etc? Make the same excuse in A(ii) that since the Jr's are actually reincarnations, they revert back to Goku and Vegeta (as the Jr's are adults, there would be hardly any difference in appearance except that now they have pure Saiyajin blood), and that the Bulma lookalike is actually Bulma reincarnated so then she reverts back as well. All the other characters come back normally without conflict.

All three variations end up with all the characters back into play and also rid seemingly duplicated characters through development. Adult Goku is back, and once again, the major characters of DBZ can continue with the story in a non-GT style after GT. The series can be called Dragon Ball R ('R' for 'Rewind', for the rewinding of time, or 'Reincarnation', depending on which continuation line above is used).

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:18 pm

Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. are not reincarnations of Goku and Vegeta. First off, Goku never died at the end of GT, making reincarnation impossible, and Vegeta's in heaven, prompting the question of why he'd wish to be reincarnated...

Other than that, I love your idea.

MultilangDBZ · Post by **MultilangDBZ** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:32 pm

Really? I thought that at the end of GT, the Goku was simply an image and that he's not actually alive as it's been 100 years. Either that, or Goku's allowed a short time on Earth for a visit.

Oh, and yeah, I used reincarnation as an excuse to have both protagonists back for a continuation series.

Since the storyline is malleable after GT, I've taken the liberty to use it as no one actually ruled out this possibility explicitly. Reincarnation is one of the continuations; 'Rewinding' is another one I mentioned.

And about why Vegeta needs to be reincarnated... well, like I've laid out, as a plotline excuse in order to have him battle against new enemies for the reason that no one is left to protect the Earth and universe from attacks, as with every other Z warrior.

masenko · Post by **masenko** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:05 pm

How about Dragonball ITDDINS : If Toriyama Doesn't Do It No one should...

MultilangDBZ · Post by **MultilangDBZ** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:17 pm

masenko wrote:How about Dragonball ITDDINS : If Toriyama Doesn't Do It No one should...

What I argued about GT above, is that GT was unpopular because of its strange style and not that it's simply not written by Toriyama. I believe that GT was excellent on its own merits alone in assimilating Toriyama's style - just that it strayed too much from the style of DBZ, which most viewers wanted. If GT had reached this standard, there's no reason why a later non-Toriyama written, but Toei animated, series couldn't have been a success if, like I argued, it continued in a DBZ-esque manner. Similarly, a post-GT series would have the same potential for success, if not more.

In respect to purists -- as in if-it's-not-Toriyama-written,-then-it's-not-good,-period-type fans -- well, then there's no way of satisfaction unless Toriyama decides to continue Dragon Ball. I would have no comment in response to such views, except that I would hope that Toriyama changes his mind and continue the series ASAP or that someone can persuade him to do so.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:53 pm

Considering how powerful Goku and Vegeta were at the end of GT, I don't think a continuation series would be good if it brought back the old cast.

I mean, Freeza pretty much ruled the galaxy, and he was nothing by the end of the series. If you go the 'creation' route, you've already had the Androids, Cell (science), Buu (magic), Super 17 (wtf?). They've even had the Dragonballs turned against them and defeated them.

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:58 pm

And about why Vegeta needs to be reincarnated... well, like I've laid out, as a plotline excuse in order to have him battle against new enemies for the reason that no one is left to protect the Earth and universe from attacks, as with every other Z warrior.

Better idea. So he can keep on fighting and somewhat..umm...stay on Earth for quite along time..

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:50 am

Eclipse wrote:
And about why Vegeta needs to be reincarnated... well, like I've laid out, as a plotline excuse in order to have him battle against new enemies for the reason that no one is left to protect the Earth and universe from attacks, as with every other Z warrior.
Better idea. So he can keep on fighting and somewhat..umm...stay on Earth for quite along time..

But with reincarnation you forget who you were since you're now a whole new person. Reincarnation defeats any purpose of being reincarnated.

If I were to continue after GT, I'd make it post-GT special instead of post-GT. Maybe Vegeta Jr is a new bully, so when Goku Jr hears Vegeta Jr is going to fight in the budokai, he could train with Pan. That gives us an introductory arc, training arc, and a Budokai arc before we even have to deal with the events of continuing GT.

Hao_Kaiser · Post by **Hao_Kaiser** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:29 pm

There's already gonna' be a post-GT series, it's gonna be called Dragon Ball AF, and its gonna be so friggin cool, Goku's gonna go SSJ 5 and Gohans gonna turn into Cell and their gonna fuse and kill Yajarobe!!!!1

Just so everyones aware, I'm kidding.

