Orin Temple Monks

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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Saiga
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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Saiga » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:17 pm

In Brightest Day wrote:Goku (and Yamcha, on a related note) being superhuman in our world but peak human within Dragonball would work for me, but Mr. Satan being killed by a bullet pretty much ruins that theory, IMO.
Gun technology improved over the years! 8)

That's my explanation and I'm sticking to it.
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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Fox666 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:20 pm

But why can't Mr. Satan make any extraordinary jump? Or break rocks? These are things Goku and Yamcha could do in the first chapters...

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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Saiga » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:28 pm

Fox666 wrote:But why can't Mr. Satan make any extraordinary jump? Or break rocks? These are things Goku and Yamcha could do in the first chapters...
Rock technology improved over the years!
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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Rocketman » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:51 pm

The exponential growth of the Z fighters sucked up all the potential energy of the Earth. The power that should be flowing into humanity is instead being diverted to the greedy foreign ticks.

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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by caejones » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:00 pm

I was actually thinking about a model of DB ki that fits Rocketman's post perfectly at one point... though I hadn't thought about it in that way.

I was also kinda assuming that dead-person ki kinda diffuses from the remains and gets recycled into the environment, hence the giant leaps everyone makes after a powerful opponent is killed.

But... yeah.

We could think about demographics in DB... like, the people paying attention to the tournaments as of Cell are part of a different audience from those before, just because Mr. Satan's participation in the Cell Games hyped the tournament. I might buy that explaining why people thought of Mark as the best, seeing as the demographic that knew about the likes of Namu, Bora, and Orin Temple were kinda drowned out by the masses.
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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by sonikku956 » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:51 am

When Goku and Krillin pushed that huge boulder, did they recieve any real training?

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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Godo » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:20 am

I think that we should remember that even in the real world, there are people that are able to pull trucks with ropes without much formal training. They are not by any means classed as superhuman, but merely as strong. That's where I believe that the likes of Mr. Satan would go.

Goku and Kuririn would in the beginning of Dragonball go as at borderline superhuman. A huge boulder such as the one they pushed could as well be as pulling a truck without wheels (why I class them as stronger than the strongest of this world's humans). But IMO at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, that's when we can class them as superhuman.

Mr. Satan, albeit in filler only, does perform such acts as ripping a phone book in half, or pulling a truck, further emphasizing about the extent of his power; still in the realms of this world.
His punch through the wall of the truck? Meh, lets say it was a thin wall.

And hitting through bricks, we have humans who can perform similar acts already.

So it makes sense that Mr. Satan wouldn't be able to survive a gunshot.

About Kuririn, I don't believe that he was much weaker than the older students of the Temple. I believe that he started out weak, but became stronger with time. But as the bullying started early, and the other students kept improving, his self esteem stayed low even though he became stronger. So they could bully him without any resistance, really. It was a self esteem issue IMO.

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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by In Brightest Day » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:24 pm

Just to clarify Godo, you're speaking within the Dragonball universe, right?

Eh, that still seems iffy to me. The audience and the announcer where completely gobsmacked at the fact that couldn't even keep up with Goku, Roshi, Namu and Kuririns movements during their fights.

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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Godo » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:57 am

I meant that Mr. Satan and other "normal" fighters (Panput, Namu and their likes excluded) could be compared to our real world's strongest fighters in comparison to their feats (which I gave examples of earlier). Hell, even Toriyama says that Mr. Satan could be compared to Bob Sapp in terms of power.

But when it comes to Kuririn, Goku and the rest, I believe that they were already in the beginning of Dragonball over that line, being significantly stronger than that. I don't believe that they were in the Superhuman league during the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai yet, though, but very close. With Superhuman I mean being able to shoot multiple kamehamehas, at least have the ability to float in the air (as in enough energy for that), super fast fighting ect. I mean, even Mr. Satan's kicks look fast...

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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by In Brightest Day » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:23 am

Well, Nam is definitely far above Panpoot and Mr. Satan's respective levels, but the 21st Budokai fighters (at least the ones that made it to the semi-finals [we already know Yamcha is superhuman by our worlds standard by kicking Goku through two or three large stone pillars]) are superhuman as they were moving faster than the eye could see and were fighting at a ridiculous speed. There is literally a step-by-step demonstration during the Jackie Chun-Kuririn fight.

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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:55 pm

In Brightest Day wrote:Goku (and Yamcha, on a related note) being superhuman in our world but peak human within Dragonball would work for me, but Mr. Satan being killed by a bullet pretty much ruins that theory, IMO.
How does it? Mr. Satan was clearly established as being an average martial artist with much undeserved hype when the majority of Earth's population had apparently forgotten about Gokuu and co. at the tournaments and believe Satan's bullshit claim of defeating Cell off-camera.

And by the way, Satan wasn’t killed by that bullet. He fell unconscious and probably would’ve died if Boo hadn’t healed him, but he wasn’t confirmed to be dead or needed Boo to “resurrect him from the dead”. At least, not in the manga; I don’t know about the anime.
In Brightest Day wrote:Well, Nam is definitely far above Panpoot and Mr. Satan's respective levels, but the 21st Budokai fighters (at least the ones that made it to the semi-finals [we already know Yamcha is superhuman by our worlds standard by kicking Goku through two or three large stone pillars]) are superhuman as they were moving faster than the eye could see and were fighting at a ridiculous speed. There is literally a step-by-step demonstration during the Jackie Chun-Kuririn fight.
Again, that was a gag scene, not meant to be taken seriously and therefore able to easily be dismissed. But aside from that, in-universe, judging by Kame-sennin (at that time, the greatest martial artist in the world)'s statement, Gokuu, Kuririn and Yamcha haven't broken past the wall of normal human ability until after the 21st Tenkaichi Budoukai, or maybe even as late as the 22nd Tenkaichi Budoukai. We're looking at it from the realm of our world, neglecting the reality that the Dragon Ball world is much different and fantastical.
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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Booney » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:39 am

How did Satan get shot again?
Cause maybe he got wounded from it the same way SSJ Goku got hurt from a rock.
Or was that another filler scene?
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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Godo » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:14 pm

Booney wrote:How did Satan get shot again?
Cause maybe he got wounded from it the same way SSJ Goku got hurt from a rock.
Or was that another filler scene?
He got shot by one of those two guys going around with rifles shooting innocent people.
It was in the manga too.

He had just beat down the one with the pony tail, and he suddenly rose up with a handgun and shot Mr. Satan in the back if I remember it correctly.
So it was pretty much unsuspected, and Mr. Satan didn't see it coming.

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Re: Orin Temple Monks

Post by Booney » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:10 pm

Ah yes I do remember that scene. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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