Did the acting in Kai get lazy after Freeza?

[Gozar]

I'll never forget that "Hiya!".

I'm sorry. What is this referring to?

I think this

Wow. I never even noticed that when watching. That's pretty funny.

[linkdude20002001]

Vegeta had one of the best changes of all. He sounds much better now imo.

His acting is better, but he really doesn't sound any different than the 2007 DBZ re-dub.

[DBZnut]

The acting got a lot worse after freeza, I noticed the difference very much, i just didn't feel as focused or entertained by it towards the end, especially the 7th and 8th dvd.

But that's just my personal Opinion, The voices were better most of the time, but it all seemed off to me in the 8th dvd

[Gozar]

Vegeta had one of the best changes of all. He sounds much better now imo.

His acting is better, but he really doesn't sound any different than the 2007 DBZ re-dub.

I disagree. In the 2007 Re-dub material Sabat was verging on Piccolo at times. In Kai, he seems to have found a balance on how to smooth out and deepen Vegeta, but still make it sound like Vegeta and not Piccolo.

[linkdude20002001]

Hmm... Maybe. I know that from stuff in general, though, it didn't sound too different. Maybe it got higher pitched in 2007, then got depper again for the games and Kai. But even then, there's a scene where Vegeta laughs at Gohan's misery while they show Piccolo on screen (maybe right AFTER they showed Piccolo), and it sounded to me like Piccolo was laughing at Gohan...

[Taku128]

We all know Goku wouldn't even know what the internet is.

Maybe, maybe not. You don't really know one way or the other. I mean, he can't be -completely- unaware of the world around him, no matter how dumb WE make him in our version.

The internet was not a thing most people knew about back in 1993 when the Cell arc ended. This is less an issue of something not fitting the character and more something not fitting the context. Throughout the entire series we never see anything that hints that the internet or something equivalent to it that's widely known and used exists, so suddenly mentioning it is jarring and takes the viewer out of the show. A translation for an American audience should localize some elements of the dialog that are natural to a Japanese audience but not an American audience to things that are natural to an American audience, or throw in English phrases in certain places to make it sound more natural, but it shouldn't use references to things that either don't fit the time period or don't fit into the world that the show has created. Referencing the internet breaks both of these things.

It's like Falco saying "Hey Einstein, I'm on your side!" in Star Fox 64. Sarcastically calling someone Einstein after they do something stupid is a thing people do in the English language, but within the context of Star Fox 64 it brings up questions about how this universe of talking animals who fly space ships and fight against an evil army of monkeys know who Einstein is, and how Einstein fits into their weird future space-animal universe mythos, and if their version of Einstein is still a human or some other kind of animal, and then before you know it you've flown into a wall and broken your wings off because you were so caught up in decoding this throwaway line and now you're stuck with the shitty single laser again. Referencing Einstein without thinking about how it doesn't fit into the context of a world where humans don't exist is lazy, and so is referencing the internet in a show that was written before anyone knew what the fuck an internet even was.

[Freeza Heika]

We all know Goku wouldn't even know what the internet is.

Maybe, maybe not. You don't really know one way or the other. I mean, he can't be -completely- unaware of the world around him, no matter how dumb WE make him in our version.

The internet was not a thing most people knew about back in 1993 when the Cell arc ended. This is less an issue of something not fitting the character and more something not fitting the context. Throughout the entire series we never see anything that hints that the internet or something equivalent to it that's widely known and used exists, so suddenly mentioning it is jarring and takes the viewer out of the show. A translation for an American audience should localize some elements of the dialog that are natural to a Japanese audience but not an American audience to things that are natural to an American audience, or throw in English phrases in certain places to make it sound more natural, but it shouldn't use references to things that either don't fit the time period or don't fit into the world that the show has created. Referencing the internet breaks both of these things.

It's like Falco saying "Hey Einstein, I'm on your side!" in Star Fox 64. Sarcastically calling someone Einstein after they do something stupid is a thing people do in the English language, but within the context of Star Fox 64 it brings up questions about how this universe of talking animals who fly space ships and fight against an evil army of monkeys know who Einstein is, and how Einstein fits into their weird future space-animal universe mythos, and if their version of Einstein is still a human or some other kind of animal, and then before you know it you've flown into a wall and broken your wings off because you were so caught up in decoding this throwaway line and now you're stuck with the shitty single laser again. Referencing Einstein without thinking about how it doesn't fit into the context of a world where humans don't exist is lazy, and so is referencing the internet in a show that was written before anyone knew what the fuck an internet even was.