Yeah...

If anything, I'd rather see a series of movies/ specials that are in the same contnuity. I'd really rather not have to collect another full anime series. That, or a series of clip shows.

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:00 pm

Well, for one thing, Goku did not die ... well, he may have been dead in a sense, but really ... it's all up to interpretation; one of the reasons why I love the GT ending so much more than the Z ending (which consisted in the style of a cliffhanger, making Goku out to be all selfish for leaving his family with Uub, leaving the door open for more story development, ect). As seen in the Goku Jr. special, which clearly takes place before episode 64's final 8 minutes, Goku was more than just an image. He was able to not only speak with Goku Jr., but also physically interact with him (handing him the 4-star dragonball, touching his shoulder). My interpretation on that whole issue is sorta similar to the plot of this old live-action show that was on years ago on the USA network. Goku was allowed to come back, he just wasn't allowed to see people he knew in his previous time on Earth before leaving with Shenron; hence why he kept leaving whenever Grandma Pan was on the verge of seeing him.

I think that watching the GT special and final 8 minutes of GT episode 64 is a great way to have the entire DragonBall anime trilogy series culminated, it just gives such a powerful and emotional finish to the whole series that we've all known and loved. Showing how far Goku's family legacy has carried on in this anime Earth is just incredibly fascinating, and as said before, incredibly emotional. Hell, I'm even thinking of burning the special and final 8 minutes of episode 64 (from the FUNi DVDs) to a separate blank DVD with Steve's subtitles and burn it in a fashion to the appearance of one feature-length movie. I can handle the transition between the start of the final Tenkaichi Budokai and the very ending of the special (where the image of Goku in the sky is panned upwards) with each other, so it'd actually flow pretty smoothly. Shoot, maybe I should give a few copies out for free, certainly wouldn't hurt anybody.

Back on the subject of a new series, bad idea, GT ended everything in such a perfect manner, I wouldn't like for another new series to expand upon an already very long anime series.

masenko · Post by **masenko** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:02 pm

Honestly, GT is like Superman III and IV, or the Matrix sequels, I accept the originals as classics and the tacky sequels don't even belong in the same sentence. Maybe Toriyama can continue HIS story after DBZ (I know he had some involvement in GT but obviously, not enough). The events concluded in DBZ leave a perfect time for continuation. Uub's story is much more admirable than some made-for-money cap out story. I would love to see Uub become the new protector of earth and his involvement with the dragonballs as well as other well known characters. It's a perfect fresh start.

The Mole · Post by **The Mole** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:02 pm

What about a series, or manga, that takes place after GT; keeps several of the origional DBZ heros, but at the same time introducing a new line of heros? And some event that takes place where it has nothing to do with the Saiyans, other than the several who protect the Earth. Something which goes back to when the Saiyans were just discovering they had tails, when the Namekians nearly burned their eyes out discovering that they had three suns. How about that?

*cough-DragonBall S-cough*

MultilangDBZ · Post by **MultilangDBZ** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:42 pm

Dayspring wrote:But with reincarnation you forget who you were since you're now a whole new person. Reincarnation defeats any purpose of being reincarnated.

If I were to continue after GT, I'd make it post-GT special instead of post-GT. Maybe Vegeta Jr is a new bully, so when Goku Jr hears Vegeta Jr is going to fight in the budokai, he could train with Pan. That gives us an introductory arc, training arc, and a Budokai arc before we even have to deal with the events of continuing GT.

I assume you mean reincarnation defeats the purpose of reviving characters is what you're saying. However, this can be easily remedied and is only an issue with the two protagonists, Goku and Vegeta. This issue concerns only one of the three plotlines above - the 'Reincarnation' plotline in part B. In order for both Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr to have their past memories would require an excuse (building upon the premise that they are actually reincarnations).

I suppose a plausible excuse could be that amongst King Kai, Kaioshin and Old Kaioshin, one of them can make reincarnated people recall their past lives. After all, it was King Kai who overheard Goku's wish before killing kid Boo to fight with him again one day in Boo's next life as a kind person, after which King Kai granted his wish by reincarnating kid Boo as Oob. Alternatively, simply another Dragon Ball wish would help. Yet another alternative would be to go along some theory that one can actually recall events in their past life using great effort, and that Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr are the few who are capable of doing that.

