Women and Dragon Ball (and You)

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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MCDaveG
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Re: Women and Dragon Ball (and You)

Post by MCDaveG » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:19 am

soulnova wrote:
MCDaveG wrote:Ah, political correctness atacked even in this series. Someone didn't got enough with Popo missing his lips and wanna watch the world burn....
Just joking :lol:
I don't have any problem with it, it's shonen series for young boys! When we were at school, girls were poking fun of us watching stupid series like this and they were watching their own genres.

PS: We got the girls' revenge with Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku opening. For me it had bigger impact than forcily write the main cast in GT going trough transgender surgery.......

Not the general rule. I held a "party" at my house to watch the first appearance of Adult Goku. We were squealing like Justin Beiber fans. :lol:
Well, not general rule of course! Nothing can be generalized on 100%, but still nowadays, girls watching series like this are minority.
Only shonen series that got more popular with girls than boys I know about is Saint Seiya. Also, anime as whole in general is more popular with girls.
Fans of anime here in the western part of world are rather minority, unless some series goes ''pop culture''.
Here it's Naruto.

Nothing is black and white or in full percentage and everything varies and everything is huge structure of micro cosmoses.
Oh, I'm an huge philosopher. Be happy that I was sober when writing this!
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Eire
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Re: Women and Dragon Ball (and You)

Post by Eire » Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:00 am

Only shonen series that got more popular with girls than boys I know about is Saint Seiya
Yep, In 80s France. Because everywhere, beside your school, DB appealed to both and girls equally.
Have you ever seen One Piece or Fullmetal Alchemist fansite? In fact it's hardly to find one anime that appeal to boys without nods to the other gender (otherwise it doesn't work). Even Berserk have a lots of female followers (although I find them pretty scary).
Per aspera ad astra, man!

Women belong in the kitchen.
Men belong in the kitchen.
Everyone belongs in the kitchen, the kitchen has food

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Re: Women and Dragon Ball (and You)

Post by soulnova » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:40 pm

Eire wrote: Yep, In 80s France. Because everywhere, beside your school, DB appealed to both and girls equally.
Have you ever seen One Piece or Fullmetal Alchemist fansite? In fact it's hardly to find one anime that appeal to boys without nods to the other gender (otherwise it doesn't work). Even Berserk have a lots of female followers (although I find them pretty scary).
Oh, Berserk... another of the classics. The first time I read it I felt really bad when... well, you know. I was in the verge of tears and my stomach turning. Amazing story, I just wish Miura was constant with his releases.
Check out Journey's End, a short story of Goku and Vegeta's final days. "Time is running out for the last two Saiyans"

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Eire
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Re: Women and Dragon Ball (and You)

Post by Eire » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:03 pm

Quick question
Visually
Gryffith
or
Guts?
And more thoughtful
Do you think that Miura knows what's going on with his story or just try to keep readers apart from the interesting topics, because he didn't plan what to write next?

Well, Berserk is considered the seinenest-of-the seinens series but there's no chapter without at least one of two handsome males going around bare-chested, if not straightly naked. :mrgreen:
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Women belong in the kitchen.
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Everyone belongs in the kitchen, the kitchen has food

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Re: Women and Dragon Ball (and You)

Post by SparkyPantsMcGee » Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:49 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Hmm. Don't know if I agree that putting them in the head of household roles made them any more independent or integral than they were in the earlier stories. It's really just switching from one stereotype to another. When they're young, they're fanservice. When they're older, they fall into "wifey" roles. And that's a pretty common idea for Japan, for the women to stay at home and run the households while the men run off and earn money.

That said, I don't even know if I would consider that counting all that much. Only Chichi really falls into that role, which, again, is a natural extension of her character already and makes a humorous counterpoint foil to Goku's lack of understanding/interest in traditional households. True that the end of the series has Blooma make a few annoyed comments about that, but, again, that really just plays more into Vegeta's character and obvious lack of interest in household activities. But Blooma herself doesn't really seem like a "wifey" character. I mean, from what little we see, Capsule Corp. is run by robot servants. Not to mention that it's really her father's house that she never moves out of, and that she's really mostly seen working on gadgets and stuff than housework. That I suppose is independent and integral, but that's really no different from her early roles, just with fanservice toned down because such elements were turned down in general as the series went on.
Head of household was the wrong phrase. Maybe it's the Funimation dub that's sticking in my mind but I always felt like even though they held "traditional" housewife roles, that they had more control then the husbands. There was always this tone of "You may be the prince of Saiyans but I run this place and we play by my rules" coming from Bulma in terms of their relationship. And when Vegeta would make a stink about something she was the one calling him out on it and making him look like a fool. I dunno but I always interpreted that as Bulma holding the real power. Like here are these gods and yet they are still answering to these female earthings. I guess Chi-Chi fits the stereotype the most but it doesn't really break character. This is a role she basically wanted since she was a child. Take from that what you will I guess.

As I was typing this I started to think about their sort of implied impact on the universe. Off hand Bulma:
  • Built the Space-ship to get to Namek and save her friends
    Built a Time Machine for Trunks to warn the past(noble prize shit right there :lol: )
    Replicated Saiyan Armor for everyone to train in
    Reconstructed the "off switch" for the androids
    Re-wired 16 to have him fight on the heroes side(a later catalyst for Gohan to go SSj2)
    and it GT she made that machine that essentially allowed Vegeta to go SSj4
Chi-chi hasn't done all that much on camera, but when you really think about it she's acted like a single mother for most of the series. She took care of and put her sons through school all while being the only source of income for the household. I'd assume this is something that isn't as common in Japan. Granted this is a bit of a stretch but I think it speaks volumes about her character.

Videl and 18 didn't get as much time to develop so it's hard to call foul. However even though it's clear Krillin(and maybe even Roshi) answer to 18, I will say there was some missed opportunity for her to shine. Like I said if there was any new character that could keep up with the Saiyans and Piccolo it would have been 18. I don't think Toriyama would have objected to the idea so much as it never really crossed his mind.

I will say, that for a late 80's early 90's Shoenen series, Dragonball handled women and female characters better then most other series(even American series in some cases).
...Wait what are you doing? Are you still reading this? I finished what I had to say, why don't you move on to the next post?

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Eire
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Re: Women and Dragon Ball (and You)

Post by Eire » Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:11 pm

I always felt like even though they held "traditional" housewife roles, that they had more control then the husbands. There was always this tone of "You may be the prince of Saiyans but I run this place and we play by my rules" coming from Bulma in terms of their relationship. And when Vegeta would make a stink about something she was the one calling him out on it and making him look like a fool. I dunno but I always interpreted that as Bulma holding the real power.
Traditionally in Japan wife is the spouse with money.
Man is supposed to be the represent family outside home, but all "family matters" from managing finances to rising children and solely woman's territory. Salaries are usually send directly to the wifes who decide how much money the husband can spend for his own pleasures (literally giving him pocket money). Here we have even worse situation, where men fail at their role of breadwinner, so they are even more dependent to their women:)
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Women belong in the kitchen.
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Everyone belongs in the kitchen, the kitchen has food

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Re: Women and Dragon Ball (and You)

Post by SparkyPantsMcGee » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:57 pm

That was actually a nice little fun fact that I did not know about. Thank you. :)
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