Who is the biggest failure in the series: Yamcha or Chaozu?

[Piccolo Daimao]

Chaozu is one of the best martial artists in the series, dies once or twice, and spends his days bettering himself and his technique with his best friend. Could most likely kill most men without thinking. Yamcha is exactly the same, except he retired, because he's the xth strongest guy in existence.

If not being able to bust the planet open is the measure of failures, than Oolong is the biggest failure in the series. Just mooches off Capsule Corp. and he can't even transform at the same level Puar can.

I think the reason that they're considered failures is that, despite being probably one of the strongest people in the universe, they rarely ever even win a fight, because most of their opponents are so much stronger than them and they just have shit luck (e.g. Yamcha being the only person to die against the Saibaimen before actually fighting the Saiyans, Chaozu getting taken out by Tao Pai Pai and being the only Z-Senshi to not qualify for the 23rd TB).

[Saiga]

The reason they're failures is because they're only really stronger than muggles and a few weak non-muggle villains.

[dbzfan7]

Yamcha apparently hooked up with women so he doesn't fail entirely (oh no blasphemy). Chaozu only in the weird db movie 3 was with a doll. So I guess in life Yamcha wins.

[Ninja Murasaki]

The reason they're failures is because they're only really stronger than muggles and a few weak non-muggle villains.

By the end of the series both are easily capable of easily defeating every villain in DB and most of the Planet trade Organization.

Just because they're outshined by the other protagonists and don't get much of a chance to show their skills in the series, doesn't make them "Failures."

[Saiga]

By the end of the series both are easily capable of easily defeating every villain in DB and most of the Planet trade Organization.

Just because they're outshined by the other protagonists and don't get much of a chance to show their skills in the series, doesn't make them "Failures."

Every DB villain, yes, but we don't know how strong they were after the Saiyan Arc so we can't say they'd defeat most of the PTO.

They're still failures, because we're not supposed to be comparing them to muggles or villains defeated way back then. They couldn't keep up, and that's why they're failures.

[Ninja Murasaki]

By the end of the series both are easily capable of easily defeating every villain in DB and most of the Planet trade Organization.

Just because they're outshined by the other protagonists and don't get much of a chance to show their skills in the series, doesn't make them "Failures."

Every DB villain, yes, but we don't know how strong they were after the Saiyan Arc so we can't say they'd defeat most of the PTO.

They're still failures, because we're not supposed to be comparing them to muggles or villains defeated way back then. They couldn't keep up, and that's why they're failures.

Because of course fighting is the only thing that matters in the entire series. There's no need for funny and interesting characters, the only thing that matters is if they're strong.

[Saiga]

Because of course fighting is the only thing that matters in the entire series. There's no need for funny and interesting characters, the only thing that matters is if they're strong.

Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say anything like that.

They tried to keep up. They failed. That makes them failures, i.e. People who fail at what they try to do.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Because of course fighting is the only thing that matters in the entire series. There's no need for funny and interesting characters, the only thing that matters is if they're strong.

Don't put words in my mouth, I didn't say anything like that.

They tried to keep up. They failed. That makes them failures, i.e. People who fail at what they try to do.

Thats what you were implying by saying their failures because they're not the strongest protagonists.

Actually both decide to do other things in the series and we're shown they did improve. Dr. Gero even mistook Yamcha for Goku based off power level.

In short: Not being the strongest protagonist≠failures

There are other things that make a good character

[Saiga]

Thats what you were implying by saying their failures because they're not the strongest protagonists.

Actually both decide to do other things in the series and we're shown they did improve. Dr. Gero even mistook Yamcha for Goku based off power level.

In short: Not being the strongest protagonist≠failures

There are other things that make a good character

No, that's not what I was implying. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I never said anything about them being good characters or not.

[Ninja Murasaki]

Thats what you were implying by saying their failures because they're not the strongest protagonists.

Actually both decide to do other things in the series and we're shown they did improve. Dr. Gero even mistook Yamcha for Goku based off power level.

In short: Not being the strongest protagonist≠failures

There are other things that make a good character

No, that's not what I was implying. Stop putting words in my mouth.

I never said anything about them being good characters or not.

You were directly saying Not being the strongest protagonist=failures quoted directly "they couldn't keep up, and that's why they're failures." So you were saying that.

[Saiga]

You were directly saying Not being the strongest protagonist=failures quoted directly "they couldn't keep up, and that's why they're failures." So you were saying that.

Those two statements? Not the same thing. So no, I wasn't.

[Ninja Murasaki]

You were directly saying Not being the strongest protagonist=failures quoted directly "they couldn't keep up, and that's why they're failures." So you were saying that.

Those two statements? Not the same thing. So no, I wasn't.

What I quoted is about as blatant as a statement you could get. You directly said

They couldn't keep up, and that's why they're failures.

There's nothing more to add to this topic.

[Saiga]

What I quoted is about as blatant as a statement you could get. You directly said

They couldn't keep up, and that's why they're failures.

There's nothing more to add to this topic.

And, as I said, that is not saying "Not being the strongest protagonist=failures".

[Ninja Murasaki]

What I quoted is about as blatant as a statement you could get. You directly said

They couldn't keep up, and that's why they're failures.

There's nothing more to add to this topic.

And, as I said, that is not saying "Not being the strongest protagonist=failures".

You're saying "Not being able to keep up equals failure" which is basically the same thing.


I disagree with that view but if that is what you think, its your right.

[Olympian]

I always cringe when I see a thread like this because I just know some view will pop up that are just...out there.