The post-GT continuation plotlines all have the same theme of reviving the characters from DBZ for reasons stated above. I'm not at all fond of the idea that a continuation is to be based upon the new characters of Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr (even if they both are highly similar to Goku and Vegeta) for the sole reason that both are simply not the protagonists that all the viewers are used to. Substituted characters would simply not be enough. Likewise, if Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr have different personalities, I doubt that it would attract much, if any, popularity with fans. A shining example would be GT - having kid Goku, Trunks and Pan as protagonists instead of the usual gang in DBZ was probably a major reason why GT wasn't well received. Like what I wrote above, it was neither here nor there (neither like DB or DBZ). If a change like this initiated in GT could cause Dragon Ball to plummet to its death, imagine how much worse it would be to base the storyline upon the new characters Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr that do not bear any resemblance to the previous protagonists.

Even with all that being said, your suggestion is very sound on the basis of having resembling arcs of introduction, training, Budokai, fighting etc.

MultilangDBZ · Post by **MultilangDBZ** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 10:57 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:[Elaboration on Goku in the GT ending.]

Back on the subject of a new series, bad idea, GT ended everything in such a perfect manner, I wouldn't like for another new series to expand upon an already very long anime series.

I too loved the GT ending which was superior to DBZ's in every way. It was absolutely emotional during the part where Goku walks the long path outside of the Budokai after old Pan fails to catch him at the very end with the flashbacks and the images of all the characters, whilst Sabitsuita Machine Gun (or was it Dan Dan Kokoro Hikarete ku) was playing in the background.

Even so, people like me are never satiated and don't appreciate good endings as much as continuity. Reliving the past was and will never be enough for me.

MultilangDBZ · Post by **MultilangDBZ** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:05 pm

The Mole wrote:*cough-DragonBall S-cough*

Nice. While I was on about 'Dragon Ball R' for my post-GT continuation, you came up with a 'Dragon Ball S'.

Now all that's missing is a 'Dragon Ball Super-S'. Sailor Moon, anyone?

B-kun · Post by **B-kun** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 11:23 pm

Dragon Ball SuperS (it's pronounced "Supaazu" in the eyecatches) - Due to a freak time travel incident, 7 year old Goten ends up in the same time as GT. He and Pan go on adventures while the older, more developed characters are ignored.

Sounds like a success to me!

I'm so mean.

The Mole · Post by **The Mole** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:22 am

Here is the DragonBall S preview: http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=2726

Domon · Post by **Domon** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 10:29 am

MultilangDBZ wrote:
The Mole wrote:*cough-DragonBall S-cough*
Nice. While I was on about 'Dragon Ball R' for my post-GT continuation, you came up with a 'Dragon Ball S'.

Now all that's missing is a 'Dragon Ball Super-S'. Sailor Moon, anyone?

What about Dragonball Stars? Where we're introduced to three sex-changing Saiyans that poses as a Boys Band (which Pan and Bra falls head over heels for), while searching for their Princess, and the final episode features Goku naked and defeats the villain with the power of love.

Er... doesn't have the same ring to it.

t-bone135 · Post by **t-bone135** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:34 pm

Domon wrote:
MultilangDBZ wrote:
The Mole wrote:*cough-DragonBall S-cough*
Nice. While I was on about 'Dragon Ball R' for my post-GT continuation, you came up with a 'Dragon Ball S'.

Now all that's missing is a 'Dragon Ball Super-S'. Sailor Moon, anyone?
What about Dragonball Stars? Where we're introduced to three sex-changing Saiyans that poses as a Boys Band (which Pan and Bra falls head over heels for), while searching for their Princess, and the final episode features Goku naked and defeats the villain with the power of love.

Er... doesn't have the same ring to it.

No, it doesn't. Who would the villian be anyway? Good Kami, that one certianly wouldn't be a kid's show anymore!

gohanku · Post by **gohanku** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:51 pm

Domon wrote:What about Dragonball Stars? Where we're introduced to three sex-changing Saiyans that poses as a Boys Band (which Pan and Bra falls head over heels for), while searching for their Princess, and the final episode features Goku naked and defeats the villain with the power of love.

That just is creepy

, sex-changing Saiyans and naked Goku defeating a villain with the power of love?!? That will be the movie/series that will scar my life forever.

Kanzenshuu

Post-GT Continuation Idea: 'Dragon Ball R'

Post-GT Continuation Idea: 'Dragon Ball R'

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