Women voicing men, Tanaka's Kuririn, etc.

[LiamKav]

EDIT: That being said though, Nozawa is definetly a terrific actor, no doubt about that...just miscast in my opinion.

But then, do you think she was miscast as child Goku in DragonBall? And if you did, would you recast her after over 100 episodes just because Goku grew up? Wouldn't that have sounded more weird?

[Piccolo Daimao]

At least Kuririn's young voice sounds vaguely like his adult voice...

Except that Steele's Kuririn sounded a little raspy. Then again, so does Strait's Kuririn.

And yeah, the Bart Simpson example is as best as any, because Nancy Cartwright pretty much makes the character. Comedy or not (that's, frankly, irrelevant), it would be jarring, even for little kids, to hear a grown-up and adult male voice coming out of adult Bart Simpson's voice, when they've been so used for Cartwright's voice coming out of Bart. He's grown-up, but he's still Bart. Granted, it's in the flashbacks, but that doesn't matter.

Same with Nozawa's Gokuu. I admit that her little "Kkhh" noise she makes when she's struggling is annoying, and she does sound a bit too high-pitched at times, but on the whole, it's a natural evolution of the character that she'd been voicing since he was a child. Japan liked her, Toei liked her, so why change him? I think the real problem that I have is that she's voicing teen Gohan, Bardock and Tullece, three characters that are distinctly different from Gokuu, regardless of appearance and family. I don't care what anyone says; that voice coming out of Bardock does not work.

And I'm still confused as to why some people are fine with Tanaka's Kuririn, but not Nozawa's Gokuu. I mean, it has more precedent behind it because Kuririn's a shrimp who often undergoes bouts of cowardice and low self-esteem, but he's still an adult male, is he not? Sonny Strait, an adult male, voiced him fine, especially in Kai. But Gokuu, a childlike bumpkin, doesn't get that pass because...he looks too tall and muscular to have that voice? That just seems like a strange reasoning to me.

[VegettoEX]

No, no. People complain that the entire cast is voiced by females, Horikawa and Furukawa are too high-pitched, and so on and so forth. You're reading too many logical and halfway-understandable viewpoints, it seems.

[LiamKav]

At least Kuririn's young voice sounds vaguely like his adult voice...

Except that Steele's Kuririn sounded a little raspy. Then again, so does Strait's Kuririn.

Sorry, I did mean that Kuririn's young English voice sounded like his young adult voice.

It's odd. In many ways Terry Klassen was a lot closer to his original Japanese voice. Fairly high, not at all "manly" sounding. And Strait's is the voice least like the original Ocean Group dub. But it works much better. I'm wondering how much of that is due to script/acting improvements. "This is nuts!" and so on.

[sonikku956]

I find it strange that Laura Bailey voiced Trunks, when the same guy who voiced Future Trunks also voiced Kid Trunks in the original. But that's just me.

[Piccolo Daimao]

No, no. People complain that the entire cast is voiced by females, Horikawa and Furukawa are too high-pitched, and so on and so forth. You're reading too many logical and halfway-understandable viewpoints, it seems.

Oh, OK. And I don't know anyone could get that Horikawa's Vegeta is too high-pitched. Drummond's Vegeta is the most high-pitched Vegeta out of the English and Japanese versions. And I suppose that they've only really heard Gokuu, Gohan and Goten's voices?

At least Kuririn's young voice sounds vaguely like his adult voice...

Except that Steele's Kuririn sounded a little raspy. Then again, so does Strait's Kuririn.

Sorry, I did mean that Kuririn's young English voice sounded like his young adult voice.

It's odd. In many ways Terry Klassen was a lot closer to his original Japanese voice. Fairly high, not at all "manly" sounding. And Strait's is the voice least like the original Ocean Group dub. But it works much better. I'm wondering how much of that is due to script/acting improvements. "This is nuts!" and so on.

Yeah, I know, you're not wrong. Just that Steele's Kuririn was noticeably raspy, more than I'd like it to be.

And the reason Strait's Kuririn works better than Klassen's is because it wasn't annoying over-acted and gooberish, despite the pitch of his voice being closer to Tanaka's. I mean, he has moments where he's actually natural, but most of the time, he makes me want to punch him in the face.

I find it strange that Laura Bailey voiced Trunks, when the same guy who voiced Future Trunks also voiced Kid Trunks in the original. But that's just me.

Perhaps that's because Takeshi Kusao has the vocal/acting chops to do so, while Eric Vale may not? Vale didn't even do that good a future Trunks in the first place, so it'd be a catastrophe if he returned for kid Trunks.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Drummond's Vegeta is the most high-pitched Vegeta out of the English and Japanese versions.

But his voice is manly.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Drummond's Vegeta is the most high-pitched Vegeta out of the English and Japanese versions.

