The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[shonenhikada]

Yamcha is roughly on par with SSJ3 Goku. He's only a little weaker.

Yamcha isn't even close to Base Saiyans. I hope this is a joke. I would see how that conclusion makes sense in dbz filler, but in the manga he is nowhere near that good. He would've participated in the Tenkaichi Budokai with Goku and Vegeta if he was that strong.[/quote]

He said he gave up fighting. As in I no longer participate in taking part in martial art tournaments. Can't blame the guy with his track record.

[mysticboy]

Future Trunks (pre ROSAT) vs Trunks (end of DBZ)

[Saiga]

Future Trunks (pre ROSAT) vs Trunks (end of DBZ)

Trunks as a kid would take this. Future Trunks got stomped by 18 after all.

[dbzfan7]

Yamcha is roughly on par with SSJ3 Goku. He's only a little weaker.

Yamcha isn't even close to Base Saiyans. I hope this is a joke. I would see how that conclusion makes sense in dbz filler, but in the manga he is nowhere near that good. He would've participated in the Tenkaichi Budokai with Goku and Vegeta if he was that strong.

He said he gave up fighting. As in I no longer participate in taking part in martial art tournaments. Can't blame the guy with his track record.

He still isn't even close to SSJ3 Goku or even base Goku. He gave up fighting because he could no longer compete with the others. If he could compete with others I douhgt he would quit. Also why is something that you said quoted under my username.

Tao Pai Pai vs Piccolo Daimao(equal power levels)

[Fox666]

I will go with Piccolo Daimao. He use some inhuman techniques and can create the Dragon Clansmen.

[In Brightest Day]

Kibitoshin vs. Dabura.

[Saiga]

Kibitoshin vs. Dabura.

I believe Kibitoshin has the advantage in power, but Dabra has all sorts of tricks up his sleeve. If he hits Kibitoshin with his stone spit, it's over, but maybe Kibitoshin could use his Kai Kai technique to avoid attacks like that. He also has his paralysis, and I think he could finish Dabra by launching a powerful energy ball and hold Dabra in place for it to hit.

[CaptainKatsura]

Mirai Gohan SSJ vs Post-Yardrat Goku SSJ.

Are they in similar leagues of power, or one outclasses another by large margin? Your thoughts?

[Hellspawn28]

Wu Xing Long (Rage Shenron) vs. Yi Xing Long (Syn Shenron).

Rules:

- Yi Xing Long can't transform and Wu Xing Long is in his giant form.

- It's sunny outside and there will be no rain

There was a debate about this on another forum that I go on and people debated Wu Xing Long would have defeated Goku if it didn't rain. The electric slime was also one of the reasons Super Yi Xing Long managed to come back from being destroyed. Would Yi Xing Long be strong enough to blase Wu Xing Long into dust?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Stronger than him or Kami ? If latter i agree, but it could be very well Kami's fear of dai kaio being stronger than him (not piccolo), affecting Piccolo's will to fight him. Since Kami was always pretty weak. Its like vegeta said playing into old fears, when kaioshin mention destroy Freeza with one blast, and goku was impressed.

Stronger than Piccolo. And Kami technically is Piccolo now, since they returned as one.

Not necessarily it can also be looked at Kami's inferiority and fear of being infront of a powerful god playing on Piccolo and making him think he is weaker than supreme kai. Similar to how in a later scene Vegeta got scared, and goku was impressed by him bringing up destroying Freeza with one blast, while before they had no comment on how strong he was, and vegeta even eclaimed he thought supreme kai was weak from the start. Vegeta in that scene also brought up the idea of old fears, which i believe is similar to Piccolo's scene with supreme kai.

In short its like say your kami your weak sauce and are infront of supreme kai so you know how incredibly strong he is. Then let say you fuse with Piccolo, even though your physically stronger, Kami's mentallity is he's still weak sauce compared to supreme kai, and so would project on Piccolo.

Well...yeah, something like that. I see what you mean. Namekian fusion's weird in that both Nail and Kami say that it won't have any effect on Piccolo's personality, since he'll be the base, but Piccolo obviously has an affinity with Dende, choosing to stay Kami's Palace when he previously lived in the mountains, and revering the Kaioushin.

So, yes, I kind of agree with you. That's probably why Piccolo was wondering himself why it was so difficult to fight him, when he hadn't even met him before. But I don’t think Piccolo was wrong by any means. He made an assumption about Kaioushin’s strength based on his status, and he was right. I do think that the Kaioushin, regardless of Piccolo's statement, was stronger than Piccolo, because he was only even proven to be weaker than the adult Super Saiyans. And, other than that, we have nothing to base his strength on.

Future Trunks (pre ROSAT) vs Trunks (end of DBZ)

Future Trunks loses hard, since he was stomped by #18 while present Trunks scared her shitless with a suppressed blast, enough to end the match via exposing Goten and Trunks' identities without a risky battle and disqualifying them.

