Tree of Might - the Saban dub

[andrewtuell1991]

Fun fact: The 3rd Dragon Ball Z Movie (Super Battle for the World aka Tree of Might) has the most English dubs out of any other piece of DBZ media. 5 to be exact: Speedy, Saban, Pioneer, Funimation In-house, and AB Groupe. Of these dubs, the one that might stick out the most is the Saban just because of the odd way they aired.

For those of you who aren't familiar with the Saban dub of Tree of Might, let me briefly explain. Rather than showing it all as one movie, Saban butchered it up into three episodes and aired in between English Episodes 45 (Immortality Denied) and 46 (Big Trouble for Bulma). This just leaves so many question in my mind.

# 1. Why? What made Saban decide to split a DBZ movie into three parts and try to pass them off as actual episodes? It's now pretty much common knowledge that none of the theatrically release movies of DB can't co-exist with the main timeline because of all the continuity problems they would cause. Sure the Saban dub was aimed at a young audience; but kids were probably scratching their heads wondering why one minute Vegeta's rushing off to find Gohan and co. in his infamous "My Wrath" scene and the next everyone's back on Earth fighting an evil Goku clone.

#2. Was this to be the way all the movies would of been shown had the Funimation/Saban/Pioneer/Ocean Group partnership not broken up?

#3. Why Tree of Might? I've noticed that this movie seemed to a main focus back in the Saban/Funi years. Not only was this the only movie in that particular dub, it also makes up about 50% of the scenes in "Rock the Dragon". If you're going to put the spotlight on any of the early DBZ movies, shouldn't it be the first one seeing as how the main villain (Garlic Jr.) reappears.

#4. When was this three-parter dub? It has Ian Corlett voicing Goku and Roshi instead of Kelamis so it had to have been dubbed before English Episode 37 (when Kelamis replaced Corlett) but it was aired during Ep. 45 and 46 so it had to of been dubbed before the switch, so why not air it earlier?

I seriously wish someday we could find whoever it was who made most of the... interesting decisions made for the dub at the time and interview them, just to clear some things up.

[OutlawTorn]

#4. When was this three-parter dub? It has Ian Corlett voicing Goku and Roshi instead of Kelamis so it had to have been dubbed before English Episode 37 (when Kelamis replaced Corlett) but it was aired during Ep. 45 and 46 so it had to of been dubbed before the switch, so why not air it earlier?

I believe this was the last project related to Dragon Ball which Ian Corlett participated in, placing its production after his last television episode. It was also the last appearance of the original Oolong (Alec Willows). Other than that, I have no idea. I never saw this version as three episodes placed during the series proper, YTV never showed it that way. In fact, I can only remember YTV airing it once and I think it was as a single movie but don't quote me on that. I don't know if I even have the VHS tape (yes, VHS) recording anymore.

I'm also unsure whether I saw this or the Pioneer version first, as I had mistakenly received a subbed version when I ordered it from FUNimation way back before they could even be found in stores.

[atm5508]

Fun fact: The 3rd Dragon Ball Z Movie (Super Battle for the World aka Tree of Might) has the most English dubs out of any other piece of DBZ media. 5 to be exact: Speedy, Saban, Pioneer, Funimation In-house, and AB Groupe. Of these dubs, the one that might stick out the most is the Saban just because of the odd way they aired.

For those of you who aren't familiar with the Saban dub of Tree of Might, let me briefly explain. Rather than showing it all as one movie, Saban butchered it up into three episodes and aired in between English Episodes 45 (Immortality Denied) and 46 (Big Trouble for Bulma). This just leaves so many question in my mind.

# 1. Why? What made Saban decide to split a DBZ movie into three parts and try to pass them off as actual episodes? It's now pretty much common knowledge that none of the theatrically release movies of DB can't co-exist with the main timeline because of all the continuity problems they would cause. Sure the Saban dub was aimed at a young audience; but kids were probably scratching their heads wondering why one minute Vegeta's rushing off to find Gohan and co. in his infamous "My Wrath" scene and the next everyone's back on Earth fighting an evil Goku clone.

#2. Was this to be the way all the movies would of been shown had the Funimation/Saban/Pioneer/Ocean Group partnership not broken up?

#3. Why Tree of Might? I've noticed that this movie seemed to a main focus back in the Saban/Funi years. Not only was this the only movie in that particular dub, it also makes up about 50% of the scenes in "Rock the Dragon". If you're going to put the spotlight on any of the early DBZ movies, shouldn't it be the first one seeing as how the main villain (Garlic Jr.) reappears.

#4. When was this three-parter dub? It has Ian Corlett voicing Goku and Roshi instead of Kelamis so it had to have been dubbed before English Episode 37 (when Kelamis replaced Corlett) but it was aired during Ep. 45 and 46 so it had to of been dubbed before the switch, so why not air it earlier?

I seriously wish someday we could find whoever it was who made most of the... interesting decisions made for the dub at the time and interview them, just to clear some things up.

