Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for international?

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Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for international?

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:57 pm

Nippon DB:
Dragon Ball Heroes
Dragon Ball SD
Dragon Ball Zenkai Battle Royale
Dragon Ball Kai
Dragon Ball Episode of Bardock
Dragon Ball Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans
Dragon Ball Yo Son Goku and His Friends Return
Dragon Ball Ultimate Blast
Dragon Ball Kai Ultimate Butoden
Dragon Ball Tag VS

International DB:
Dragon Ball Z Kai
Dragon Ball Z Ultimate Tenkaichi
Dragon Ball Z Tenkaichi Tag Team
(can't think of any newer international DB releases)

Dragon Ball Z has been around for more than 20 years now and it really isn't necessary to have the Z in all Dragon Ball games, so, I'd like to ask, is Dragon Ball Z what makes Dragon Ball sell internationally? :?

For example, for me, the Dragon Ball Z Kai logo ruined the Kai series a bit, just due to the logo as it took some of its original Japanese title away.

Image

Image

When listening to the Japanese track in the NEP Goku doesn't say Doragon Boru Zetto Kai, but Doragon Boru Kai and the subtitles say Dragon Ball Z Kai.
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by Son Satan » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:14 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:When listening to the Japanese track in the NEP Goku doesn't say Doragon Boru Zetto Kai, but Doragon Boru Kai and the subtitles say Dragon Ball Z Kai.
That's probably something that Toei wanted for whatever reason. They're the ones who added the Z to Kai for overseas markets, so it makes sense.

Anyway, to answer your question, I do think the "Z" is what sells, at least in North America. Most people remember Z and only Z, so it's marketed to them. Also, with Z being the more "action" of the two series, people will associate it with the action show they saw 15 years ago much more than a Dragon Ball branding would cause them to.
Most casual people I talk to condense the whole saga into one big clump of Z, almost in reverse to what the manga does (everything being just plain Dragon Ball and all).
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by tinlunlau » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:15 am

For the Hong Kong airings of Dragon Ball Kai, they've dropped the "Z".
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by kei17 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:24 am

tinlunlau wrote:For the Hong Kong airings of Dragon Ball Kai, they've dropped the "Z".
They call the show 龍珠改 (Dragon Ball Kai), but the actual footage does say "Z Kai".

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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by rereboy » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:28 am

In the Kai case, it makes much more sense to keep the Z than simply dropping it.

Kai is a re-edit and a re-dub of the DBZ anime after all and only that. Calling it simply Dragon ball is misleading since it has nothing to do with the Dragon Ball anime that came before Z.

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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by kei17 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:50 am

rereboy wrote:In the Kai case, it makes much more sense to keep the Z than simply dropping it.

Kai is a re-edit and a re-dub of the DBZ anime after all and only that. Calling it simply Dragon ball is misleading since it has nothing to do with the Dragon Ball anime that came before Z.
Agreed. I've seen a lot of Japanese people bitching about Kai skipping the pre-Z story though the title doesn't say Z, which means that Dragon Ball Kai was rather misleading even in Japan. However, it's sort of less misleading there considering that people know what Kai means. The word kai tells you that the show is a rehashed thing instead of a whole new series. I guess it's why the show is called just Kai in Hong Kong, too.

So, without "Z" and the knowledge about kanji, the title would be pretty confusing. It makes sense to add Z in the title for the cultures that do not use chinese characters.
Last edited by kei17 on Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:53 am

rereboy wrote:In the Kai case, it makes much more sense to keep the Z than simply dropping it.

