Silly things in GT

[Bussani]

Where is it said to be a magical ritual? I think people have just decided that because it makes more sense to them.

[Nex Carnifex]

Where is it said to be a magical ritual? I think people have just decided that because it makes more sense to them.

I don't know, a strange dance suddenly causes 2 people to literally become one person for a time limit, sounds like magic to me.

[Bussani]

I don't know, a strange dance suddenly causes 2 people to literally become one person for a time limit, sounds like magic to me.

Well, yeah. That's why I said it's just something people seem to assume because it makes sense to them.

This somehow got me thinking in a way I haven't looked at it before. What if Super Saiyan 4's appearance isn't genetic? Super Saiyan 4 is what happens when a Saiyan takes control of the Golden Oozaru's power, reins it in, and takes on a form better suited for battle, right? So what if the form is based on that requirement? What if, in some way, the Super Saiyan 4 shape was based on Goku's desire, will, maybe his subconscious? It would not only explain the pants, but it could also work as another explanation for Goku becoming an adult whenever he goes Super Saiyan 4. He wanted a body suited for fighting, so he took on a form that was in its prime.

I'll bet a lot of people won't like the idea for one reason or another, but I think it's kind of cool, and it's certainly not unprecedented in anime. In a way, it would make Super Saiyan 4's form kind of similar to one of Oolong and Puar's transformations.

[Rostir]

The whole ordeal with how SSJ4 works exactly was always very off-putting. SSJ4 actually looks like what the first form of SSJ should have looked like from the start.

In a logical sense golden hair looks less like a Super Saiyan than red monkey hair, black hair, and a tail. Golden hair should have been SSJ4, symbolizing a more grand transformation.

[Saiga]

I disagree. Red fur should never have been a part of any Super Saiyan transformation.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I disagree. Red fur should never have been a part of any Super Saiyan transformation.

Should have been a part of EVERY transformation, and not just Saiyans. =P

[Insertclevername]

I think SSJ4 should have just stood on its own be called something else.

[son veku]

I disagree. Red fur should never have been a part of any Super Saiyan transformation.

Indeed \[o.o]/

[Nex Carnifex]

I don't know, a strange dance suddenly causes 2 people to literally become one person for a time limit, sounds like magic to me.

Well, yeah. That's why I said it's just something people seem to assume because it makes sense to them.

This somehow got me thinking in a way I haven't looked at it before. What if Super Saiyan 4's appearance isn't genetic? Super Saiyan 4 is what happens when a Saiyan takes control of the Golden Oozaru's power, reins it in, and takes on a form better suited for battle, right? So what if the form is based on that requirement? What if, in some way, the Super Saiyan 4 shape was based on Goku's desire, will, maybe his subconscious? It would not only explain the pants, but it could also work as another explanation for Goku becoming an adult whenever he goes Super Saiyan 4. He wanted a body suited for fighting, so he took on a form that was in its prime.

I'll bet a lot of people won't like the idea for one reason or another, but I think it's kind of cool, and it's certainly not unprecedented in anime. In a way, it would make Super Saiyan 4's form kind of similar to one of Oolong and Puar's transformations.

Vegeta became the same thing just instead of pants he got new gloves and bluer jeans. So your theory can't be true.

[Rostir]

I disagree. Red fur should never have been a part of any Super Saiyan transformation.

What if the fur was brown instead?

[Saiga]

I disagree. Red fur should never have been a part of any Super Saiyan transformation.

What if the fur was brown instead?

That would be a major improvement because it would make sense (the brown coming from the Oozaru). I have been unsuccessful of finding fanart of it, unfortunately.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I don't see the big deal. Red and brown are so close that it makes a hell of a lot more sense for the fur to shift between the two for that transformation than it did for than blonde hair popping out of nowhere for everything else (Toriyama's laziness and sympathy for his assistant aside).

[Rostir]

I don't see the big deal. Red and brown are so close that it makes a hell of a lot more sense for the fur to shift between the two for that transformation than it did for than blonde hair popping out of nowhere for everything else (Toriyama's laziness and sympathy for his assistant aside).

Yes, finally someone agrees.

If SSJ4 was actually what Goku looked like when he first fought Freeza, (red/brown), it would have had a bigger impact. There would be no question what transformed into, and he would be more terrified of Goku given his appearance.

[Saiga]

Meh, I hate the red fur. It has no connection to the Oozaru or Super Saiyan forms. At least the blonde hair for the Super Saiyan forms looks good.

[El Diabeetus]

Meh, I hate the red fur. It has no connection to the Oozaru or Super Saiyan forms. At least the blonde hair for the Super Saiyan forms looks good.

I personally thought the SSJ4 form looked good, after SSJ3 it would of been hard to make a gold form look good. It kind of stared looking ridiculous after SSJ3. But, I can see where you're going with the lack of connections to previous forms; however, I still liked SSJ4, it was hard to be original after 3 gold forms and to relate to the Oozaru is tough. At least SSJ4 tried to related the simian/monkey aspect to it. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. But, I figured I'd include mine.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I agree about the SS hair, but I also think the red fur looks good and has more of a connection to the Oozaru fur than you are giving it credit for. Going with a Japanesey-Toriyama style answer, "Both forms have the same fur! To help contrast the Oozaru's subdued colors, Super Saiyan 4 fur loses some of its green pigment and becomes red to fit the transformations wilder and exciting image! Perhaps this is a side-effect of combining Super Saiyan and Oozaru in a new body?!".

Makes as much sense as recessive tail traits and water nutrient enzymes. =P

[Saiga]

I agree about the SS hair, but I also think the red fur looks good and has more of a connection to the Oozaru fur than you are giving it credit for. Going with a Japanesey-Toriyama style answer, "Both forms have the same fur! To help contrast the Oozaru's subdued colors, Super Saiyan 4 fur loses some of its green pigment and becomes red to fit the transformations wilder and exciting image! Perhaps this is a side-effect of combining Super Saiyan and Oozaru in a new body?!".

Makes as much sense as recessive tail traits and water nutrient enzymes. =P

The man who designed SS4 flat out states that the red fur is there because it "looks strong".

Still would have preferred brown/black fur.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

I'm aware, but the same argument works with regular old Super Saiyan too. The blonde hair doesn't really make sense given the Saiyan's forms before it AND all of Vegeta's talk of ascending, despite the fact that he never changed physically (back when we didn't even know it was a transformation). No matter how you try to explain it though, the fact remains that Toriyama flat out states that it was only because it would look different and they didn't have to color in the hair black anymore. There was no logic to it the same way there wasn't any for SS4, it was just done to be done...

[Bussani]

Vegeta became the same thing just instead of pants he got new gloves and bluer jeans. So your theory can't be true.

I knew someone would say this, but I don't see how it invalidates the idea. Vegeta saw Goku's Super Saiyan 4, so he copied it.

[Saiga]

I'm aware, but the same argument works with regular old Super Saiyan too. The blonde hair doesn't really make sense given the Saiyan's forms before it AND all of Vegeta's talk of ascending, despite the fact that he never changed physically (back when we didn't even know it was a transformation). No matter how you try to explain it though, the fact remains that Toriyama flat out states that it was only because it would look different and they didn't have to color in the hair black anymore. There was no logic to it the same way there wasn't any for SS4, it was just done to be done...

But by that stage, both Super Saiyan and Oozaru are established things. SS4 doesn't really work as a hybrid of the two with random ass red fur.