What if: Goku and Gohan used all the days training in HTC

[012yArthur0]

HTC = Hyperbolic Time Chamber

So, what do you think if Gohan and Goku used all days training instead of "slacking off"? Even if Keep the SSJ state was a part of training, Physical Training would also give results.

The only thing I saw the "slack training" option useful was to make Gohan bonds stronger, making him angrier if those bonds could be destroyed, like, if his friends was in danger (Like it happened in Cell games)


So the true question: Do you think Gohan or Goku, after spending all the days training in HTC, would be able to defeat Cell?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Both of them would become slightly stronger, which means Cell would just have to suppress less of his power. It'd turn out the same.

[Mystic Gohan]

Goku said the tough environments of the rosat would actually weaken them.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Oh, I thought he meant training outside, which they were planning to do (rest 3 days, train 3 days, then rest 3 days) before Gokuu brought Dende to Earth and told Gohan to stay with him up until the Cell Games.

Yeah, if they continued to train inside, it'd just do more harm than good and they wouldn't heal in time for the Cell Games.

[012yArthur0]

Oh, I thought he meant training outside, which they were planning to do (rest 3 days, train 3 days, then rest 3 days) before Gokuu brought Dende to Earth and told Gohan to stay with him up until the Cell Games.

Yeah, if they continued to train inside, it'd just do more harm than good and they wouldn't heal in time for the Cell Games.

Senzu beans?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Oh, I thought he meant training outside, which they were planning to do (rest 3 days, train 3 days, then rest 3 days) before Gokuu brought Dende to Earth and told Gohan to stay with him up until the Cell Games.

Yeah, if they continued to train inside, it'd just do more harm than good and they wouldn't heal in time for the Cell Games.

Senzu beans?

I think Gokuu probably would've factored that in when he made that statement, so perhaps not even Senzu would be able to heal the bodily harm an otherworldly place like the Room of Spirit and Time (potentially beyond the properties of Senzu) would inflict on them. Or maybe at a slower rate, so still not fast enough for the Cell Games. And it also depends on whether or not they even had enough Senzu.

[Mystic Gohan]

That makes me wonder. Did they bring in senzu beans into the rosat? Because i find it hard to believe they sustained no injuries in 1 year.

[Darkprince410]

There wasn't any indication whatsoever that they brought any in, especially when you consider that we see that all they went in with was just the armor they had on. That doesn't mean that it wasn't stocked with some anyway, which would arguably be a good food to have in there given that a single bean was said to keep a person full for 10 days, but we just don't know whether or not they did.

I feel though that in the long run it'd be more harmful than anything to them. Not only would they not be able to slouch much at all during that time frame, which is something Goku himself had said would be an issue, but you'd also have the psychological impact. Spending so many years with just one person in that environment, disconnected from everyone and everything else, would probably make, at least Gohan, rather indifferent to what's going on in the world outside. Sure after nearly a year they were still strongly driven about wanting to fight Cell, but I feel that if they were to spend several, uninterrupted years in there with no connection to the outside world that they'd at the very least lose that drive and focus entirely.

[Piccolo Daimao]

There wasn't any indication whatsoever that they brought any in, especially when you consider that we see that all they went in with was just the armor they had on. That doesn't mean that it wasn't stocked with some anyway, which would arguably be a good food to have in there given that a single bean was said to keep a person full for 10 days, but we just don't know whether or not they did.

Yeah, after Gokuu was defeated by Tambourine and he woke up in the forest the next day, eating Yajirobe's full roast pig or whatever was enough to boost him back up to full power. So whatever amount of food they had to last them for a year must've been enough to heal whatever injuries they may've sustained.

[InfernalVegito]

In the German dub Popo says one can only stay 48 hours in the ROSAT maximally. Is this false or in the original as well?

[Bussani]

I think we had this exact same thread recently.

Anyway, Goku turns down training in the room for even another year because it would be "torture, not training." He said they'd do better training and resting intermittently for the final days leading up to the fight. If even one more year would be bad for them, spending another eight or nine in there would probably be a big mistake.

In the German dub Popo says one can only stay 48 hours in the ROSAT maximally. Is this false or in the original as well?

Yes, that's also in the original.

[Gonstead]

I also doubt Chichi would be pleased seeing Gohan just age by 9 years out of nowhere.