Kai is a re-edit and a re-dub of the DBZ anime after all and only that. Calling it simply Dragon ball is misleading since it has nothing to do with the Dragon Ball anime that came before Z.
Well, it's not Dragon Ball (Z): Kai, but Dragon Ball (Z) Kai. Same with SD, Heroes and Online.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by SilverPlaqueVII » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:54 am

In that case, the "Z" and "GT" could be retired as well in Japan and International. All Dragon Ball characters, likenesses, and properties that used "Z" and "GT" monikers are simply referred to as "DRAGON BALL". It's like Kentucky Fried Chicken became "KFC" and World Wrestling Entertainment as "WWE" in terms of "orphanage".
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by dbboxkaifan » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:29 am

SilverPlaqueVII wrote:In that case, the "Z" and "GT" could be retired as well in Japan and International. All Dragon Ball characters, likenesses, and properties that used "Z" and "GT" monikers are simply referred to as "DRAGON BALL". It's like Kentucky Fried Chicken became "KFC" and World Wrestling Entertainment as "WWE" in terms of "orphanage".
I'd like that.

I've seen some English DB fans that refer to Dragon Ball Heroes as "Dragon Ball Z Heroes", there isn't any Z in Dragon Ball Heroes, or Dragon Ball Online to Dragon Ball Z Online.

Son Satan answered my question but still why the hell is the Z so important to have in all DB franchises. Let Dragon Ball Z die already. :|
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:47 am

Yes. The era of Z is long over, and since Kai is over in Japan too, every product should be just Dragon Ball, except if the products are associated with Dragon Ball Online, Dragon Ball Heroes or Dragon Ball SD, since these are ongoing projects.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by tinlunlau » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:09 am

kei17 wrote:
tinlunlau wrote:For the Hong Kong airings of Dragon Ball Kai, they've dropped the "Z".
They call the show 龍珠改 (Dragon Ball Kai), but the actual footage does say "Z Kai".
Oh, really? The Cantonese dub that I saw, had the dub audio mixed in with the bluray rip so I have yet to see the actual TV rip as aired on TVB. I'm really disappointed with the lack of anime on TVB's new summer schedule. I guess I'll probably check their new dub of "Tiger & Bunny" when that starts to air.
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by kei17 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:32 am

tinlunlau wrote:Oh, really? The Cantonese dub that I saw, had the dub audio mixed in with the bluray rip so I have yet to see the actual TV rip as aired on TVB.
Here's a screencap.
Image

BTW, you should not talk lightly about such pirated BD/TV rips on this forum. You can be warned by moderators.

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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by SilverPlaqueVII » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:53 pm

tinlunlau wrote:
kei17 wrote:
tinlunlau wrote:For the Hong Kong airings of Dragon Ball Kai, they've dropped the "Z".
They call the show 龍珠改 (Dragon Ball Kai), but the actual footage does say "Z Kai".
Oh, really? The Cantonese dub that I saw, had the dub audio mixed in with the bluray rip so I have yet to see the actual TV rip as aired on TVB. I'm really disappointed with the lack of anime on TVB's new summer schedule. I guess I'll probably check their new dub of "Tiger & Bunny" when that starts to air.
Although it spells like this (ドラゴンボール改), that can be understanding with the name "Dragon Ball Revised".

Anyway, since Z and GT should be killed off, every merchandise and video games must have the "Dragon Ball" name on it. But hey, why the new game "Dragon Ball Z for Kinect" used the Z name when it's supposed to be "Dragon Ball for Kinect". :lol: :lol:

EDIT: That cover should've been like this:

Image
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by dbboxkaifan » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:22 pm

"Dragon Ball For Kinect" this title sounds and looks so much better than the originally used for it, it really is a shame it isn't "Dragon Ball For Kinect".

I honestly would like an international release of Dragon Ball Heroes (Arcade Machines / PC / Consoles / Mobile Phones), but thinking about this whole Z-thing, it'd be "Dragon Ball Z Heroes" so it'd probably better stay exclusive to Japan. Unless the title's the original.

Toei Animation & Namco Bandai have to let go Dragon Ball Z if they want Dragon Ball to move forward.
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by Akumaito Beam » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:42 pm

I do find it funny how the more casual fans I talk to out and about never, ever just say "Dragon Ball", they always make sure to say "Dragon Ball Z". It seems incredibly superfluous to me but I think it goes to show "Dragon Ball Z" is just the name of the show to a lot of people. "Dragon Ball" is the one where Goku is a kid that they didn't really watch or like too much but Z is the "original" series with the kickin' rad Super Saiyans and grunting muscle guys and KI beams and the "GWWAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHWWAAAAAGGGGHHHHRRRRRRR" etc. etc. etc.

