Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Nex Carnifex
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by Nex Carnifex » Wed May 30, 2012 9:30 pm
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Maybe Redgic trained with his planet's Kami too. Maybe Redgic was also a mutant of his race, or a hybrid. Also, Freeza and his clan were random guys too, guys with unbelievable power which came out of nowhere. Maybe scientists increased his power with unknown to us methods. There are many possibilities. The universe is huge, even in Dragon Ball we don't know everything about it. As for him not displaying having enough power to destroy a solar system, Kuririn, #18, Oob, and many others can destroy planets, but never did. Not doing something doesn't mean he can't do it. And why the hell should he destroy a solar system? It's not like he was a bad guy.
I'm not saying he's a plot hole, you can come up with all sorts of wacky ridiculous explanations for how he's 1000s of times stronger than planet busting gods, it doesn't make him any less silly though, and it doesn't change the fact they never attempted to explain how. The Dragon Ball Universe is very small, Freeza owned an entire 4th of it
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DarkPrince_92
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by DarkPrince_92 » Wed May 30, 2012 9:42 pm
All of GT is just silly.
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Insertclevername
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by Insertclevername » Wed May 30, 2012 10:16 pm
Nex Carnifex wrote:The Dragon Ball Universe is very small, Freeza owned an entire 4th of it
Umm... Where was it ever stated or hinted that the DB universe is small or that Freeza owned all of the northern quadrant?
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Gonstead
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by Gonstead » Wed May 30, 2012 10:50 pm
Nex Carnifex wrote:The Dragon Ball Universe is very small, Freeza owned an entire 4th of it
He owned 1/4th of the Northern Galaxy, not Universe if I remember correctly.
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smantooth6
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by smantooth6 » Wed May 30, 2012 11:36 pm
DarkPrince_92 wrote:All of GT is just silly.
Couldn't agree with you more.
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Nex Carnifex
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by Nex Carnifex » Thu May 31, 2012 12:11 am
Gonstead wrote:Nex Carnifex wrote:The Dragon Ball Universe is very small, Freeza owned an entire 4th of it
He owned 1/4th of the Northern Galaxy, not Universe if I remember correctly.
No it was that he controlled most of the northern Galaxy, which is a fourth of the universe, at least fourth of the 'main' part.
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Bussani
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by Bussani » Thu May 31, 2012 1:08 am
I don't think any exact numbers were even given for how large Freeza's "empire" was, so I don't know where this idea that he owned a fourth of anything comes from. Dragon Ball has always been vague about how many galaxies there are. We know for a fact that the universe is split into four, but not for sure whether that means there are only four galaxies, or if there are four areas, each with numerous galaxies. This mostly comes from the fact that the Japanese doesn't use plurals, so when Kaio says, "I'm the Kaio of the North Galaxy," he could also be saying, "I'm the Kaio of the North Galaxies." They also use the term "areas" a few times instead of "galaxies". The guides mention there being four galaxies, however, so maybe there really are only four.
Also, keep in mind that, according to the cosmos map, at least, Planet Namek isn't part of the North Galaxy/Area. Kaio mentions this when he says it's beyond his jurisdiction, too. Technically, we don't even know if any of the planets Freeza owns are in the North Galaxy or elsewhere. But they obviously decided to send Goku to Earth, so I suppose they must have had their eyes set on it to an extent!
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Thu May 31, 2012 12:40 pm
Nex Carnifex wrote:No it was that he controlled most of the northern Galaxy, which is a fourth of the universe, at least fourth of the 'main' part.
Care to post the source of this?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Nex Carnifex
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by Nex Carnifex » Thu May 31, 2012 7:36 pm
Bussani wrote:I don't think any exact numbers were even given for how large Freeza's "empire" was, so I don't know where this idea that he owned a fourth of anything comes from. Dragon Ball has always been vague about how many galaxies there are. We know for a fact that the universe is split into four, but not for sure whether that means there are only four galaxies, or if there are four areas, each with numerous galaxies. This mostly comes from the fact that the Japanese doesn't use plurals, so when Kaio says, "I'm the Kaio of the North Galaxy," he could also be saying, "I'm the Kaio of the North Galaxies." They also use the term "areas" a few times instead of "galaxies". The guides mention there being four galaxies, however, so maybe there really are only four.
Also, keep in mind that, according to the cosmos map, at least, Planet Namek isn't part of the North Galaxy/Area. Kaio mentions this when he says it's beyond his jurisdiction, too. Technically, we don't even know if any of the planets Freeza owns are in the North Galaxy or elsewhere. But they obviously decided to send Goku to Earth, so I suppose they must have had their eyes set on it to an extent!
I thought it was implied that he held an iron fist over pretty much the entire galaxy, at least it says that on everything I've looked up on the internet though I have yet to see a source. King Kai clearly is very afraid and very knowledgeable about him, and Frieza is pretty confident he is unstoppable which makes sense given he can blow up a planet with his finger and out of all the 1000s of different races he owns none of them stand a chance. Also the only reason they went to Namek was because Frieza was spying on Vegeta's scouter and overheard them talking about the Dragon Balls there. Either way, even with his notoriety throughout the universe he had no enemies up until Goku came with his ridiculous amount of constant power-ups, feared even by the overseer of that Galaxy/collection of Galaxies. And Dragon Ball doesn't end there, the characters power up even more and interact with the gods of the entire universe to stop universal threats, probably having the ability to destroy stars and solar systems if they wanted or needed too, just making a random alien who works as a small time bodyguard that strong without saying why is incredibly silly.
