The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I don't believe that Vegeta got SS3 ever (he has the potential, but didn't even try because of its weakness, like with SS Grade 3), but even at Super Saiyan 2 he should be enough strong to beat that Boo.

[Kaboom]

Same here. Vegeta could take this with Super Saiyan 2. But less because of how much power he's gained and rather more because of how much power Boo lost.

[Rocketman]

I think Vegeta was already Mr Buu's equivalent, but I also think nobody gained much strength after Kid Buu's defeat. So a roughly even battle that Vegeta eventually wins.

[dbzfan7]

Personally I say it depends if Vegeta trained. Personally Mr. Boo was still stronger then him when they fought Kid Boo. He put up a much better fight. So unless he did some heavy training, I think he would still lose. Unless I missed something.

[Rocketman]

Personally Mr. Boo was still stronger then him when they fought Kid Boo. He put up a much better fight.

Vegeta can't regenerate.

[dbzfan7]

Personally Mr. Boo was still stronger then him when they fought Kid Boo. He put up a much better fight.

Vegeta can't regenerate.

True, but when Boo wasn't regenerating, he still got hits in. Vegeta''s fight was far more one sided.

[Fox666]

I don't believe that Vegeta got SS3 ever (he has the potential, but didn't even try because of its weakness, like with SS Grade 3), but even at Super Saiyan 2 he should be enough strong to beat that Boo.

It's not as much of a weakness as Grade III. It lasts for a few (five?) minutes, and can fight stronger opponents. Compare to the Kaio-ken, which doesn't just has a limit, but also damages your own body, but it has proven not to be useless.

[Saiga]

Even with the drawback it'd be stupid not to bother obtaining SS3, because it is that much stronger than SS2. Better to deal with the energy drain against an even opponent than get your face planted into the ground because your opponent is 4x stronger.

Anyway, I'm sort of thinking that Boo regained his lost power and so Vegeta would need SS3 to win this, which I believe he would have by now. So yeah, Vegeta wins.

[SSJ3_Gogeta]

Vegeta easily wins with SSJ2.

Who do you think would win in FSSJ Goku (movie 4) vs. Initial Final form Freeza?

[Kaboom]

With how easily Goku was overwhelming Slug, he may well be able to beat Freeza too if he can maintain the power-up.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It's not as much of a weakness as Grade III. It lasts for a few (five?) minutes, and can fight stronger opponents.

Goku, Vegeta and Trunks abandoned Grade 2, which even though increased both power & speed, it had most likely limited stamina. So they kept training & fighting in Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan 3 seems to have even more limited stamina, since it rapidly reduces the user's ki from one point, making the user unable to even go Super Saiyan Full Power (not at full power, I'm referring to Goku's & Gohan's special state). So, I wouldn't be surprised if Vegeta decides to get stronger in his Super Saiyan 2.

Compare to the Kaio-ken, which doesn't just has a limit, but also damages your own body, but it has proven not to be useless.

Goku used Kaio-ken to the point that his body got damaged only against Vegeta, since he didn't have any other choice to defeat him. However, after going Kaio-ken x3 & x4, he was way too damaged. If Vegeta hadn't turned into an Oozaru, Goku would still be defeated by by Vegeta. So, going Kaio-ken beyond your body's limits isn't a good idea, except if you have a chance to beat the opponent.

[mysticboy]

Goku, Vegeta and Trunks abandoned Grade 2, which even though increased both power & speed, it had most likely limited stamina. So they kept training & fighting in Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan 3 seems to have even more limited stamina, since it rapidly reduces the user's ki from one point, making the user unable to even go Super Saiyan Full Power.

Why didn't Goku abandon SSJ3 then?

[Kaboom]

If you want to get technical, then we never did see Goku use or even mention Super Saiyan 3 again after it failed him against Pure Boo. He even mentioned how it was essentially impossible to use while you're alive, and he did stay as such after that.

So for all we know, he did abandon the form.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku, Vegeta and Trunks abandoned Grade 2, which even though increased both power & speed, it had most likely limited stamina. So they kept training & fighting in Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan 3 seems to have even more limited stamina, since it rapidly reduces the user's ki from one point, making the user unable to even go Super Saiyan Full Power.

Why didn't Goku abandon SSJ3 then?

How do you know? We never saw any serious fight after Boo arc in the manga. In the anime at least, Goku used it against Hildegarn briefly to defeat him, and in GT he only used it 2 times against Vegeta Baby & Super Baby 2, and in both of these fights his enemy was much, much stronger than him, so he used it as a last resort. GT also confirmed that Vegeta couldn't go Super Saiyan 3 by then, even though he should be powerful enough to do so.

[SSJ3_Gogeta]

In canon Dragon Ball (i.e. excluding movies and GT), it was never elaborated upon Goku's usage of SSJ forms after Kid Buu's death; he simply fought uub in base and then the series ended.

The new "canon" movie coming out in 2013 that takes place in the lost decade may provide some insight on the subject, however.

[mysticboy]

How do you know? We never saw any serious fight after Boo arc in the manga. In the anime at least, Goku used it against Hildegarn briefly to defeat him, and in GT he only used it 2 times against Vegeta Baby & Super Baby 2, and in both of these fights his enemy was much, much stronger than him, so he used it as a last resort. GT also confirmed that Vegeta couldn't go Super Saiyan 3 by then, even though he should be powerful enough to do so.

I'm only counting the canon. And you and Kaboom are right. For all we he did abandon it, BUT at the same time, we also don't know what kind of powerful villains (if any at all) that could've came and went. Vegeta and/or Goku may have come into a situation were they needed SSJ3 for a quick moment at least.

Also, Dabura (pre-Majin power up) vs. FPSSJ Goku (Cell Games)

[Kaboom]

Dabura (pre-Majin power up) vs. FPSSJ Goku (Cell Games)

Given that Bobbidi's power-up is based on dormant power, I don't think we have any good way to guess Dabra's power before it. So this one's a unknowable toss-up.

[Fox666]

Goku, Vegeta and Trunks abandoned Grade 2, which even though increased both power & speed, it had most likely limited stamina. So they kept training & fighting in Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan 3 seems to have even more limited stamina, since it rapidly reduces the user's ki from one point, making the user unable to even go Super Saiyan Full Power (not at full power, I'm referring to Goku's & Gohan's special state). So, I wouldn't be surprised if Vegeta decides to get stronger in his Super Saiyan 2.

It can be explained that they never used Grade II again because after the battle with Cell they achieved Super Saiyan 2, and Cell can also use a transformation of that kind.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku, Vegeta and Trunks abandoned Grade 2, which even though increased both power & speed, it had most likely limited stamina. So they kept training & fighting in Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan 3 seems to have even more limited stamina, since it rapidly reduces the user's ki from one point, making the user unable to even go Super Saiyan Full Power (not at full power, I'm referring to Goku's & Gohan's special state). So, I wouldn't be surprised if Vegeta decides to get stronger in his Super Saiyan 2.

It can be explained that they never used Grade II again because after the battle with Cell they achieved Super Saiyan 2, and Cell can also use a transformation of that kind.

But why none of them used it during the Cell Games?

[mysticboy]

But why none of them used it during the Cell Games?

I thought Vegeta was Grade II when was fighting the Cell Jrs.