Saiga wrote:I don't know why you keep using the hairstyle. It doesn't match anything before it.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
They are not very different, and we don't have many shots from the tournament to compare them with the next appearances. Still, there is no proof in the manga that Gohan was Super Saiyan 2. The only thing you have is one statement by Daizenshuu 7, while the manga, Daizenshuu 2, and Sparking! METEOR state that Gohan was Super Saiyan. It's 3 vs 1, not to mention that the manga is above anything else.Saiga wrote:They're not the same. His world tournament SS1 is closer to the SS2 hairstyle than Gohan's Dabra SS1 hairstyle.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.
Yeah, it was just Gohan being stupid. But hey, people make mistakes in real life too.hleV wrote:Gohan was supposedly only SSJ against Dabra, but should have been SSJ2 for obvious reasons. Basically Toriyama made him SSJ, but it was a mistake, because of which people either try to justify Gohan's SSJ1 through various theories or try to neglect his SSJ1 appearance and say it's SSJ2. They kinda made a mistake in D7.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Doesn't seem that way. Past volumes of the book were usually content with just writing it as "Super Saiyan" without the need of specifying the form. They must have known what they were doing by adding the number in when it was already established there wasn't a need to.hleV wrote:They kinda made a mistake in D7.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.
It was a good post to get this thread back on topic. Anyway, it's Daizenshuu 7's fault as to why this is such a big controversy. Toriyama's sloppy Boo saga writing doesn't help either of course, but it's pretty clear to me what's going on there...Piccolo Daimao wrote:Ignore my post, why don'tcha. Moderator-approved, too.
(And Kaboom, I was only saying that they can create another thread if they want because, well, I wouldn't have to look in it anyway and they could confine the shitstorm to just that thread.)
Goku stomps. I seriously doubt Spopovich can tank bullets.Piccolo Daimao wrote: Son Gokuu (start-of-DB) vs. Spopovich
If Spopovich, even powered up by Bobbodi's magic, had his neck broken by Videl (who, I'd say, is overrated by many fans; just because she can fly doesn't mean she's broken superhuman levels of strength), I don't think he'd be able to defeat a guy who tanked bullets to the head with little damage. Spopovich's durability would probably allow him to hold out for an impressive amount of time, but Gokuu would eventually destroy him with little ease.
I actually have Janenba just under Super Boo. Ssj3 Gotenks is too strong, and is similar to Ssj Gogeta's power, imo.Piccolo Daimao wrote: Janenba (transformed) vs. Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
I actually have them equal, but Janenba has the advantage due to his dimension-warping abilities and Gotenks being an overconfident showboater.
Kuririn, with his unlock potential boost, should be able to surpass 120,000 during those three years. Yamucha trained in ten times earth's gravity under one of the greatest martial arts master in the Other World. Goku would get blitzed fast, but with his kaioken, the humans don't stand a chance.Piccolo Daimao wrote: Kuririn and Yamcha (Cell arc) vs. Son Gokuu (against Ginyuu)
If Yamcha's able to stall Gokuu for long enough, Kuririn could pull off a Kienzan that'd slice Gokuu if he didn't dodge. But with Gokuu's speed, it's a slim chance.
What proof do you have for Gohan to be Super Saiyan 2?Son_Gohan wrote:Doesn't seem that way. Past volumes of the book were usually content with just writing it as "Super Saiyan" without the need of specifying the form. They must have known what they were doing by adding the number in when it was already established there wasn't a need to.
It's likely that their views of what constitute the form just differ from your own, why not just leave it at that?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
This ain't the place for this. I agree there ain't much, but come on, this debate is silly.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:What proof do you have for Gohan to be Super Saiyan 2?Son_Gohan wrote:Doesn't seem that way. Past volumes of the book were usually content with just writing it as "Super Saiyan" without the need of specifying the form. They must have known what they were doing by adding the number in when it was already established there wasn't a need to.
It's likely that their views of what constitute the form just differ from your own, why not just leave it at that?
dprez wrote:This ain't the place for this. I agree there ain't much, but come on, this debate is silly.
Like VegettoEX said recently:Piccolo Daimao wrote:Moderator-approved
That's what I'm looking for in this discussion. I know it's a silly one, I just want to see what others think about this, why are they thinking this. Of course, we could make a new thread (or rather, a new copy, since it's been discussed a million times).VegettoEX wrote:Even if it's an older conversation that we've tossed around a million times, every so often someone points out something new and I sit there going, "holy crap!" That's enough to justify it. I've re-considered viewpoints.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
If you want to debate about this we can do it privately.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:What proof do you have for Gohan to be Super Saiyan 2?Son_Gohan wrote:Doesn't seem that way. Past volumes of the book were usually content with just writing it as "Super Saiyan" without the need of specifying the form. They must have known what they were doing by adding the number in when it was already established there wasn't a need to.
It's likely that their views of what constitute the form just differ from your own, why not just leave it at that?
No, it's not 3 v 1.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:They are not very different, and we don't have many shots from the tournament to compare them with the next appearances. Still, there is no proof in the manga that Gohan was Super Saiyan 2. The only thing you have is one statement by Daizenshuu 7, while the manga, Daizenshuu 2, and Sparking! METEOR state that Gohan was Super Saiyan. It's 3 vs 1, not to mention that the manga is above anything else.Saiga wrote:They're not the same. His world tournament SS1 is closer to the SS2 hairstyle than Gohan's Dabra SS1 hairstyle.
Imply, yes. State, no.Fox666 wrote:No matter what you say, the Daizenshuu also imply something else. And you can't go by only the other being possibly a mistake. In fact, Daizenshuu 2 is specifically speaking of Super Saiyan forms, while Daizenshuu 7 is only providing a generic description for character bios.
