The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[TheMightyOzaru]

True, but still we can't know if enraged Gohan could beat Broli. The full power Kamehameha that was fired by SS2 Goku, SS2 Gohan & SS Goten couldn't break Broli's Barrier, and we know that for a Barrier to withstand damage, it must emit at least twice more ki than the attack. Even if Goku & Gohan were still Super Saiyans instead of Super Saiyan 2, if Broli was equal to Cell, I'm sure the Barrier would break, but it didn't.

And Gohan didn't get any weaker, nor any stronger, it was just much more difficult to draw power from his rage.

Gohan and Goku were not SSJ2 in the Family Kamehameha. There is no concrete proof not to mention Goku had not revealed SSJ2 yet so Toei wouldnt know about it. Furthermore Vegeta stated Gohan got weaker. Even furthermore Broly's Ki barrier was broken as soon as the Kamehameha hit him and no... Why would Broly's Ki suddenly be doubled upon putting up a barrier. I really suggest watching movie 10 again, something tells me you havent watched in a long time.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Gohan and Goku were not SSJ2 in the Family Kamehameha. There is no concrete proof

In the final "NOW!!!" that Goku screamed in the end, Goku's SS hairstyle changed looking very similar to his SS2 hairstyle.





Gohan's hairstyle changed as well to his SS2 hairstyle.



You could say that it's just the wind, but Goten's hairstyle didn't change at all. So, Goku & Gohan were SS2, IMO.

not to mention Goku had not revealed SSJ2 yet so Toei wouldnt know about it.

It's not the first time we got manga spoilers from a movie. Move 6 showed us Dende being in the position of God before it was revealed in the manga.

Vegeta stated Gohan got weaker.

And the Daizenshuu went deeper into that subject, saying that Gohan being weaker than before was because he couldn't get angry as easily as before, and confirmed that Gohan didn't get any stronger or weaker.

Broly's Ki barrier was broken as soon as the Kamehameha hit him

We never saw the barrier getting broken.

Why would Broly's Ki suddenly be doubled upon putting up a barrier.

Barrier
[bariyaa]
First Appears

Chapter 367
Category

Ki Manipulation
User(s)

Artificial Human No. 17, Cell, Vegetto
Characteristics

A technique where they use ki to create a barrier around themselves, guarding against their opponents' attacks. It can guard against ki attacks and also physical attacks such as missiles. What's more, Vegetto used it to successfully avoid being absorbed by Majin Buu (evil). However, in order to use a barrier, it is necessary to constantly emit ki. To cancel out the physical and ki attacks of their opponents, they must emit ki at least twice that of their opponents. It's natural that No. 17, with his infinite energy generator, was able to use this technique, and since perfect-form Cell took over that infinite energy generator he could use it as well. You can also understand how Vegetto, said to be the best in the universe in everything from ki control to ki strength, would be able to use it too. However, it seems that this technique cannot guard against attacks from those with ki far stronger than their own. (Daizenshuu 4, p.113)

I really suggest watching movie 10 again, something tells me you havent watched in a long time.

I re-watched the scenes, and I don't see anything I said being false.

[Strife1]

Welll....this should be in the versus thread first off :p
I think SPC would pull off the victory. Gohan had gotten weaker over the years, according to the Vegeta, Ssj2 Kid Gohan was most likely the most powerful kai he had ever felt, so i'm sure he remembers it. And we don't know if Gohan was stronger than cell as a kid. All we know is that his rage boosted the kamehameha and brought out his dormant power. Cell can also fight better than broly, his techniques would send Broly packing. It'd be a close fight, but Cell would ultimately take it, through skill, strength and regeneration.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Gohan and Goku were not SSJ2 in the Family Kamehameha. There is no concrete proof

In the final "NOW!!!" that Goku screamed in the end, Goku's SS hairstyle changed looking very similar to his SS2 hairstyle.





Gohan's hairstyle changed as well to his SS2 hairstyle.



You could say that it's just the wind, but Goten's hairstyle didn't change at all. So, Goku & Gohan were SS2, IMO.

It was the wind IMO. Gohan was weakened so I find it hard to believe that he was able to go SSJ2 right then and there. Goku is missing a certain SSJ2 trait that being an intense stair. SSJ2 eyes usually dont light up like that. Furthermore Broly had a hard time with SSJ2 Gohan in this movie. Gohan is scene breaking a hold and even kicking Broly away in base. Even if They did somehow ascend to SSJ2 that wouldnt really prove anything. Broly could be anywhere between Pre SSJ2 Family Kamehameha and Mid SSJ2 Kamehameha.