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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by SilverPlaqueVII » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:48 pm

Akumaito Beam wrote:I do find it funny how the more casual fans I talk to out and about never, ever just say "Dragon Ball", they always make sure to say "Dragon Ball Z". It seems incredibly superfluous to me but I think it goes to show "Dragon Ball Z" is just the name of the show to a lot of people. "Dragon Ball" is the one where Goku is a kid that they didn't really watch or like too much but Z is the "original" series with the kickin' rad Super Saiyans and grunting muscle guys and KI beams and the "GWWAAAAAAAAGGGGHHHWWWAAAAAAAHHHHHWWAAAAAGGGGHHHHRRRRRRR" etc. etc. etc.
Even they keep "Dragon Ball GT" out of their heads despite though is "Z". They prefer "Z" over "GT". I dropped the bombshell when Dragon Ball is said on Wikipedia. The games reffered to as "DRAGONBALL Z" needs to let go like Raging Blast did. Even YouTube titles referred to some videos as "Dragon Ball Z" even though my AMVs are simply as "Dragon Ball".
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by Metalwario64 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:53 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:I honestly would like an international release of Dragon Ball Heroes (Arcade Machines / PC / Consoles / Mobile Phones), but thinking about this whole Z-thing, it'd be "Dragon Ball Z Heroes" so it'd probably better stay exclusive to Japan. Unless the title's the original.
You'd seriously rather a game not be released internationally because of one letter in the title??

I heavily disagree. I'm sorry, but i strongly believe those are some screwed up priorities... :|
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:06 pm

The manga itself is just called "Dragon Ball" and I personally like it that away. To me, the whole series is one big story and I don't mind if more DBZ related titles drop the Z in the title.
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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by kei17 » Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:58 am

dbboxkaifan wrote:"Dragon Ball For Kinect" this title sounds and looks so much better than the originally used for it, it really is a shame it isn't "Dragon Ball For Kinect".

I honestly would like an international release of Dragon Ball Heroes (Arcade Machines / PC / Consoles / Mobile Phones), but thinking about this whole Z-thing, it'd be "Dragon Ball Z Heroes" so it'd probably better stay exclusive to Japan. Unless the title's the original.

Toei Animation & Namco Bandai have to let go Dragon Ball Z if they want Dragon Ball to move forward.
They named the game Dragon Ball Z For Kinect because it focuses on the Z era and its characters. They do not name those games Dragon Ball Z only because casual consumers love DBZeee which is full of stupid yells, punches and laser beams like you think. Dragon Ball Heroes is a game that features a parallel universe with characters from both Z and GT, so if it's released in the US, there would be few reasons to name it Dragon Ball Z Heroes.

But anyway, if they have been releasing video games under the name of DBZ just because DBZ is more famous and appealing, that would still be fairly understandable. You know, it's a business. They have to give appealing names to their products to sell them more. They have no responsibility for not using Z even for products that feature the Z era because of a puristic reason like making Dragon Ball move forward.

To me, it seems that you think that they don't use the name DBZ anymore in Japan for such a reason, but that's wrong. They stopped using DBZ for moving comsumers' focus to Kai, which is newer and hotter. After making the shift to Kai, releasing something under the name of DBZ would be confusing and snag the Kai merchandising they want to sell, so games featuring the Z era and focused on older fans lack Z in their names. Letting Z lack would be more appearling than using the Kai brand which older fans are not used to. Once again, it's a business. Everything is decided for dinero.

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Re: Should the "Z" in Dragon Ball be dropped for internation

Post by TonyTheTiger » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:22 am

This kind of weirdness extends even further back. Dragon Ball: Final Bout was released in North America as Dragon Ball GT: Final Bout despite GT being just about entirely unknown at the time outside of the die hards.

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