But his voice is manly.

As manly as a cartoonishly hysterical and short-fused (and short-bodied) generic villain archetype can be!

Not to mention he sounds nothing like a prince and, like most of the other Ocean Group performances, was over-acted. The only thing he did remotely good in was his rage outbursts, but even then, most of them were unintentionally hilarious.

[TripleRach]

On top of Kuririn's appearance and down-on-his-luck role in the series, I think the other issue is that the average English speaker doesn't seem to care about Kuririn either way. He was pretty popular in Japan, but how often do you hear dub fans cite him as their favorite character? Maybe it's a cultural thing, maybe it's because of the dumb lines FUNimation gave him, or maybe I'm just completely delusional. But that's my theory.

Personally, I don't care what an actor's gender is as long as they play their part well. I love Tanaka's Kuririn and Yajirobe, but I'm not a big fan of her Baba. I preferred Baba's first actor, who was male (Junpei Takiguchi). Nothing makes sense.

[Piccolo Daimao]

On top of Kuririn's appearance and down-on-his-luck role in the series, I think the other issue is that the average English speaker doesn't seem to care about Kuririn either way. He was pretty popular in Japan, but how often do you hear dub fans cite him as their favorite character? Maybe it's a cultural thing, maybe it's because of the dumb lines FUNimation gave him, or maybe I'm just completely delusional. But that's my theory.

Personally, I don't care what an actor's gender is as long as they play their part well. I love Tanaka's Kuririn and Yajirobe, but I'm not a big fan of her Baba. I preferred Baba's first actor, who was male (Junpei Takiguchi). Nothing makes sense.

Yeah, I think the reason that he's not as popular in the US as he is in Japan is because most Americans grew up watching Dragon Ball Z and pretty much know fuck all about Dragon Ball. So, to them, Kuririn is just "that bald shrimp who's a coward and can't even transform".

Basically, he's not in the line-up of the "hardcore" forerunners like Piccolo and the Super Saiyans. FUNimation gave everyone dumb lines, so it's probably not that.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I dunno, even back when I was a huge dub-only fan, I loved Kuririn (or Krillin, whatever). But then again, I've always gravitated to the goofy sidekick type characters more than the leads, so I'm definitely in the minority on that one.

I do wonder if they ever tried to get Strait to do a young Kuririn, or Vale to do a young Trunks, or if they just went straight for the "Small Boy Must Be Played A Girl!" rule.

I want to say they address this in one of the One Piece commentaries with Strait. Don't quote me on this, but I think he said something about he tried for it but they didn't like it or something at the time, so they ended up going for Steele instead of him. It came up because he DOES play the younger version of his character Usopp in One Piece.

On the brief note of Tanaka's Baba versus Takiguchi, oh man...I'm definitely alone in this one probably, but I just did not like Takiguchi's Baba at all. It wasn't flat out that it was a man playing a female role, there was just something about the voice itself I didn't like.

[penguintruth]

VegettoEX is right. People complain about "everyone" sounding like girls.

At which point I mention Vegeta, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Yamucha, Freeza, Cell, Future Trunks, Zarbon, Dodoria, Ginyu, Jeice, Baata, Recoome, Dabura, Kaioshin, Kibito, Shenlong, Roshi, Kami, Popo, Saichoro, Mori, Karin, Broly, Bojack, King Cold, Coola, Dr Wheelo, Garlic Junior, Tao Pai Pai, Budoukai Announcer, and others.

But nope. "EVERYONE sounds like girls."

"You mean Goku sounds like one?"

"EVERYONE."

It's a sickness.

[Fionordequester]

But then, do you think she was miscast as child Goku in DragonBall?

No I do not.

And if you did, would you recast her after over 100 episodes just because Goku grew up? Wouldn't that have sounded more weird?

Well...actually, you know what? I'm not sure I would now that I think about it, but only because, now that I think about it, some men DO have naturally high pitched voices, so I can't exactly discredit the voice for being unrealistic....

In fact, now that I think of it, maybe the only reason I was so adamantly against Nozawa as Goku in the first place...is because of how much I love Sean Schemell as Goku. I'll be perfectly honest, when I was a little kid, who FINALLY had access to Dragon Ball Z and was watching the Buu Arc...I didn't just love Goku, he was actually my idol at the time. All those "superhero" moments that some people on this forum complain about? I absolutely ate them up. It was one of the things I liked most about GT, seeing SSJ4 Goku saying stuff like "I'm the light behind the door, Bebi". He was strong, kind, dedicated, but also not afraid to be silly. Not flawless, but still an example to me. Basically, everything I wanted to be when I grew up (of course, his more selfish moments, such as choosing to not return home right away after beating Frieza flew over my head, but I was young back then).