There IS internet in the Dragonball universe, though. The Jump super whatcha-ma-thingy had Gohan using the internet, near the beginning.

[matt0044]

Plus, I may be playing devil's advocate here but aren't we being over analytical over a mere throwaway line. It's not like the old dub where they were EVERYWHERE.

Oh what am I saying? I should be more use to things like these on forums.

[AgitoZ]

There IS internet in the Dragonball universe, though. The Jump super whatcha-ma-thingy had Gohan using the internet, near the beginning.

But that doesn't make sense in context either. No one gave it a second thought in 2008 when it was out because computers had become a normal part of society. If it was still 1995, when the Boo arc was still being animated, that scene would not have happened.

If you want to think of an in-universe explanation you could say in the 9 years between that scene and the Cell arc, the use of computers and the internet became so widespread that even hicks like the Sons could get it.

But I digress from my point, there is no evidence from the TV series itself that shows the internet being commonplace. Lines like that are nitpicks for sure, but they still keep the dub from being the most faithful out there.

[matt0044]

But I digress from my point, there is no evidence from the TV series itself that shows the internet being commonplace. Lines like that are nitpicks for sure, but they still keep the dub from being the most faithful out there.

Hey, at least things like "Vegeta killing Grandpa Gohan" and other dub induced plot hole aren't there. The script may not be 100% dead on (more like 90% but YMMV) but important plot elements and character traits come through.

Plus, Dragon Ball never really truly explored the daily lives of your average joe so there's a lot of them we know little of. And if stuff like hover cars and jets are commonplace there, the internet would be a piece of cake to whip up.

I'm getting the feeling that certain things aren't meant to be so in-depthly looked at.

[Taku128]

Plus, I may be playing devil's advocate here but aren't we being over analytical over a mere throwaway line. It's not like the old dub where they were EVERYWHERE.

Oh what am I saying? I should be more use to things like these on forums.

But I digress from my point, there is no evidence from the TV series itself that shows the internet being commonplace. Lines like that are nitpicks for sure, but they still keep the dub from being the most faithful out there.

Hey, at least things like "Vegeta killing Grandpa Gohan" and other dub induced plot hole aren't there. The script may not be 100% dead on (more like 90% but YMMV) but important plot elements and character traits come through.

Plus, Dragon Ball never really truly explored the daily lives of your average joe so there's a lot of them we know little of. And if stuff like hover cars and jets are commonplace there, the internet would be a piece of cake to whip up.

I'm getting the feeling that certain things aren't meant to be so in-depthly looked at.

"But these other parts aren't as bad" don't negate criticism of another aspect of something, and if you aren't interested in over-analyzing a show that clearly never had that much thought into it you shouldn't be posting on a Dragon Ball forum.

[matt0044]

"But these other parts aren't as bad" don't negate criticism of another aspect of something, and if you aren't interested in over-analyzing a show that clearly never had that much thought into it you shouldn't be posting on a Dragon Ball forum.

Alright, I'm sorry. I was clearly in the wrong there and I should've kept my mouth shut and gone with the flow.

I mean it. I'm sorry for the bother. If you want a real contribution, I myself don't mind the line yet we could've done without for sure.

BTW, wasn't this thread about the acting and not scripting?

[Taku128]

I'm not trying to be a jerk anything, it's just extremely annoying when someone tries to counter a complaint with "Well it's not as bad as it used to be" and "I should have figured those guys on Kanzenshuu would complain about the dub".

And yes the topic was originally about the acting, but a conversation about the script naturally sprouted up because the translation took a similar dive in quality around the same time.

[matt0044]

And yes the topic was originally about the acting, but a conversation about the script naturally sprouted up because the translation took a similar dive in quality around the same time.

Strange, I never noticed anything that obvious. Okay, some of Cell's lines did have an odd delivery. Not bad but they had a weird vibe to them.