Tao Pai Pai vs Piccolo Daimao(equal power levels)

Daimaou wins, because of his array of techniques and that he seems like a better and more tenacious fighter.

Kibitoshin vs. Dabura.

Kibitoshin may be able to put up a decent fight, but Dabra’s superior magic would win. Kaioushin, despite having previously paralyzed SS2 Gohan, was scared of Dabra, so he probably couldn’t have paralyzed him, and a power boost to make him about as strong as the aforementioned SS2 Gohan (so, slightly weaker than Dabra—and yes, when dealing with battle powers, it’s easier to just say that Gohan was SS2 against Dabra here) wouldn’t do much to help that.

Mirai Gohan SSJ vs Post-Yardrat Goku SSJ.

I think SS future Gohan's equal with SS Gokuu on Namek, so he'd put up a good fight before losing. Gokuu’s just overall more skilled and has teleportation too.

[shonenhikada]

So, yes, I kind of agree with you. That's probably why Piccolo was wondering himself why it was so difficult to fight him, when he hadn't even met him before. But I don’t think Piccolo was wrong by any means. He made an assumption about Kaioushin’s strength based on his status, and he was right. I do think that the Kaioushin, regardless of Piccolo's statement, was stronger than Piccolo, because he was only even proven to be weaker than the adult Super Saiyans. And, other than that, we have nothing to base his strength on.

Well they are a few things that contradict.
1. he outright states he can't beat goku in the tournament only knowing SSJ transformation.
2. He overhears Vegeta stating he can beat goku, yet still worries for Vegeta against Pui Pui who thinks 10x earth gravity will give him an advantage in a fight. He is even dumbfounded by vegeta's strength when vegeta beats Pui Pui effortlessly stating their this strong, while both Gohan and Goku are unfased.
3. He considers ganging up on Yakon in order to defeat him, after goku is hurt who has a kiri reading of 800, which is less than 1/3 of base Goku.
4. He is commented by Dabura to be trash next to the base saiyans.

Also factoring in the following.

5. Gohan being stated to be weaker than his cell games counterpart.

6. Goku and Vegeta claiming to be stronger than Gohan during the cell games, but not by much.

7. Piccolo being able to hold his own against the cell jr. on panel.

Then

The only way Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo can hold true is if Piccolo had gotten incredibly weakened during those 7 years.

[Piccolo Daimao]

So, yes, I kind of agree with you. That's probably why Piccolo was wondering himself why it was so difficult to fight him, when he hadn't even met him before. But I don’t think Piccolo was wrong by any means. He made an assumption about Kaioushin’s strength based on his status, and he was right. I do think that the Kaioushin, regardless of Piccolo's statement, was stronger than Piccolo, because he was only even proven to be weaker than the adult Super Saiyans. And, other than that, we have nothing to base his strength on.

Well they are a few things that contradict.
1. he outright states he can't beat goku in the tournament only knowing SSJ transformation.
2. He overhears Vegeta stating he can beat goku, yet still worries for Vegeta against Pui Pui who thinks 10x earth gravity will give him an advantage in a fight. He is even dumbfounded by vegeta's strength when vegeta beats Pui Pui effortlessly stating their this strong, while both Gohan and Goku are unfased.
3. He considers ganging up on Yakon in order to defeat him, after goku is hurt who has a kiri reading of 800, which is less than 1/3 of base Goku.
4. He is commented by Dabura to be trash next to the base saiyans.

Also factoring in the following.

5. Gohan being stated to be weaker than his cell games counterpart.

6. Goku and Vegeta claiming to be stronger than Gohan during the cell games, but not by much.

7. Piccolo being able to hold his own against the cell jr. on panel.

Then

The only way Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo can hold true is if Piccolo had gotten incredibly weakened during those 7 years.

Alright, debunking time!

1. I always thought that Kaioushin was just being coy, since he had a weird/creepy/mysterious grin on his face the whole time, and was later surprised by Gokuu and co.’s strengths.

2. The reason Kaioushin was scared for Vegeta going up against Pui-Pui was because he was scared of pretty much anyone associated with Bobbodi and Majin Boo. You know, the guys that killed his four stronger, older and wiser comrades? He knew to be cautious because Bobbodi’s henchmen could’ve been unpredictable and had tricks up their sleeve, like the potential advantage of Bobbodi taking them to their home planet (which actually happened with Yakon when Super Saiyan was taken out of the picture—Gohan offered to fight with Gokuu, implying that base Gokuu alone wouldn’t have been enough). I mean, if they have Dabra, King of the Demon Realm on their side, who knows what other monsters they could have?