Even now that we have Kai, I still get this impression from Sean Schemell's performance of Goku. I mean, sure, he's not saying superhero lines anymore, but I still think he brings a certain maturity to Goku that Nozawa doesn't (from what I've seen so far...I haven't seen all of Z in Japanese). When I listen to Nozawa, the high pitched voice makes him sound more like a child trapped in a man's body. Like, that silliness isn't just one aspect of his personality, but his defining characteristic, and I just hate that. With Sean Schemell, he still gets that silliness across, but...there's more to his performance to Goku than just that, you know what I mean?

And when I think about it, that might be why I'm so opposed to having a woman voice Goku. It just makes me think of that Gary Stu archetype I hate so much, where you have this guy who's always saying things like how it's his dream to be, essentially, one heck of a guy.

Now, like I said, I haven't actually watched a whole lot of Z with Nozawa's Goku, so, I could very easily be speaking out of ignorance. But...those are just my feelings. Would anyone like to respond?

[penguintruth]

When I listen to Nozawa, the high pitched voice makes him sound more like a child trapped in a man's body. Like, that silliness isn't just one aspect of his personality, but his defining characteristic, and I just hate that.

But that sorta IS Goku's definining characteristic. It's what keeps him from being just another boring superhero. He's a manchild.

That's what I like about him.

When I hear Schemmel's Goku, it's got all this gravity to it that is unnecessary. It's hard, not very malleable. Sure, he's improved over time, but it just doesn't have that other-wordly charm that Nozawa's does.

[The Time Traveller]

I always thought that Goku and Gohan felt like different characters as kids and adults in the English dub because of the different voices, there's sort of a major disassociation between them.

[Piccolo Daimao]

VegettoEX is right. People complain about "everyone" sounding like girls.

At which point I mention Vegeta, Piccolo, Tenshinhan, Yamucha, Freeza, Cell, Future Trunks, Zarbon, Dodoria, Ginyu, Jeice, Baata, Recoome, Dabura, Kaioshin, Kibito, Shenlong, Roshi, Kami, Popo, Saichoro, Mori, Karin, Broly, Bojack, King Cold, Coola, Dr Wheelo, Garlic Junior, Tao Pai Pai, Budoukai Announcer, and others.

But nope. "EVERYONE sounds like girls."

"You mean Goku sounds like one?"

"EVERYONE."

It's a sickness.

I think they're just generalizing. They've probably only heard Gokuu and a couple of the kids' voices, and then made up their mind that all the characters in the Japanese version sound like girls. Flawed logic, but these are (mostly) 12-year-old "hardcore DBZ" fanboys we're talking about here.

*sigh* You know what I want? I just want a really good English dub that's on par with the original, so it can end all this crap. And it shouldn't be that hard. FUNimation, despite being a questionable company, do have genuine talent and writers. Z Kai was a teasing sliver of the near-perfect treatment that the series could've gotten in the English-speaking world, yet it's still like trying to look at a great painting while someone's shining light in your eyes.

I mean, you're right. Despite my qualms with some of your harsh criticisms, you're right. We have never gotten a good enough English Gokuu. Kelamis was the closest, but he had this strange accent and an awkward performance. Like the majority of the Ocean Group performances. Even McNeil's Piccolo sounded like he was trying too hard to sound like a low-voiced demon, and since then, Sabat (who's still voicing three main characters)'s Piccolo in Kai has surpassed him. It's just tragic, really.

[VegettoEX]

I wouldn't call it "tragic". "Tragic" was English dub-exclusive fans not getting to experience and knowing who Freeza was until 2010.

"Double tragic" is any amount of said fans rejecting said character.

[penguintruth]

Piccolo Daimao, the problem is, these same people would REJECT an accurate dub for DBZ proper. These people are the ones who reject the DB Kai dub, because it doesn't have lines like "Ally to good, nightmare to you!" in them or the Faulconer music.

We just have to face it that a large group of people are simply not interested in an accurate DBZ dub. They want what they grew up watching on Toonami. Anything else is "for kids" (I've actually heard this said about Kai... as if DBZ itself wasn't for kids), or "gay". And no amount of reasoning is going to change that.

[Gaffer Tape]

I always thought that Goku and Gohan felt like different characters as kids and adults in the English dub because of the different voices, there's sort of a major disassociation between them.

But... Goku and Gohan have traditionally been voiced by the same actresses in English. Saffron Henderson voiced them both the first time around. Stephanie Nadolny voiced them both the second time around. And now Colleen Clinkenbeard voices them both the third time around. The only outlier is Ceyli Degadillo in between the first and second times around just for Goku, but that was only for two movies.

Or are you talking about their adult voices?

[Pokewhiz7]

I think he means the difference between Stephanie Nadolny and Sean Schemmel and the difference between Stephanie Nadolny and Kyle Hebert. Unless I'm misinterpreting both posts.