New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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TheBlackPaladin
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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:30 pm

Eight-Star Dragon wrote:Didn't Sailor Moon start in 1992? Or am I just remembering wrong? I'm pretty happy that the show is being re-done, and this time hopefully more faithful to the manga (especially the last two arcs, they really deviate from the manga...) If a re-dub happens, I wouldn't mind seeing the voice actors from the DiC dub or Cloverway dub (although some VAs were around for both) I just want a complete re-dub, from the ground up, no dub-added elements from the dubs of the original.

@TheBlackPaladin I've heard that Toei is refusing to give the license to the show to anyone, and it's been this way for a while, but I have no idea how much truth there is to it.
Well, I don't know about them refusing to license it to anyone, because a couple years ago, Toei remastered the video and audio for "Sailor Moon" and began shopping the remastered version around to the different countries of the world. Italy was the first to pick it up, and Mexico and Brazil (and I think a few other places) picked the remastered version up as well. So people have been commenting that this is a golden opportunity for FUNimation to justify a redub...because redubs do need to be justified financially. It doesn't make business sense for a dubbing company to redub something unless there's a financial reason behind doing it. For example, FUNimation (kind of, sort of) redubbed the first two "seasons" of DBZ because...

a) They needed to create a full, uncut release of the series on home video, with all of the scenes previously edited out in the Ocean dub.
b) They needed to have a consistent voice cast across the entire series.

I'm sure the creative powers that be would have loved to have redubbed the rest of DBZ, but there really wasn't much financial incentive to do so, because the dub fans (the primary audience to whom FUNimation has marketed DBZ material) want to see the dub they grew up with. That's unfortunate, as I would have loved a redub, but the anime business is a business..."the acting in the old dub wasn't good" doesn't make any sense on a business level to justify a redub. Especially when that's not a universally-held consensus. If the dubbing companies get hurt financially, us fans get hurt too, because financial difficulties limit their ability to acquire and distribute other anime properties. Many fans have come to think of the Kai dub in the back of their minds as a "redub," when in fact, it isn't. We must all keep in mind that that's a dub of a new show that just happens to have a lot in common with another. Toei was releasing a new series, so it needed a new dub. That was the financial justification there. Similarly, with "One Piece," the only version that had been released was--at one point--an edited version, and so releasing an uncut version was the financial incentive to do a redub there.

Redubs just don't happen unless they make sense on a business level, never mind artistic or creative reasons. People have been actively praying that the new remastered version of "Sailor Moon" acts as the financial incentive that FUNimation needs to justify a redub. Having said all that, I don't know that Italy, Mexico, Brazil, or any of the other countries who acquired the remastered version of "Sailor Moon" also did redubs, or if they just spliced the old dub audio into the new, remastered footage. Someone else with more knowledge, feel free to speak up.

If FUNimation did get their hands on "Sailor Moon," they would almost certainly not use the same cast from the DiC or Cloverway dubs because those dubs were done in Toronto, whereas FUNimation is all the way down in Dallas. Sure, voice actors have commuted before, but the longer the project, the longer the time commitment...and by extension, the less likely they are to commute. For an entire Canadian cast to commute to the States for a 200-episode series is next to impossible. We'd almost definitely have an entirely new cast on our hands. However, on the production level, it would likely be a mountainous improvement over the previous dubs, because someone asked FUNimation how they'd handle certain aspects of the series if they got it, and the rep responded that they would produce an uncut dub, use the original Japanese names, keep the original music, and dub the songs.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by Puto » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:33 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:Redubs just don't happen unless they make sense on a business level, never mind artistic or creative reasons. People have been actively praying that the new remastered version of "Sailor Moon" acts as the financial incentive that FUNimation needs to justify a redub. Having said all that, I don't know that Italy, Mexico, Brazil, or any of the other countries who acquired the remastered version of "Sailor Moon" also did redubs, or if they just spliced the old dub audio into the new, remastered footage. Someone else with more knowledge, feel free to speak up.
Old dub on remastered footage (though the Mexican dub got the old VAs back to dub over the next episode previews which had never been done the first time around). Also, Portugal is still airing Sailor Moon (old dub, old VHS-quality footage).
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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by Super Sonic » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:46 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Eight-Star Dragon wrote: However, on the production level, it would likely be a mountainous improvement over the previous dubs, because someone asked FUNimation how they'd handle certain aspects of the series if they got it, and the rep responded that they would produce an uncut dub, use the original Japanese names, keep the original music, and dub the songs.
That's some of the other things guys want from a new dub t keep from the old. A lot of guys want the insert songs frm season 1 and R, many of which, even sub fans say was better than the songs placed in Japanese. And another, which I do agree on, is at least for the inner soldiers and Tuxedo Mask, is keep the English names, thoug changing Mamoru's last name back to Chiba would be ok. It's just too weird for me to hear her being called "Usagi" in English instead of Serena.