Also, suppression of ki isn't unique to just Earthlings and gods, you know. For all Kaioushin knew, Pui-Pui could've just been suppressing his ki before he fought Vegeta. In reality, it was lucky that Gokuu and co. turned out to be stronger than Bobbodi's henchmen. Except for, of course, Gohan against Dabra.

3. See above. Yakon was unpredictable, as far as Kaioushin knew, and actually had a shot at defeating Gokuu without SS, since Gohan offered to jump in when SS was taken out of the picture, when he was previously confident with Gokuu taking Yakon by himself.

4. *sigh* Poor writing. This whole segment is shitty writing. Dabra was apparently able to sense some kind of extraordinary dormant power within Gokuu, Gohan and Vegeta, which presumably would’ve been SS, but presumably he couldn’t detect all of it, as he was surprised by their strengths in SS (and all he said when Gokuu transformed was “He’s glowing!”). How could he do this, when they were all suppressed to zero? MAGIC. No other explanation for it. Aaaaand then later, he and Bobbodi need a kiri meter to compare Gokuu and Yakon’s power. Seriously, fuck this portion of the Boo arc—I can hardly blame people for getting their interpretations fucked.

So, no, Kaioushin can be stronger than Piccolo without the latter having to have weakened during those 7 years, which is a stupid theory in and of itself because Piccolo isn’t Gohan, he’s a warrior who wouldn’t cease training in peacetime.

[dbgtFO]

^^Also Yakon does NOT have a kiri reading less than a third of Goku(normal). That would be Super Saiyan Goku you're referring to...

[Piccolo Daimao]

^^Also Yakon does NOT have a kiri reading less than a third of Goku(normal). That would be Super Saiyan Goku you're referring to...

And mastered SS Gokuu was likely suppressed anyway, since he only transformed to give light to the area so that he could see Yakon in the dark.

[Saiga]

4. *sigh* Poor writing. This whole segment is shitty writing. Dabra was apparently able to sense some kind of extraordinary dormant power within Gokuu, Gohan and Vegeta, which presumably would’ve been SS, but presumably he couldn’t detect all of it, as he was surprised by their strengths in SS (and all he said when Gokuu transformed was “He’s glowing!”). How could he do this, when they were all suppressed to zero? MAGIC. No other explanation for it. Aaaaand then later, he and Bobbodi need a kiri meter to compare Gokuu and Yakon’s power. Seriously, fuck this portion of the Boo arc—I can hardly blame people for getting their interpretations fucked.

As I've said before, the problem can be cleared up by assuming ki and energy are too different things. Ki would be your life-force and a representation of your power, and energy would be what fuels it (and transformations). So Dabra can sense energy, but not ki/power. That's what they need the kiri meter for. And the Saiyans have more energy because they need it for transforming.

I don't think anything contradicts this so I'm happy with this explanation.

[Piccolo Daimao]

4. *sigh* Poor writing. This whole segment is shitty writing. Dabra was apparently able to sense some kind of extraordinary dormant power within Gokuu, Gohan and Vegeta, which presumably would’ve been SS, but presumably he couldn’t detect all of it, as he was surprised by their strengths in SS (and all he said when Gokuu transformed was “He’s glowing!”). How could he do this, when they were all suppressed to zero? MAGIC. No other explanation for it. Aaaaand then later, he and Bobbodi need a kiri meter to compare Gokuu and Yakon’s power. Seriously, fuck this portion of the Boo arc—I can hardly blame people for getting their interpretations fucked.

As I've said before, the problem can be cleared up by assuming ki and energy are too different things. Ki would be your life-force and a representation of your power, and energy would be what fuels it (and transformations). So Dabra can sense energy, but not ki/power. That's what they need the kiri meter for. And the Saiyans have more energy because they need it for transforming.

I don't think anything contradicts this so I'm happy with this explanation.

I know, that's what I did too. But it's still poor writing. Toriyama didn't explain it clearly enough; otherwise, so many people wouldn't have this problem. Ki is often described as being the same as energy, and vice versa. And then there's battle power, life-force, and strength, etc. So I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that they're all just multiple terms for the same thing - and they probably both are and aren't. If that makes sense.

[CaptainKatsura]

Yamcha (post Kami training) vs Raditz.

Who would be more disappointing?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yamcha (post Kami training) vs Raditz.

It would be a tie. Both of them would kill themselves by accident.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yamcha (post Kami training) vs Raditz.

Who would be more disappointing?

Yamcha wins with relative ease. The fight with the Saibaimen seemed to be set-up entirely to show that Piccolo and co. had surpassed the former villain, Raditz, but are still weaker than these new Saiyans, who are even stronger. It's a common trend in DB.

[Fox666]

Not exactly, technically Yamcha died fighting the Saibaiman, who is said to rivals Raditz. In that sense, Yamcha wasn't shown to surpass the former villain, but that he was capable of fighting on his own against him.