Which Trunks was killed by Cell?

[dbgtFO]

Lost post.

EDIT: I just thought of another possibility. What if Cell's timeline is actually the original one? That could potentially solve the discrepancy. (Goku gets heart virus, Z warriors are killed, Trunks uses remote on Androids, Cell kills Trunks and time travels)

Of course it's how things goes..

Then the timeline where Trunks finds the blueprints is the second timeline. Cell's time travel can't go to the blueprint timeline because he would create a paradox, so it takes him to manga timeline (a carbon copy of the blueprint timeline, where he alters it to what we see in the series. (Future Trunks' timeline, the one that is made out to be the original, would only exist because it is a requirement for the manga timeline to exist.)

We could say, to make things simple, that the original future was the one where Trunks returned with the blueprints and where Cell killed him...
That Trunks went to the originally altered past, the one without Cell and where he got the blueprints...

Cell travels created the *altered* original future and the *altered* originally altered past...
Those two *altered* are identical to their counterparts until the arrival of Trunks or Cell...

The *altered* original future is identical to the original future, until the return of Trunks from the past, that is not from the originally altered past but from the *altered* originally altered past, the past of the manga... The *altered* originally altered past occurs when Cell arrives since he never arrived in the first cycle of travels Trunks did...

There are no paradoxes because Dragon Ball time travels are realistic and logical... With timelines...

Well, as you can see from my lame diagrams, Cell doesn't go to the blueprint timeline because he went back further, to before that timeline even existed. Paradoxes aren't possible in Dragon Ball's model of time travel, anyway; if Trunks tried going back to when he first arrived and the blueprints timeline so he could kill himself, he'd just create another branch from that point--a new timeline where Trunks was killed by another Trunks.

Right... And that's how time travels would work if they were done...
The other ways make no sense...

[goldsaint13]

Thanks!!!

[InfernalVegito]

Time travel is always making my head explode.

I always thought it was a different Trunks that got killed by Cell.

Timeline 1: Future Trunks that went back into the past to inform the Z fighters about the future cyborgs.
He tells Goku about all of this and then leaves and travels back to HIS future where all the Z fighters are already dead.
In this timeline C17 & C18 have almost completely destroyed the Earth and Cell has probably already hatched and searches for them in his first Imperfect form of course. This Trunks kills EXACTLY this Cell that searches for the androids in Future Trunks' future.

Timeline 2: Here we have another Trunks from the future and not the one that managed to go back to the past to warn the Z fighters. This Trunks was killed by Cell and THIS VERY Cell used the time machine to go back to the past and THIS VERY Cell is the one the Z fighters fought against in the true timeline we are watching.

Timeline 3: The true timeline we are observing all the time that tells the story of the Z fighters.

I don't know if this truly correct but I don't see a problem in this explanation, yet. Always worked for me.

[Saroku]

I think the Trunks#1 who came to warn is the Trunks who is killed by cell later.
While Trunks#1 fights Frieza in the "Main timeline" (the timeline the series is about),
Trunks#2 fights Frieza in an alternate past where Cell does not appear.

After warning goku, Trunks#1 leaves the main timeline and travels 3 years forward to the alternate past in wich trunks#2 warned goku and the others and where no Cell appears. Trunks#2 meanwhile travels from this alternate past 3 years forward to the Main timeline, not knowing that this is a slightly different timeline than the one in wich he warned goku.

So that means, Trunks#1 and Trunks#2 changed eachothers timelines:
MainTimeline: Trunks#1 warning Goku -> traveling 3 years forward to the AlternateTimeline
AlternateTimeline: Trunks#2 warning Goku -> traveling 3 years forward to the MainTimeline

Trunks#1, who warned "our" Goku, is now in an alternate Past where no Cell appears, somehow beats the Cyborgs and returns to the future to kill them again there. Then Cell comes and kills him and travels to the Past of the main Timeline.

Trunks#2, who warned an alternate Past Goku, is now in "our" timeline and has to train to be able to fight Cell. After Gohan destroys Cell, the stronger Trunks goes back to his future and kills the weaker cell, who would have traveled to the past of the Alternate timeline.
So in short words, because Trunks#2 kills Cell, Trunks#1 does not meet Cell in the past, he stays weak and gets killed by Cell in the future because of that. And because he gets killed and cell travels to the Past, Trunks#2 has to deal with Cell in the past.