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by matt0044 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:56 pm

Super Sonic wrote:And another, which I do agree on, is at least for the inner soldiers and Tuxedo Mask, is keep the English names, thoug changing Mamoru's last name back to Chiba would be ok. It's just too weird for me to hear her being called "Usagi" in English instead of Serena.
No thank you. They live in Japan so why would they have American names? If anything, the latter would be weirder.

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:06 pm

matt0044 wrote:No thank you. They live in Japan so why would they have American names? If anything, the latter would be weirder.
If FUNimation completely renamed all Dragon Ball characters the dub-fans would probably prefer the names they grew up with hearing on the dub than the originals.

Hеrcule's a great example, there's more English fans using the dub-name than the original one.

Anywho, I agree with you, they should keep the original names but on Shin-chan, a series in Japan they renamed the characters to Western/American names as if the authentic names weren't good enough.

Maybe the pronunciation makes the trouble?

Norio Wakamoto speaking English

I don't see how Shinnosuke / Shin-chan, Hiroshi, Misae, Nene, Himawari, Shiro, Kazama, Masao, Bo-chan, Matsusaka, or etc could be of any problematic, imo, FUNimation just likes to americanize anime series. :|
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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by matt0044 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:11 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote: I don't see how Shinnosuke / Shin-chan, Hiroshi, Misae, Nene, Himawari, Shiro, Kazama, Masao, Bo-chan, Matsusaka, or etc could be of any problematic, imo, FUNimation just likes to americanize anime series. :|
Well, I get the jokes and the upped rating since Shin's "elephant" wouldn't fly on Kids TV. The names got me lost.

Plus, a lot of Anime dubs FUNi produces outside DB(Z) sticks to the story. Comedic ones are the most altered in dubs due to JPN humor and US humor being different. It has to sell somehow, right? Series that are more plot based or less comedic get faithful dubs.

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:21 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:Maybe the pronunciation makes the trouble?

Norio Wakamoto speaking English

I don't see how Shinnosuke / Shin-chan, Hiroshi, Misae, Nene, Himawari, Shiro, Kazama, Masao, Bo-chan, Matsusaka, or etc could be of any problematic, imo, FUNimation just likes to americanize anime series. :|
That would be because that's what the studio wanted FUNimation to do. Laura Bailey, the voice actress for Shin, said that they send everything they do back to Japan for approval.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by penguintruth » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:39 pm

I actually love the Sailor Moon dub songs, like "Rainy Day Man", "Oh Starry Night", "My Only Love" and others. They were the only real good thing about the dub of the show.

However, if Funimation does a re-release/re-dub, I think it's more appropriate to leave things like that out and keep the show as close to the Japanese version as possible.

As for the names, yeah, they need to call them Usagi, Mamoru, etc.

I wonder who'll compose music for the NEW SM show.
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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by Cold Skin » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:13 pm

I can't help feeling jealous when anime get remade and Dragon Ball is left aside, when it's simply recognized as one of the greatest mangas in history, one that participated in making mangas as successful as they are, and which is still announced as an event each and everytime it gets re-aired (like right now, in France, for the second time since the beginning of the year, not counting special choose-your-favorite-episodes week and special "Dragon Ball movies night"). They make us dream of a wonderful remake with Ultimate Tenkaichi's amazing graphics and music in the redone scenes, but why won't they just remake it ALL? Or make special "parallel stories" or whatever, but just give us something new from time to time!