Well, I don't have any concrete answers for you, but I do like to speculate on matters like this!

#1. For whatever reason, Tree of Might was apparently included in Funimation's original TV deal for the series. This is stated in a previous thread here on Kanzenshuu that may be of interest to you: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=18416

It is likely that they would not have used it had they not edited the episode count down, and that this may have been used to fill some sort of requirement for syndication. I'll delve more deeply into why they may have utilized Tree of Might so heavily in question #3.

#2. I doubt that this was Funimation/Saban/Pioneer/Ocean Group's plan for all of the DBZ movies, but I cannot be 100% sure of that. The only thing that makes me somewhat hesitant to say this is this discussion found, once again, on Kanzenshuu: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... f=8&t=1248

In this topic, Tanooki and VegettoEX (among others) discuss a supposedly canceled release of the TV Version of Tree of Might. Although Pioneer was not involved with production, this does seem to indicate that Funimation had plans to release this version to the public. Perhaps this was to be the beginning of their dual edited and uncut VHS releases. If this is true, then, they may have been considering doing this to more than just Tree of Might.

#3. Of the episodes produced during the Funimation/Saban partnership, no episodes had Goku as a Super Saiyan. Thus, DBZ movies 4-13 (I'm including 4 because of Goku's Pseudo-Super Saiyan form) would have made absolutely no sense to audiences who had only seen the dub of seasons 1 & 2. That leaves us with movies 1-3.

Movie 1 shows the rivalry between Goku and Piccolo that was developed in Dragon Ball. Not only did they specifically try to cut down on references to the older series (see the scene where Launch was edited out of a picture), but this would seem redundant to an audience who had already seen Goku and Piccolo work together, as well as Piccolo save Gohan's life. This might have worked if it had been aired before any other episodes, but other than that, this would be a tough fit.

Movie 2 may have simply been avoided due to the nature of this release (although some of the footage is used in the "Rock the Dragon" intro). I could be wrong, but World's Strongest had several things that I feel may have caused Saban to shy away from using it: the giant evil brain, the creepy sidekick, Piccolo turning evil, Roshi being beaten up, etc. These might not seem like serious issues, but the content of this movie might not have gone over well in a world with constant references to "the next dimension".

Most importantly, neither villain from these movies had anything to do with the series up to that point. Garlic Jr. would show up later, but other than that, these villains didn't connect well to the story arcs that were airing.

I understand that people will make the same argument about Tullece, but keep in mind one thing: he was both a Saiyan and had connections to Frieza. Tullece simply fit into these episodes a little bit better, not continuity-wise, just character-wise. Also, keep in mind that this is a kid's TV show and that was the market they were aiming for. Tullece may have seemed like a close enough fit to be Goku's version of Bizarro or Negaduck (or any other show which has used this concept), which they may have seen as way to attract viewers.

#4. I'm not entirely sure when it was dubbed and/or aired, so hopefully someone who does know will jump in and contribute that information. As to why they aired it later, I have no idea. It seems that if you were going to place it somewhere into the series continuity, the period before the group left for Namek would have been best.

Hopefully that gives you a little bit of insight into your questions!

[G1Ravage]

I find it interesting that Alec Willows couldn't come back for the later Pioneer uncut dub, so Scott McNeil voiced Oolong for the only time, as well as one of the twins.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Man...I think English-speaking fandom probably had the most convoluted history of dubs when it comes to the "Dragon Ball" animes. The Harmony Gold dub, the Speedy dub, the AB Groupe dub, the Saban dub, the Pioneer dub, the FUNimation dub, the out-of-order airing...kinda makes you jealous sometimes of those countries that just had one, consistent dub.

[atm5508]

Man...I think English-speaking fandom probably had the most convoluted history of dubs when it comes to the "Dragon Ball" animes. The Harmony Gold dub, the Speedy dub, the AB Groupe dub, the Saban dub, the Pioneer dub, the FUNimation dub, the out-of-order airing...kinda makes you jealous sometimes of those countries that just had one, consistent dub.

I actually think it adds a bit of mystique to the entire situation. It's pretty neat to think of how many DragonBall-related things I have yet to see after all these years (Movie overview special and Harmony Gold Episodes, I'm looking at you). It would have been nice to have one consistent release of the series, but hunting it down in all of its various forms can be its own kind of fun.

[andrewtuell1991]

I find it interesting that Alec Willows couldn't come back for the later Pioneer uncut dub, so Scott McNeil voiced Oolong for the only time, as well as one of the twins.

Wasn't it Doug Parker who voiced him in the uncut Pioneer version? Because I know he voiced Oolong in the Westwood dub.

[RazorX]

It was Scott McNeil who voiced Oolong in the Pioneer uncut dub of Movie 3. I can recognise it's Scott and the voice is different to the voice used for Oolong in the Westwood/Ocean dub.