[dprez]

So why does it split at the point where they find the blueprints?

It doesn't. Or I've never seen it interpreted that way, at least.

The best way I've seen it explained is as follows: in the very first version of the timeline, the Androids wreck everything and a Trunks (not our Trunks that we meet) goes back in time, creating a new timeline in the process. This new timeline is a lot like the one we see in the manga, except there's no Cell. This means that everyone continues to focus their efforts on the Androids, leading to them discovering blueprints for the shutdown controls in the ruins of Gero's lab. They then use the controls to stop the Androids, and this Trunks returns to his future and uses it to stop his as well. This original timeline, however, is also the timeline our Cell comes from; when he wakes up and finds the Androids gone, he kills Trunks, steals his time machine, and travels back in time looking for them. Why the time machine takes him back to a year before Freeza arrives is anyone's guess, but Cell's presence is what causes the timeline we actually see in the manga. In other words, the Trunks we see kill Freeza and the Trunks who later returns are the same Trunks; it's the Trunks from Cell's timeline that dies.

This is the best interpretation of the timeline sections of the guides if you ask me, but it still leaves one or two questions that fans have to answer in their own way.

I think I finally understand this timeline business after reading this post...Never figured that the original timeline is where Cell is from and where Trunks dies. Cell's presence is indeed what changed everything in our timeline. Cell is why Trunks stayed to train instead of going back to his timeline. He was now strong enough to kill Cell once he returned, and more or less put and end to the endless creations of alternate timelines.

[Zephyr]

desirecampbell has an excellent video on Youtube on this subject that made the whole timeline fiasco crystal clear to me. Does anybody remember the one I'm talking about?

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

Trunks getting killed by Cell takes place nearly four-years on in Trunks' future timeline. I'm pretty sure it's that era's Trunks ready to time jump 23-24 years into the past, where Goku is given the medicine and lived by Trunks before the nearly four-year counterpart that killed Frieza and Cold.

Four-year timeline Trunks era = Killed by Cell and hijacked the time machine.
Pre-Four year timeline Trunks era = Killed Frieza, Cold & Gives Goku the medicine.
Child Trunks year timeline era = Goku survives the virus and Gohan defeats Cell.

[Saroku]

I like the idea more, that
Trunks(#1) who warned main-series goku is the one killed by cell. After he warned goku in the mainseries-timeline he went back to his future, then travels to that point of time where the androids should appear, but this time he comes to a different past with no cell. he beats androids, goes back to future and gets killed by cell. then cell travels to the main-timeline.

When the androids come to the main-timline, a Trunks(#2) from a different future comes to the main series timeline. This trunks who trains with vegeta in the hyperbolic chamber is NOT the trunks who warned them 3 years before. He warned the People from the timeline where no cell appears and where the trunks#1 kills the cyborgs.
So the Trunks#1 who gets killed and the Trunks#2 who trains with vegetas where both in the main-series timeline.

Mainseries-timeline:
Cell comes from the future
Trunks#1 warns goku
3 years later, Trunks#2 comes to fight the androids

Different-timeline:
NO Cell comes from the future
Trunks#2 warns goku
3 years later, Trunks#1 comes to fight the androids

I made an imaged timeline:
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9656/cellkz.png

[jjgp1112]

Bussani's theory is always the one I've always went with. When Cell went back in time, a copy of the original timeline was created in order for the one Cell went in to exist in the first place. Trunks' original trip to the past created a loophole, basically.

I'd also like to think Movie 7 occurred in the past that the Trunks from Cell's timeline went to

[Super Saiyajin Luffy]

If I invented a time machine today and went back in time to 2001 then that would be a new timeline. It wouldn't make sense for me to meet a guy in 2001 who says he kills me in the future and steals my time machine, unless he actually did kill me.

It would make sense if he killed you in your future, but Dragon Ball timeline doesn't work that way.

I just thought of another possibility. What if Cell's timeline is actually the original one?

That's what everyone's said, basically. It's hard to follow without visual aids. Oh, come to think of it, I already made some last time this discussion came up. Please forgive their poor quality and keep in mind that the labels I use may not match up with those in the guidebooks.