As for Sailor Moon, I was always surprised of how the anime and manga had only basic plot points in common. As far as I remember, , apart from a very different storyline, the manga had a tone a little darker compared to the series (I faintly remember a woman, either Sailor Moon's previous incarnation or her mother back then, stabbing herself with a sword and blood splashing out, a dark future city made of crystal, or a buildings-exploding Apocalypse unleashed by Sailor Saturn). So, as some of you have mentionned, it would actually be more like the FIRST real adaptation of the manga. Hope they put a lot of efforts for the famous "transformation sequences"!

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by Eight-Star Dragon » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:49 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Eight-Star Dragon wrote:Didn't Sailor Moon start in 1992? Or am I just remembering wrong? I'm pretty happy that the show is being re-done, and this time hopefully more faithful to the manga (especially the last two arcs, they really deviate from the manga...) If a re-dub happens, I wouldn't mind seeing the voice actors from the DiC dub or Cloverway dub (although some VAs were around for both) I just want a complete re-dub, from the ground up, no dub-added elements from the dubs of the original.

@TheBlackPaladin I've heard that Toei is refusing to give the license to the show to anyone, and it's been this way for a while, but I have no idea how much truth there is to it.
Well, I don't know about them refusing to license it to anyone, because a couple years ago, Toei remastered the video and audio for "Sailor Moon" and began shopping the remastered version around to the different countries of the world. Italy was the first to pick it up, and Mexico and Brazil (and I think a few other places) picked the remastered version up as well. So people have been commenting that this is a golden opportunity for FUNimation to justify a redub...because redubs do need to be justified financially. It doesn't make business sense for a dubbing company to redub something unless there's a financial reason behind doing it. For example, FUNimation (kind of, sort of) redubbed the first two "seasons" of DBZ because...

a) They needed to create a full, uncut release of the series on home video, with all of the scenes previously edited out in the Ocean dub.
b) They needed to have a consistent voice cast across the entire series.

I'm sure the creative powers that be would have loved to have redubbed the rest of DBZ, but there really wasn't much financial incentive to do so, because the dub fans (the primary audience to whom FUNimation has marketed DBZ material) want to see the dub they grew up with. That's unfortunate, as I would have loved a redub, but the anime business is a business..."the acting in the old dub wasn't good" doesn't make any sense on a business level to justify a redub. Especially when that's not a universally-held consensus. If the dubbing companies get hurt financially, us fans get hurt too, because financial difficulties limit their ability to acquire and distribute other anime properties. Many fans have come to think of the Kai dub in the back of their minds as a "redub," when in fact, it isn't. We must all keep in mind that that's a dub of a new show that just happens to have a lot in common with another. Toei was releasing a new series, so it needed a new dub. That was the financial justification there. Similarly, with "One Piece," the only version that had been released was--at one point--an edited version, and so releasing an uncut version was the financial incentive to do a redub there.

Redubs just don't happen unless they make sense on a business level, never mind artistic or creative reasons. People have been actively praying that the new remastered version of "Sailor Moon" acts as the financial incentive that FUNimation needs to justify a redub. Having said all that, I don't know that Italy, Mexico, Brazil, or any of the other countries who acquired the remastered version of "Sailor Moon" also did redubs, or if they just spliced the old dub audio into the new, remastered footage. Someone else with more knowledge, feel free to speak up.