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Rostir
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by Rostir » Thu May 31, 2012 7:41 pm
My biggest problem with GT is how most of the fighters didn't fight, and didn't get more powerful. What I was always looking forward to, was Goten being a better fighter or surpassing Gohan or even Goku and that never happened. Everyone had so much potential to be much more, I'm referring mostly to the older half human half saiyans.
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Nex Carnifex
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by Nex Carnifex » Thu May 31, 2012 9:29 pm
I know this is in Z filler as well but why do Cell and Frieza have their bodies in Hell? I thought their bodies were obliterated and if they did have bodies wouldn't they kill Yemma at the check in station?
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by Insertclevername » Thu May 31, 2012 9:38 pm
Rostir wrote:My biggest problem with GT is how most of the fighters didn't fight, and didn't get more powerful. What I was always looking forward to, was Goten being a better fighter or surpassing Gohan or even Goku and that never happened. Everyone had so much potential to be much more, I'm referring mostly to the older half human half saiyans.
I agree and same goes for Uub. I mean he was supposed to be the successor to Gokuu but he brought nothing to the table except make a quick fight with Bebi and well, thats about it. If it was up to me, I would have focused it on Uub, Trunks, Pan and Goten going on the adventure, since there is a lot of unexplored territory that could have been used.
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Aoi
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by Aoi » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:14 pm
lol. GT is only enjoyable if you view it as a joke series. In the original DragonBall series so many things barely made any sense. Goku's pants fits in with the : "just let go and enjoy" mentality that I frankly loved about DB. Believe me, the expectations were so well established by Toriyama that when Tien grew his extra 2 arms I just said: "Ok...Cool".
Yet people have issues with GT's logic.
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son veku
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by son veku » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:29 pm
Pan never went SS in GT
Trunks is just horrible if anything he got weaker yet he could drive baby out of his mind.
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Nex Carnifex
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by Nex Carnifex » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:19 pm
Aoi wrote:lol. GT is only enjoyable if you view it as a joke series. In the original DragonBall series so many things barely made any sense. Goku's pants fits in with the : "just let go and enjoy" mentality that I frankly loved about DB. Believe me, the expectations were so well established by Toriyama that when Tenshinhan grew his extra 2 arms I just said: "Ok...Cool".
Yet people have issues with GT's logic.
Tenshinhan at least did something to summon the arms Goku just suddenly had pants out of nowhere lol. Would've been less silly if they had just acknowledged that SS4's were magical because I don't think pants really make sense as part of the natural Saiyan biology. And being a joke series doesn't forgiven flat out inconsistency. The only thing in Dragon Ball really stretching it was the trip to the moon, GT is just constantly that silly by accident.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:22 pm
Nex Carnifex wrote:Would've been less silly if they had just acknowledged that SS4's were magical because I don't think pants really make sense as part of the natural Saiyan biology.
It just magic, the clothes come from Goku's imagination. I would
never want to see his SSJ4 dick... ever.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Nex Carnifex
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by Nex Carnifex » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:03 pm
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Nex Carnifex wrote:Would've been less silly if they had just acknowledged that SS4's were magical because I don't think pants really make sense as part of the natural Saiyan biology.
It just magic, the clothes come from Goku's imagination. I would
never want to see his SSJ4 dick... ever.
your username...what does it mean
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Gonstead
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by Gonstead » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:07 pm
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Nex Carnifex wrote:Would've been less silly if they had just acknowledged that SS4's were magical because I don't think pants really make sense as part of the natural Saiyan biology.
It just magic, the clothes come from Goku's imagination. I would
never want to see his SSJ4 dick... ever.
Chi-Chi sure would...
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Mayuri Kurotsuchi wrote:"In this world, nothing perfect exists. It may be a cliche after all but it's the way things are. That's precisely why ordinary men pursue the concept of perfection, it's infatuation. But ultimately I have to ask myself "What is the true meaning of being perfect?" and the answer I came up with was nothing. Not one thing. The truth of the matter is I despise perfection! If something is truly perfect, that's IT! The bottom line becomes there is no room for imagination! No space for intelligence or ability or improvement! Do you understand? To men of science like us, perfection is a dead end, a condition of hopelessness. Always strive to be better than anything that came before you but not perfect! Scientist's agonize over the attempt to achieve perfection! That's the kind of creatures we are! We take joy in trying to exceed our grasp, in trying to reach for something that in the end, we have to admit may in fact be unreachable!"
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Bussani
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by Bussani » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:22 pm
Doesn't the fusion dance also make clothes out of thin air? Not just any clothes, either--the clothes of the people who invented the technique. How does that work? And where do their normal clothes go until the fusion is over? I think a lot of people write it off as magic, but it doesn't seem too different from what happens with Super Saiyan 4.
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Nex Carnifex
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by Nex Carnifex » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:43 am
Bussani wrote:Doesn't the fusion dance also make clothes out of thin air? Not just any clothes, either--the clothes of the people who invented the technique. How does that work? And where do their normal clothes go until the fusion is over? I think a lot of people write it off as magic, but it doesn't seem too different from what happens with Super Saiyan 4.
The fusion dance is already a magical ritual so it makes much more sense.
