The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Kaboom]

Prep time means nothing. The DB universe has no Batman. Though it does have Piccolo.

[In Brightest Day]

When you're significantly less powerful than the guy you're fighting, no matter how skilled or how much time to prepare you have you're still going to get stomped. Hard.

Vegetto/Gogeta is/are probably the greatest fighter(s) to ever appear in the series anyway.

[dbzfan7]

^^

Give a proof.

me or hlev?

[Rocketman]

Vegetto can defeat Batman no matter how much prep time he gets.

[Fox666]

Batman makes Vegetto eat poisonous food.

[In Brightest Day]

Nothing to suggest that Paikuuhan's Burning Shoot is a technique like the Kaiouken. The scene was meant to show that Paikuhan was this super-strong guy who could take out Cell in one hit.

Goku crapping his pants when Cell charged at him is a pretty big indicator.

But considering Goku literally did zero training during the lead up to the final round, regardless of Toei's inconsistencies in GT and some of the movies, I just can't possibly fathom why you would choose to sway towards him just magically becoming stronger than Super Perfect Cell.

And during his fight with Paikuuhan at the tournament, he was on the defensive the whole time. The only reason he "won" was because he teleported out of the way of Paikuuhan's Thunder Flash and nailed him with a Kamehameha.

That doesn't really mean anything. All that suggests is that Pikkon is probably somewhat stronger than Goku.

Not to mention the fact that Toei just don't seem to know or care about the strength difference between base and Super Saiyan, so their power-scaling is whacked. This wasn't unique to GT; it being a completely original series not based on Toriyama's manga, Toei had free reign to do whatever the fuck they wanted. It's basically their crappy filler made into a series.

True, but the stuff we're talking about in the Other World Tournament arc is easily explained.


I have a new fight:

Dabura vs. Cell-Games Vegeta and Trunks and Buu arc Piccolo.

[Kaboom]

Dabura vs. Cell-Games Vegeta and Trunks and Buu arc Piccolo.

All three heroes would be about equal in power, and able to put up a really darn good fight working together. But Dabra would still be significantly stronger than them (assuming he's around as powerful as Cell versus Goku) and have magic tricks to toss at them. So Dabra's gonna win 9 out of 10 times.

[Mjb1985]

I wouldn't go as far as to say all three are equal, the chapter cover shows Piccolo significantly damaged while Trunks and Vegeta only have some scuffs on them. I wouldn't say that Piccolo is really all that far off but I wouldn't put him at equal for sure. But that's besides the point.

I highly doubt that Ssj Goku from the Cell Games would be talked about in such a manner in which Ssj Teen Gohan was treated. I have Gohan inferior by a decent margin.

Dabura is a tricky guy for sure but with Vegeta and Piccolo not too far off I definitely give them a chance. Trunks is definitely getting turned into stone though. Vegeta will Final Flash that butt for sure.

[Saiga]

Kurilin vs Tenshinhan

Any time after Guru's power up Kurilin smacks Tenshinhan around like a rag doll.

Vegetto vs Gokan

I think Vegetto was sort of a fluke in how good he turned out to be, so a Gohan/Goku fusion may not turn out so well despite Gohan being extremely strong in his own right. I wouldn't even know if Gokan would be capable of using the Super Saiyan forms. It's a toss up.

Vegetto vs Arale

Arale easily beats Vegetto, naturally.

Vegeta, Trunks & Piccolo vs Dabra

This is an easy match for Dabra.

[CaptainKatsura]

^If Gokan retains Gohan's "Mystic Saiyan" status, I don't see why it would be a handicap. He would have access to the power that SSJ transformations provide without actually transforming.

[Saiga]

^If Gokan retains Gohan's "Mystic Saiyan" status, I don't see why it would be a handicap. He would have access to the power that SSJ transformations provide without actually transforming.

I wasn't thinking of it as a handicap, just that I can't really rank him without knowing how the fusion would deal with that.

[CaptainKatsura]

Either way, whether he has access to Mystic Saiyan or regular SSJ forms (up to 2 most likely), it's still enough to deal with Super Buu (Gotenks absorbed).

[Piccolo Daimao]

Future Trunks (Super Saiyan Grade II, Boo arc) vs. SS Gohan (Boo arc)

I don't know how much Trunks would improve, so I'm stumped here.