I think Movie 3 is the only time Scott voiced Oolong.

As to the topic at hand, I'm grateful that we have 2 Ocean dubs of the same movie to enjoy. It's great to hear the similarities and difference between the Ocean dub and the Ocean redub.

Btw, anyone who watched the original broadcast of Movie 3 as 3 part episodes, do you remember if they produced recaps and next episode previews for the three part movie? It seems logical that they would, as they created the recaps/NEPs from scratch for the DBZ episodes.

[VegettoEX]

If I can dig up the appropriate tape I'll check, but I don't remember there being recaps or previews during any of the three parts. The first part aired after a normal episode one week, and the other two episodes aired the following week back-to-back, so it wasn't HUGELY necessary (remember that season two of the dub had a full hour block of two episodes).

[Super Sonic]

It's been awhile since I've seen the tv version (taped off Toonami when it premiered as a movie) but I recall, unlike the normal eps, they didn't have Turles in "another dimension" and King Kai clearly said he was destroyed. Wonder wy they did that there.

[kei17]

It's been awhile since I've seen the tv version (taped off Toonami when it premiered as a movie) but I recall, unlike the normal eps, they didn't have Tullece in "another dimension" and King Kai clearly said he was destroyed. Wonder wy they did that there.

Here's that scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz51hcjWY-0

[Tanooki Kuribo]

In this topic, Tanooki and VegettoEX (among others) discuss a supposedly canceled release of the TV Version of Tree of Might. Although Pioneer was not involved with production, this does seem to indicate that Funimation had plans to release this version to the public....

Just to clarify, I asked if anyone remembered seeing this and I don't think anyone did. I saw this in one of those Suncoast flyers. The VHS cover of this Tree of Might wasn't the version I had. It had Gohan and his Dragon on the cover. I'm pretty sure it said "as seen on TV" but... I don't know. It was such a long time ago. This was a memory of something I didn't think I would have to recall years later so, ya know.

I know that doesn't help. But hey, while I'm here I might as well throw this out there. I have the Tree of Might Cartoon Network commercial in my "Commercials and Stuff" set on my Flickr, if anyone is interested. It's the icon with the Saiyan Space Pod...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/65846913@N ... 408930969/

[Ness]

I actually loved The Ocean Group voices. I've seen a lot of the same actors and actresses in other anime and I think they did a much better job than the second unit that took over once Funimation took over from Pioneer. Of course, the doctored episodes from Pioneer were awful and I can't stand a second to watch those. Really, I'm hard pressed to watch any of the English dubs. Perhaps if they had kept the same music that was originally in the Japanese version. Although I hear they did that for the Dragon Box? Not that it matters to me that much as I still wouldn't watch it.

[VegettoEX]

Just to clarify that...

Pioneer had absolutely nothing at all to do with the production of DBZ episodes 1-53 in their original edited, English-dubbed-only incarnation from 1996-1998. That was FUNimation, and only FUNimation. Saban was their TV syndication distributor and sure, they compromised on edits and such to appease them, but everything regarding the production of the show was FUNimation as a company. Pioneer was the company chosen to put out the VHS and DVD releases, but by the time they got around to doing that, FUNimation had already aired all of those episodes on TV all on their own.

It's been FUNimation since 1994 when they picked up the license, and I don't see them going away any time soon.

[Ashura]

If I can dig up the appropriate tape I'll check, but I don't remember there being recaps or previews during any of the three parts. The first part aired after a normal episode one week, and the other two episodes aired the following week back-to-back, so it wasn't HUGELY necessary (remember that season two of the dub had a full hour block of two episodes).

There are definitely recaps or at least NEPs for Tree of Might. I also think every episode has the weirdly edited episode title, but I'm not sure. I've been meaning to capture the NEPS and things because they're super rare and I want to preserve them in some way for the community. It was only later on Cartoon Network when it aired that it was combined into one movie and didn't have all this stuff cut into it.

One thing I'll also note to some people in the thread is that I think 'butchery' isn't really fair for this movie in hindsight. The movie itself was probably the least edited Dragonball Z production at the time. I actually de-edited the edited dub to the Dragon Box and noticed some interesting stuff that some people have touched on:

1.) There is actually more footage in the TV edit than in the actual movie. There are a lot of extra scenes of Shenlong and Kaiou thrown in from the TV series to help pad things out, and a lot of the panning shots of wilderness are slowed down to pad more time.
2.) There is only one actual scene removal; it's where Tales (is that what we're calling him now?) has Goku's face under his boot and is gloating at him. This is no more violent than any other scene in the movie, too, and I figure it was probably removed to get the 3rd episode under 22 minutes more than anything else.
3.) There are a few paint edits. The biggest one is Tales gripping Gohan's face and shoving him up at the fake moon. Otherwise pretty much everything else is intact.

[matt0044]

Here's that scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bz51hcjWY-0

Wow, an "in your face" environmental message. Yep, it was the 90s.