Then again, I've always like things that others took issue in so maybe I'm just the odd one out?

[Jackal puFF]

And yes the topic was originally about the acting, but a conversation about the script naturally sprouted up because the translation took a similar dive in quality around the same time.

Strange, I never noticed anything that obvious. Okay, some of Cell's lines did have an odd delivery. Not bad but they had a weird vibe to them.

Then again, I've always like things that others took issue in so maybe I'm just the odd one out?

Cell's voice while he was in the beam struggle with Gohan was pretty weird.. I didn't like how he kept saying BOY!

[Fionordequester]

Am I the only one who thinks that it was the MUSIC that was making their acting SOUND bad, and we just couldn't quite put that feeling into words? Because I didn't notice any drop in the performances, but I DID feel way less excited whenever I was watching the scenes, and I think the music score and it's placement had a lot to do with it. AT least, for me it did.

Of course, I admit, I never really enjoyed the Japanese score as much as the Faulconer or the Westwood dub scores to begin with, so...I mean, it's still better than most of the alternate scores, but...I always felt like it was just kind of dull.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Am I the only one who thinks that it was the MUSIC that was making their acting SOUND bad, and we just couldn't quite put that feeling into words? Because I didn't notice any drop in the performances, but I DID feel way less excited whenever I was watching the scenes, and I think the music score and it's placement had a lot to do with it. AT least, for me it did.

Of course, I admit, I never really enjoyed the Japanese score as much as the Faulconer or the Westwood dub scores to begin with, so...I mean, it's still better than most of the alternate scores, but...I always felt like it was just kind of dull.

Which of Kai's scores are you referring to? The Yamamoto score, or the Kikuchi score?

Because I would agree that, with a few exceptions, the Kikuchi score wasn't as properly mixed as the Yamamoto score and did decrease my enjoyability of a few scenes. I'd still take either of them over Faulconer or the Westwood dub's scores, though.

[Fionordequester]

I'm referring to the Kikuchi score. The Yamamoto score was pretty good, probably on par with the Westwood dub, and with better placement. Or at least, they don't play songs like 2:06-2:38 here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eyPAzyC0us

...Like it's fricken Guile's Theme. Seriously, if you think the Yamamoto score was bad about playing this song...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NokXLGU7 ... re=related

...You ain't seen NOTHING yet. In fact, up until about a brief stretch during the buildup to the Cell Games, that song seemed to literally at least once in EVERY...SINGLE...EPISODE, all the time, and in many of the most blatantly inappropriate moments, including, but not limited to...

1) Piccolo getting stabbed by Cell's tail in their first fight.
2) Android #17 getting absorbed (and possibly #18).
3) Gohan's SSJ2 transformation
4) Generally a lot of scenes that are supposed to be horrific or frightening

...and at first, you figure they're doing this to soften the impact of some scenes, since Westwood will do some minor edits to some scenes, like Videl getting beat up...but then they have no problem applying music like :04-:28 here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAm8avdlFL4

...To scenes like a Cell Jr. slamming it's knee into Krillin's back. And to be fair, they stopped using that music for a long time after Cell's first fight with Piccolo, but they still used slightly less horrific music for other scenes...so...

But yeah, on it's own merits, I think it's about equal to Yamamoto, better (or at least more exciting) than Kikuchi, but still not as good as Team Faulconer. But I realize that I'm in a minority here, and that people's taste in music is radically different for different folks.

[matt0044]

Cell's voice while he was in the beam struggle with Gohan was pretty weird...

I thought it was the character being stressed in battle. All things considered...

As for lines like "and the internet connection..." and whatnot falls under the trope of "Rule of Funny" where the joke might not make sense but it's able to make you laugh. Toriyama was known for this (why did Ninja Murasaki have an America flag when Dragon Ball's Earth has no such place?) Sadly, humor is subjective like most things as yeah, it can "take your outta the moment" and that's not to say I advocate the dub including lines like these. I just thought I put this out there since there is a reason for these kinds of gags.

[LiamKav]

The argument would generally be "Toriyama can get away with it because he is the original writer, whereas the dub writers should be keeping things accurate". I move back and forth depending on how good the rewrite is. If it involves anyone being from Space Australia, it is a winner.