Yakon vs. base Gokuu and Gohan

When Kaioushin suggested them ganging up on Yakon, Gohan said that Gokuu would be fine on his own. But when Yakon ate Gokuu's SS light and SS was, for all intents and purposes, out of the picture, Gohan offered to fight with him, saying that they could win without becoming SSs. So I interpret this as meaning that Yakon's somewhat stronger than Gokuu, but not enough that base Gokuu and Gohan couldn't win if they fought together.

Gogetto (Gogeta and Vegetto fusion via Potara) vs. the entire universe (including the Otherworld, the Demon Realm, movies etc.) all at once

Conditions:
Gogeta's fusion lasts forever like Vegetto's.
Everyone can breathe in space for this battle.

Gogetto creates a massive explosive wave that destroys them all and tears a stonking great hole through the dimensions in the process.

Nothing to suggest that Paikuuhan's Burning Shoot is a technique like the Kaiouken. The scene was meant to show that Paikuhan was this super-strong guy who could take out Cell in one hit.

Goku crapping his pants when Cell charged at him is a pretty big indicator.

What do you mean "Gokuu crapping his pants when Cell charged at him is a pretty big indicator"? That's because Gokuu knew he couldn't defeat him, which is why Paikuuhan had to intervene.

But considering Goku literally did zero training during the lead up to the final round, regardless of Toei's inconsistencies in GT and some of the movies, I just can't possibly fathom why you would choose to sway towards him just magically becoming stronger than Super Perfect Cell.

I don't know, maybe it's because that entire scene is pointless if Paikuuhan just happened to defeat Cell off-guard with a "Kaiouken-esque move" (a theory that has literally no basis).

By the way, I'm just talking about Paikuuhan being stronger than super-perfect Cell. I think Gokuu stayed pretty much at the same strength. He may've increased somewhat, though, since I think I remember seeing a design sheet from Toei that said something like "Gokuu becomes stronger after every battle". Whether or not that's referring to Zenkais (a plot device that'd been laid to rest by now, and none of his fights leading up to Paikuuhan weren't near-death anyway) or just some bullshit they pulled to explain how Gokuu didn't get wrecked instantly by Paikuuhan is up to you.

And during his fight with Paikuuhan at the tournament, he was on the defensive the whole time. The only reason he "won" was because he teleported out of the way of Paikuuhan's Thunder Flash and nailed him with a Kamehameha.

That doesn't really mean anything. All that suggests is that Paikuhan is probably somewhat stronger than Goku.

There, you said. It suggests that Paikuuhan's stronger than Gokuu. How much stronger is subjective, but it still means he's stronger. Gokuu was losing the whole time until he did that trick, so nothing's contradicted here.

Not to mention the fact that Toei just don't seem to know or care about the strength difference between base and Super Saiyan, so their power-scaling is whacked. This wasn't unique to GT; it being a completely original series not based on Toriyama's manga, Toei had free reign to do whatever the fuck they wanted. It's basically their crappy filler made into a series.

True, but the stuff we're talking about in the Other World Tournament arc is easily explained.

Why should I care? Toei still don't know what they're doing. And I disagree with your explanation.

I have a new fight:

Dabura vs. Cell-Games Vegeta and Trunks and Buu arc Piccolo.

Dabra wrecks them all with ease.

[InfernalVegito]

Gogetto (Gogeta and Vegetto fusion via Potara) vs. the entire universe (including the Otherworld, the Demon Realm, movies etc.) all at once

Conditions:
Gogeta's fusion lasts forever like Vegetto's.
Everyone can breathe in space for this battle.

Gogetto is basically omnipotence lol.

[SSJ3_Gogeta]

Krillin vs Tien

If Tien uses his Neo Tri Beam, Krillin is as good as dead. Otherwise, it'd be close.

Vegito vs Arale

Vegito would logically win this easily, but it isn't exactly fair to compare him to a gag character.

Gogetto vs DBverse

At SSJ3 and maybe even SSJ2, he basically annihilates everyone including SSJ4 GT Gogeta.


Matchups:
Base Vegito vs SSJ GT Goku
SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) vs Base Gotenks (Post Rosat)
Base Gogeta (Movie 12) vs Base Super Buu

[Piccolo Daimao]

Fusion match-ups!

Base Gotenks vs. SS Goten and Trunks

The reason I ask this is because I've seen base Gotenks being ranked lower than SS Goten and Trunks, despite the fact that Gotenks is meant to be "stronger than the sum of their parts" and "several times stronger than them". IMO, that'd include their Super Saiyan selves, so Gotenks defeats them effortlessly here.

Base Gogeta vs. SS2 Vegeta

I think that Gogeta, who'd be marginally stronger, narrowly edges a win due to the advantage of having Gokuu inside him as well as Vegeta.