It's not the first time we got manga spoilers from a movie. Move 6 showed us Dende being in the position of God before it was revealed in the manga.

True but who is to say that this is the case here. Toriyama may have had Dende planned out at the time but to say he had SSJ2 planned out in the Buu saga, a saga in which he just made stuff up as he went. I find it hard to believe he had SSJ2 designed in advanced since this was during the Buu saga.

And the Daizenshuu went deeper into that subject, saying that Gohan being weaker than before was because he couldn't get angry as easily as before, and confirmed that Gohan didn't get any stronger or weaker.

That Daizenshuu contradicts itself I think that this was even stated by Herms.

I re-watched the scenes, and I don't see anything I said being false.

[/quote]

Umm dude what Barrier are you referring to? Are you referring to his large Ki attack or thing that was Broly attempted to put up but was broken?

[Insertclevername]

I'm starting to think Gohan and Gokuu were SSJ2 during the "Now!!!" part of the "Family Kamehameha!". The fact that Goten's hair doesn't change pretty much confirms it as far as I'm concerned.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I'm starting to think Gohan and Gokuu were SSJ2 during the "Now!!!" part of the "Family Kamehameha!". The fact that Goten's hair doesn't change pretty much confirms it as far as I'm concerned.

Goten's hair could very well be "more stiff" than everyone else.

[Insertclevername]

I honestly doubt that.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I honestly doubt that.

Why?

[Enbi]

He's got Goku's hair, he's part of their family; no need for his hair to be stiff while the others' aren't.

Edit: I believe there's also a manga panel of Goten flying with Trunks away from the tournament, and his hair is being blown back a bit. Granted, this occurs after M10 would've occurred, seeing as how that movie seems to take place before the Budokai, but it's still there, and it should disprove the notion of 'stiff hair' IMO.

[Insertclevername]

I just don't think that's what Toei was going for, since the previous explanation (Gohan and Gokuu going SSJ2) just seems so much more plausible.

[hleV]

Or Goten's Kamehameha makes weaker wind.

[Insertclevername]

Or Goten's Kamehameha makes weaker wind.

But wouldn't they be combining beams, so the wind should be equal. Even if they're beams weren't combined in that shot, it doesn't seems likely that the wind would be so lopsided, in such a tight space.

[Enbi]

If TOEI took the time to animate Gohan and Goku's hair like that, but not Goten's, then it's of significance IMO.

[Saiga]

Considering that it's the details that Toei consistently fucks up, I'm going to say it's not significant at all.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Or Goten's Kamehameha makes weaker wind.

But wouldn't they be combining beams, so the wind should be equal. Even if they're beams weren't combined in that shot, it doesn't seems likely that the wind would be so lopsided, in such a tight space.

It could be that Goten's energy output is too weak to push his hair back. Gohan and Goku are much stronger and the wind could be coming from there own individual attacks.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Plus Gohan and Goku going SSJ2 at the last minute doesnt really prove that Broly is stronger than Cell. Broly could be anywhere between the Pre SSJ2 Kamehameha and the post SSJ2 Kamehameha. Broly was having trouble with SSJ2 Gohan if any of you remember. Broly couldnt keep Gohan in a hold and was kicked away by Base Gohan so I doubt Broly is stronger than Cell. Plus since I believe that Cell is a Star buster I find it hard to believe that Broly could beat him based on the fact he couldnt stop an attack that didnt destroy the Sun.

[Insertclevername]

But even still, there have been way weaker Kamehameha's that have blown back hair, so why doesn't Goten's do the same for him.

[TheMightyOzaru]

But even still, there have been way weaker Kamehameha's that have blown back hair, so why doesn't Goten's do the same for him.

Probably just a Toei inconsistency to be honest. They do that sometimes

[Insertclevername]

This is true, so this whole conversation could be completely null and void!

Okay...how about....

SSj EoZ Goten and Trunks Vs. Bojack (Full power)

No fusion.

[TheMightyOzaru]

This is true, so this whole conversation could be completely null and void!

Okay...how about....

SSj EoZ Goten and Trunks Vs. Bojack (Full power)

No fusion.

IMO, Bojack would own both of them. They would need to combine a blast to even hope to defeat him.