If FUNimation did get their hands on "Sailor Moon," they would almost certainly not use the same cast from the DiC or Cloverway dubs because those dubs were done in Toronto, whereas FUNimation is all the way down in Dallas. Sure, voice actors have commuted before, but the longer the project, the longer the time commitment...and by extension, the less likely they are to commute. For an entire Canadian cast to commute to the States for a 200-episode series is next to impossible. We'd almost definitely have an entirely new cast on our hands. However, on the production level, it would likely be a mountainous improvement over the previous dubs, because someone asked FUNimation how they'd handle certain aspects of the series if they got it, and the rep responded that they would produce an uncut dub, use the original Japanese names, keep the original music, and dub the songs.
My fault. I didn't really mean a re-dub of the original show, I just meant a franchise re-dub in general that can be done with the new show. I'm ok with what we have now, the Cloverway dub isn't the best, but I feel it's passable, and I just stick with the Japanese version for the first 2 seasons. I don't think Funimation should re-dub the original.

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by Ringworm128 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:31 pm

If Funi ever get's their hands on Sailor Moon I'm guessing it will be this new series.
penguintruth wrote: I wonder who'll compose music for the NEW SM show.
I'm suddenly picturing Kenji Yamamoto walking into Toei's HQ with a wig, fake moustache, trench coat and sunglasses saying "hello my name is..um...not Kenji Yamamoto. I heard you need a composer for that new Sailor Moon anime.

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by penguintruth » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:05 pm

I can picture that scenario. I bet he runs into Bruce Faulconer in yellow face on his way out.
Kentai wrote:Son Gokuu is a fascinating character anyway, because he is - at face value, anyway - an idiot savant. The victim of violent head trauma as an infant [...] he's a simple bumpkin with a fair share of brain damage who's natural talents to work out what's wrong compensate for his broad lack of common sense. But he's also a fighter, through and through [...] he fight until he has, in no uncertain terms, beaten his enemy on terms they can both acknowledge. He doesn't want to kill anyone, or even prove that he can win... he just wants to know he can. He's an ineffably charming bastard who's manly leanings were really incendental, and yes, the fact that he was voiced by a squeaky woman made the combination perhaps all the more charming.


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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by Super Sonic » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:10 pm

ringworm128 wrote:If Funi ever get's their hands on Sailor Moon I'm guessing it will be this new series.
Also have to ask so won't get as off-topic, if they do get their hands on it, does anyone here picture any DB cast alum in it? Myself, I can kinda see Vic Mignogna as Artemis and Eric Vale as Jedite. Including Kai guys, Colleen Clinkenbeard as Luna, and either Monica Rial, or Caitlin Glass as Rei. (Yeah, I know the latter wasn't in Kai, but she was my other thought). And was Todd Haberkorn in Kai? Other than that, others I could picture at the time were from other Funimation properties, but not DB. Heck, who I pictured as Serena was 13-14 years old at the time DBZ ended in the US.

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by jpdbzrulz4sure » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:12 pm

Super Sonic wrote:And was Todd Haberkorn in Kai?
Wasn't he the voice of #19 in Kai?
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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by Super Sonic » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:39 pm

Ok. Was also thinking him or Willingham as Tuxedo Mask, but couldn't remember if he was in Kai. (Wasn't including Willingham in the assessment as he was only in games, that I've never played).

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by matt0044 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:49 pm

ringworm128 wrote:I'm suddenly picturing Kenji Yamamoto walking into Toei's HQ with a wig, fake moustache, trench coat and sunglasses saying "hello my name is..um...not Kenji Yamamoto. I heard you need a composer for that new Sailor Moon anime.
:lol: What a senario that'd be.

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by DHM211 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:17 am

I'm glad DB Kai wasnt entierly new animation, new animation today usualy sucks in motion.

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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by AgitoZ » Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:39 am

DHM211 wrote:I'm glad DB Kai wasnt entierly new animation, new animation today usualy sucks in motion.
Buddy, I think you mixed up the words "new" and "bad".
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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by dbboxkaifan » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:20 am

DHM211 wrote:I'm glad DB Kai wasnt entierly new animation, new animation today usualy sucks in motion.
AgitoZ's probably right, but anyway, I would've preferred new animation than the annoying inconsistent animation they used in Kai, and an original intended soundtrack all the way through the end without getting removed.
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Re: New Sailor Moon anime and Kai

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:54 am

I dunno, animated series done by TOEI look like hell, Dragon Ball should've been made by Sunrise.
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