Kibitoshin vs. SS Gokuu, Gohan and Vegeta

Since I believe that Kibitoshin is, at most, equal to SS2 Gohan, he could probably dominate all three of the adult Super Saiyans, but probably tire himself out a bit by the end. The only chance the Saiyans would have is if Gohan and/or Vegeta stalled Kibitoshin while Gokuu charged up for a Shunkan-Idou Kamehameha.

Base Vegito vs SSJ GT Goku

Via Z logic, Vegetto should wreck Gokuu's shit. Via GT logic, it's vice versa.

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) vs Base Gotenks (Post Rosat)

Gohan destroys Gotenks without breaking a sweat.

Base Gogeta (Movie 12) vs Base Super Buu

Boo thrashes Gogeta like a ragdoll.

[dprez]

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) vs Base Gotenks (Post Rosat)

I've always considered post-RoSaT base Gotenks to be a top tier Ssj2 level fighter. This is a good match imo, but I think Gohan wins due to his epic cell games Ssj2 persona, and of course Gotenks being a dumbass.

[dbzfan7]

Fusion match-ups!

Base Gotenks vs. SS Goten and Trunks

The reason I ask this is because I've seen base Gotenks being ranked lower than SS Goten and Trunks, despite the fact that Gotenks is meant to be "stronger than the sum of their parts" and "several times stronger than them". IMO, that'd include their Super Saiyan selves, so Gotenks defeats them effortlessly here.

Base Gogeta vs. SS2 Vegeta

I think that Gogeta, who'd be marginally stronger, narrowly edges a win due to the advantage of having Gokuu inside him as well as Vegeta.

Kibitoshin vs. SS Gokuu, Gohan and Vegeta

Since I believe that Kibitoshin is, at most, equal to SS2 Gohan, he could probably dominate all three of the adult Super Saiyans, but probably tire himself out a bit by the end. The only chance the Saiyans would have is if Gohan and/or Vegeta stalled Kibitoshin while Gokuu charged up for a Shunkan-Idou Kamehameha.

Base Vegito vs SSJ GT Goku

Via Z logic, Vegetto should wreck Gokuu's shit. Via GT logic, it's vice versa.

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) vs Base Gotenks (Post Rosat)

Gohan destroys Gotenks without breaking a sweat.

Base Gogeta (Movie 12) vs Base Super Buu

Boo thrashes Gogeta like a ragdoll.

Base Gotenks vs. SS Goten and Trunks

Gotenks wins easily with little to no effort

Base Gogeta vs. SS2 Vegeta

Base Gogeta with ease

Kibitoshin vs. SS Gokuu, Gohan and Vegeta

I can't say since Kibitoshin hasn't done any fighting feats that can help me decide

Base Vegito vs SSJ GT Goku

What Piccolo said

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) vs Base Gotenks (Post Rosat)

Tough call. If it were SSJ Gotenks he would crush Gohan. Base Gotenks Might be a little weaker without SSJ.

Base Gogeta (Movie 12) vs Base Super Buu

Base Gogeta. Fusion with Goku and Vegeta is that good.

[Insertclevername]

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) vs Base Gotenks (Post Rosat)

Question, is Gohan enraged or not? It kinda makes a difference in both fighting persona and strength.

[Saiga]

Base Vegito vs SSJ GT Goku

Goku destroys Vegetto so hard it isn't funny.

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) vs Base Gotenks (Post Rosat)

Gohan takes this regardless of his mentality.

Base Gogeta (Movie 12) vs Base Super Buu

Another base Saiyan fusion getting stomped. This is probably the most uneven match-up here.

Base Gotenks vs. SS Goten and Trunks

Stronger than the sum of the parts doesn't mean more than 50x stronger. That'd really push Gotenks' power into ridiculous territory.

I think Gotenks would lose to either one-on-one.

Base Gogeta vs. SS2 Vegeta

Vegeta takes this with ease.

Kibitoshin vs. SS Gokuu, Gohan and Vegeta

I think Kibitoshin definitely has the strength to handle all three, but it won't be so easy. He's outnumbered and the Saiyans all have techniques that could potentially be devastating to Kibitoshin if he's caught off guard. Of course, they might have trouble hitting him if he just spams Kai Kai...

Here's another match up:

Piccolo (Android Saga pre-merger) vs Nameless Namekian (Pre-split)

We know that Piccolo got quite powerful after his training in preparation for the Androids, but did he surpass the Nameless Namekian?