Timeline 1 is the original timeline--as you correctly guessed, the timeline that the Cell we know best comes from. The future here is basically identical to the one we see in the manga. Trunks goes back in time just like in the manga, which creates a new history: Timeline 2.

Timeline 2 plays out pretty much exactly as we see in the manga at first. Trunks defeats Freeza, warns them of the androids, returns to his time for a while and comes back to help three years later. This timeline, however, has no Cell hiding underground, and no second time machine for Bulma, Trunks and Gohan to be distracted by. Without Cell or any of that, everyone only has the androids to worry about. The timeline from the Daizenshuu implies that they find the blueprints for the shutdown controllers in this timeline, stop the androids, and then Trunks returns to his time (Timeline 1) and uses the remote to do the same there. Then, when Cell wakes up, he finds the androids mysteriously gone; he kills Trunks, hijacks his time machine and (for whatever reason) goes back further in time to create another new timeline, which is the one we see in the manga. It should look something like this...

But this raises the question of where our Trunks comes from. He's a different Trunks to the one Cell killed from a different yet basically identical future--but if this Timeline 3 has Cell in it, how could that future possibly happen? One theory I've heard is that Cell tried to absorb the androids prematurely, overconfidently, and was killed without any of the good guys even getting to see him. Another possibility is that time travel just works that way in Dragon Ball, and Trunks' future was "copied" along with everything else in order to still have Trunks appear and defeat Freeza. In either of those cases, the timelines might then look something like this:

With the green Timeline 4 being the manga timeline that we actually see for the most part, and the purple Timeline 3 being the future our Trunks comes from.

Cell's time travel can't go to the blueprint timeline because he would create a paradox

Well, as you can see from my lame diagrams, Cell doesn't go to the blueprint timeline because he went back further, to before that timeline even existed. Paradoxes aren't possible in Dragon Ball's model of time travel, anyway; if Trunks tried going back to when he first arrived in the blueprints timeline so he could kill himself, he'd just create another branch from that point--a new timeline where Trunks was killed by another Trunks.

I would say that our Future Trunks is coming from timeline 1, but only with his time machine having malfunctions, space-time-"stream" being chaotic or whatever to land in timeline 3. So just Multiverse-Travel-Machine and Time-Travel-Machine in one. And with this it creates a 5th timeline, which our happy Future Trunks resides.

Timeline 3 would be a world, where Goku just dies cause of the Virus and Cell becomes the Ultimate being. And then Cell has to deal with Boo xD.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Honestly Back to the Future and comicbooks really helped me make sense of the timeline deal. It's not that complicated. If you are a fan of DC comics think of the different timelines as different earths. Multiple timelines all experiencing the same events until a ripple occurs. If you want a main timeline then it's the one you follow from Dragonball's beginning all the way to the end of the Buu saga. We'll call it timeline A. For the story, there would only need to be 3 timelines total. The original timeline(A); Future Trunk's, the one we follow anyway(B); and finally the timeline in which Cell steals the time machine(C). We can count the past that the Trunks(C) visits too if you'd like but try to think of it as a C-2 and not it's own thing.

All of the events in A, B, and C all line up with each other up until Freeza's arrival in Timeline A. When our Trunks(B) intervenes he causes a ripple in the timeline. By introducing future medicine that saves Goku, he creates a time paradox causing 19 and 20 to appear as well as other effects we'll get to later. If you want to be philosophical about it, you can argue it's time's way of deciding you can't see into your own future.

That same Paradox also effected the otherwise parallel C-timeline; Trunks(C) going to visit Goku in C-2's past. The same events and warning occurred...only earlier then they did in A. Because of the paradox from Trunks(B) visiting our main timeline you could argue time itself got pushed back in C and C-2. There was also another side effect; while the Cell from C's timeline was traveling to C-2 after killing Trunks, he instead got shot into Timeline A thanks to Trunks(B)'s initial ripple. This would in tern mean that both Trunks(B) and Cell(C) arrived into timeline A at the same time; even though Cell's machine reads a year earlier.

When Trunks returns after 3 years, it's still the same Trunks(B) that killed Freeza; his life, timeline and machine are unaffected. The rest is pretty much explained. This again, is my own take of everything and personally I feel like it makes the most sense. I have no idea how Toriyama views it, but I doubt he really gave it too much thought. I hope this makes sense and maybe even helps.