[Insertclevername]

Well, they weren't really slacking off, as you put it. Resting can be just as, if not more effective than straight up physical training. I mean look at how Vegeta and Trunks entered a second time and lacked any real results. They didn't properly rest from the harsh environments of the ROSAT and by consequence progressed at much slower rate. So if Gokuu and Gohan were to stay in there for 9 years, I doubt they would have as much progress as you'd think since the environment would be taxing them for too long.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I mean look at how Vegeta and Trunks entered a second time and lacked any real results. They didn't properly rest from the harsh environments of the ROSAT and by consequence progressed at much slower rate.

To play devil's advocate, I don't think you can use them as an example. They probably improved a great deal, but we didn't get to see it because they never fought Cell again and we don't know how strong the Cell Juniors that they hold their own against were. And they did properly rest; I think it was, like, a day after their fight with Cell (Trunks got his haircut and they were just waiting for Gokuu and Gohan to come out), another day after Piccolo went in, then Vegeta and Trunks went in one day after the other.

[012yArthur0]

I mean look at how Vegeta and Trunks entered a second time and lacked any real results. They didn't properly rest from the harsh environments of the ROSAT and by consequence progressed at much slower rate.

To play devil's advocate, I don't think you can use them as an example. They probably improved a great deal, but we didn't get to see it because they never fought Cell again and we don't know how strong the Cell Juniors that they hold their own against were. And they did properly rest; I think it was, like, a day after their fight with Cell (Trunks got his haircut and they were just waiting for Gokuu and Gohan to come out), another day after Piccolo went in, then Vegeta and Trunks went in one day after the other.

But Vegeta and Trunks was getting pounded like cupcakes, while I believe that Goku only lost because he was weakened (If he used the Senzu Beans, he could get stronger by Zenkai, which he didn't.)

[Darkprince410]

They weren't getting beaten around though. Cell points out that they're the only two holding their own against the Cell Jrs, so in short they're fighting at least fairly evenly with them.

[Fox666]

Actually Cell said they are the only ones who are "barely fighting evenly", so the Cell Jr. may be stronger than them.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Either way, they weren't getting pounded into the dirt like Gokuu and the Earthlings. Vegeta even managed to land a punch on one of them, and he, Trunks and Piccolo were the only ones left standing at the end of the battle, with a couple of scratches.

[Deep Thought]

Got the Viz Manga on Vegeta and Trunks against the Cell Jr.s. Cell says, exactly (with each break indicating a separate speech bubble);

Cell (At Gohan's slight rage): Ho!

Cell: I felt your chi increase a little!

Cell: Good, you're finally feeling some rage.

Cell: You'd better be quick, or it'll be too late.

Cell: Look. Only Vegeta and Trunks are holding their own.

Cell: Goku's lost too much energy.

----

The concept of the Cell Jr.s being stronger than Vegeta and Trunks comes from the anime, when they did things like deflect Vegeta's Final Flash attack with ease. Making the villains dominate the heroes is something that is quite typical in the anime, and is considerably more prevalent than in the manga (for instance, in the anime Majin Vegeta is portrayed as stronger than Goku when they are equal in the manga). This is usually done to make the villains appear to be more of a threat. With that said, in the original fight, all we see is Vegeta punching a Cell Jr. across the face so hard that it staggers and recovers, leaving discernible damage on its cheek and causing blood to dribble down it's mouth. The Cell Jr., visibly angry, kicks Vegeta across the face, replicating the same effect to Vegeta (he staggers and has facial damage). Vegeta then says "This is ridiculous!! I can't be having this much trouble against these little shrimps!!"

Sorry that I don't have scans, you guys will just have to take my word on that, but I'm positive that other people with the Viz manga could verify me.

[Rostir]

I mean look at how Vegeta and Trunks entered a second time and lacked any real results. They didn't properly rest from the harsh environments of the ROSAT and by consequence progressed at much slower rate.

To play devil's advocate, I don't think you can use them as an example. They probably improved a great deal, but we didn't get to see it because they never fought Cell again and we don't know how strong the Cell Juniors that they hold their own against were. And they did properly rest; I think it was, like, a day after their fight with Cell (Trunks got his haircut and they were just waiting for Gokuu and Gohan to come out), another day after Piccolo went in, then Vegeta and Trunks went in one day after the other.

But Vegeta and Trunks was getting pounded like cupcakes, while I believe that Goku only lost because he was weakened (If he used the Senzu Beans, he could get stronger by Zenkai, which he didn't.)

They didn't master the SSJ transformation like Goku and Gohan did.