Yamucha talks big and thinks he's great for so long, but is constantly getting nerfed by enemies nobody even gives a second thought to. Then his girlfriend sleeps with the guy who indirectly murdered him and he's doomed to be FOREVER ALONE because nobody wants that loser

I`d like to ask you who are those enemies that "nobody gives a second thought to", that constantly nerf him.

His main record is:

. Goku (lost one fight in a room of 3) who is the main character of the whole saga.
. Lost to Roshi, Goku`s main opponent in the Finals who was deemed the winner - let`s not forget that unlike Kuririn, Yamcha didn`t had any kind of Turtle school training at this point.
. Was only having real problems with Invisible Man when Baba started to cheat. Kuririn was out of it in his first round.
. Lost to the final opponent of said championship who was obviously easily stronger than either him or Kuririn.
. Lost to Tenshinhan after a good scrap - someone Roshi deemed worthy of taking his own place and who faced Goku in the Finals and was deemed the winner.
. After a surprised beginning, managed to briefly knocked out or down GOD, before losing the match. God was someone who could scare Piccolo Jr in the Semi-Finals.
. Died against the Saibamen, after winning the match, when he was jumped on via suicide attack (something that could have happened to Ten, when he turned his back on the other downed Saibamen - before Vegeta blew him up for being pissed at it`s defeat).
. Almost died against Cyborg 20 via surprise shot. Unlike some Tumblr posters who consider this opponent just a gray old man, the intel gained from Yamcha helped them deal with him and 19. 20 wasn`t easy to catch as even Piccolo can assert.
. Defeated by the Cell Jr, like everyone else. Going by Cell, only Trunks and Vegeta had the chance of managing to hold they`r own, and even that wouldn`t last long before getting outgunned.

Unless I missed something you aren`t just wrong, you are flat out wrong. In most of these cases, Yamucha losing and the "why" was adressed by the other figthers. If anything, he is the measuring stick to help sell the credibility of a villain.

Just look at Yamucha's life. He went from being this cocky bandit to being a totally unmitigated failure in the space of a couple of chapters. And he never got better. At least Chaozu gave Kuririn some trouble the first time they fought. Yamucha is just shameful. His entire personality is being a loser

Is Vegeta that much better, personality wise? He got a wife that bosses him around, loses almost much every single fight he ever gets into, cries into tears when Freeza beats him up to a pulp after boasting (as he usually does) that he would walk over him and pretty much needs to concead that his main goal in life is worthless because of Goku.

Save Goku and Piccolo, I could say the same about many of the "main" characters, anyway. They all lose most of the fights they get into, if one notices. Yamucha and Vegeta stand out the most because they tend to have rasher personalities. Vegeta is
simply luckier he is of Saiyan breed.

Chaozu, on the other hand, at least made it to fight Nappa, and people were actually willing to stay on Kaio's planet and wait until he could be wished back if need be.

No, Tenshinhan was. Literally nobody else gives a shit about Chaozu.

Still hating on Chinese Dolls, Rocketman? Chaotzu was actually mentioned when arguing whether any of them would come back or not. You hearthless, heartless man.

Yamcha is touted as one of the actual main fighters, yet he never actually wins a single fight fair-and-square (even with Suke-san, he needed Roushi to orgasm blood over him before he could see his opponent and beat him.

How come the fact Yamucha was beating on the Invisible-Man on his own just fine by hearing up his footsteps - until Baba starts to cheat and sing is never mentioned?

Not a compeling argument enough?

[Toadster]

Who cares if Yamcha got a little bit of help from Roshi? Since when does getting some help not count for winning a fight? I guess Gohan didn't beat Cell fairly because Vegeta distracted Cell. Goku got help from Piccolo when Freeza was about to kill him. The list could go on. Fact is, Yamcha won at least one fight in the manga. Chaozu's only victory comes in filler land, against Guldo.

[Olympian]

I always got the idea that despite his martial prowess (that he would have to have to fight off Kuririn as well as he did) he was always supposed to be more of the TP user to Tenshinhan`s main muscle.

But yeah, agreed. One of the main reasons questions like these regarding these characters make me cringe. It comes down to pre-set perceptions of the characters.

[CaBrPi]

Honestly, I'd say Chaozu. Because you can pretty much remove him from the story entirely without any major consequences. All Chaozu ever did was give Tenshinhan a little extra motivation. Ten would still try to kill Piccolo Daimao and fail, still defeat Taopaipai, still die during the Saiyan fight, still hold off Cell, still "rescue" Gohan from Buu...

Get rid of Yamcha, and Bulma stays a carrot, therefore Goku either dies or becomes a carrot (or both), so no one can stop Piccolo, no one can stop Raditz from killing everyone.

[sonikku956]

Chaozu is one of the best martial artists in the series, dies once or twice, and spends his days bettering himself and his technique with his best friend. Could most likely kill most men without thinking. Yamcha is exactly the same, except he retired, because he's the xth strongest guy in existence.

If not being able to bust the planet open is the measure of failures, than Oolong is the biggest failure in the series. Just mooches off Capsule Corp. and he can't even transform at the same level Puar can.

He died three times, the same amount as Krillin.

[Daimakku]

Meh, they're only failures because they keep getting overshadowed by the saiyans and all these powerful beings. If you take the saiyans and all the extraterrestrials out of the equation, Yamcha and Chaotzu are some of the strongest beings on the planet. I'll even go ahead and say that Chaotzu might be able to beat Mr. Satan easily.