Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[Saiga]

Yeah but All-Star Superman isn't an alternate Superman, it is the Superman everyone knows. It's place in canon is questionable but it's not like he's different from the standard like those other examples.

Cosmic Spider-man isn't an alternate, though. He's from the mainstream comics.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think the idea is that they wouldn't include particular unusual variations that just happen to occur to a character. Electric Superman, for example, wouldn't be taken into account, canon or otherwise. Like if there were an issue where Superman were granted stretchy powers like Mr. Fantastic, Death Battle wouldn't take those powers into account. It's the peculiarities that aren't included, which is understandable. But All-Star Superman doesn't really do that, though. It's kinda out of continuity but it's not peculiar. It'd be like if they used kid Goku from GT in the match. Yeah, it's a "valid" version but that's not the Goku people want to see fight.

[dbzfan7]

I think the idea is that they wouldn't include particular unusual variations that just happen to occur to a character. Electric Superman, for example, wouldn't be taken into account, canon or otherwise. Like if there were an issue where Superman were granted stretchy powers like Mr. Fantastic, Death Battle wouldn't take those powers into account. It's the peculiarities that aren't included, which is understandable. But All-Star Superman doesn't really do that, though. It's kinda out of continuity but it's not peculiar. It'd be like if they used kid Goku from GT in the match. Yeah, it's a "valid" version but that's not the Goku people want to see fight.

I'm pretty sure post-crisis is the most well known Superman. He is the most likely version they will use.

[TonyTheTiger]

All-Star is Post-Crisis. It was printed from 2005-2008. In terms of Superman, Post-Crisis essentially covers everything from 1986 to present, with the caveat that New 52 (sort of) rebooted everything again last year. So, at minimum, they'd consider feats between 1986-2011, which goes from Superman's "origin" in Man of Steel up until Flashpoint which set New 52 into motion.

With them using DBGT I imagine they'll use All-Star, too. Both are similarly situated in how they relate to the main source material, a potential "ending" to a series that many (most?) consider out of continuity (though All-Star is more blatant about not being canon). But truthfully, for the sake of sport, I'd honestly prefer if they ignored All-Star since Superman being broken tier is pretty much a plot point. It's unfair and would make the match less exciting. But I suppose Goku was equally broken tier in GT, what with him having some of the most shameless plot armor in DB history. So maybe it makes sense to use both.

[dbzfan7]

All-Star is Post-Crisis. It was printed from 2005-2008. In terms of Superman, Post-Crisis essentially covers everything from 1986 to present, with the caveat that New 52 (sort of) rebooted everything again last year. So, at minimum, they'd consider feats between 1986-2011, which goes from Superman's "origin" in Man of Steel up until Flashpoint which set New 52 into motion.

With them using DBGT I imagine they'll use All-Star, too. Both are similarly situated in how they relate to the main source material, a potential "ending" to a series that many (most?) consider out of continuity (though All-Star is more blatant about not being canon). But truthfully, for the sake of sport, I'd honestly prefer if they ignored All-Star since Superman being broken tier is pretty much a plot point. It's unfair and would make the match less exciting. But I suppose Goku was equally broken tier in GT, what with him having some of the most shameless plot armor in DB history. So maybe it makes sense to use both.

All star Superman is a 12 issue series running from January 2006 – October 2008 Post crisis comes from the line of modern superman comics.

I don't like how they brag how they gather info when they said SSJ was 5x base. Seriously? Way to do research.

[TonyTheTiger]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying that All-Star Superman isn't Post-Crisis? Because anything after Crisis on Infinite Earths is "Post-Crisis."

[batistabus]

I guess that final rule explains why GT's involved, since Superman doesn't even really have a set canon.

[dbzfan7]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying that All-Star Superman isn't Post-Crisis? Because anything after Crisis on Infinite Earths is "Post-Crisis."

All star was a side story I think, not in the main continuity. Most stories are followed by more storylines. All-star only had 12 issues. The modern version has several different issues that link together. Problem with Supes is in every incarnation he is so inconsistent. He has high feats and low feats that mess up all logic.

[Bussani]

All-Star Superman is very much a stand-alone story. As far as I remember, there are several reasons it can't be part of the ongoing DC canon. In fact, wasn't the whole point of it (as well as All-Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder) to allow the artists to create stories without being tied down by the continuity?

[Puto]

I don't like how they brag how they gather info when they said SSJ was 5x base. Seriously? Way to do research.

The DB universe research for Gokū vs Superman was done by Kanzenshuu, so don't expect those kinds of mistakes in this ;)

[VegettoEX]

So. Much.

So.

Much.

Research.

[TonyTheTiger]

All-Star Superman is very much a stand-alone story. As far as I remember, there are several reasons it can't be part of the ongoing DC canon. In fact, wasn't the whole point of it (as well as All-Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder) to allow the artists to create stories without being tied down by the continuity?

So are the Dragon Ball movies. But I'm assuming those will be taken into account, too, since Goku demonstrates a number of unique abilities in them. I don't think canon is much of a concern. Seems they're more interested in including everything for the sake of completeness and to stave off any butthurt that might generate 100 complaints of "but what about...?!"

[dbzfan7]

I don't like how they brag how they gather info when they said SSJ was 5x base. Seriously? Way to do research.

The DB universe research for Gokū vs Superman was done by Kanzenshuu, so don't expect those kinds of mistakes in this

Really, when did Kanzenshuu get involved.

[Puto]

As mentioned in the latest podcast, ScrewAttack mailed the Kanzenshuu staff asking for help with the research. The end result that was sent to them was a PDF with around 50 pages of research.

[dbzfan7]

As mentioned in the latest podcast, ScrewAttack mailed the Kanzenshuu staff asking for help with the research. The end result that was sent to them was a PDF with around 50 pages of research.

Yeah just saw and heard it.

Anyway I say it still depends on what they use from Superman. If they go Pre-Crisis feats, then Supes will would most likely win. If they go Post Crisis, I think in a tough battle Goku would win. I think Gt is only being used because it kind of ties in with Z. All Star feats may or may not be included since it doesn't tie in to 1 Superman. Post-Crisis scans I have seen have Superman much weaker then his Pre-Crisis counterpart. The blows that take him down are much weaker then Super Nova's or what ever in Pre-Crisis.

There are also several Superman to compare. I douhgt Goku is weaker then initial Superman. He couldn't even fly and had less strength then Spider-man.

[VegettoEX]

50 pages was the first research document.

[Saiga]

50 pages was the first research document.

Would we ever be able to see these documents? C:

[VegettoEX]

Not as-is, but in some fashion. Eventually. As a part of something else.

[Ryuman]

Awwww man.... Oh well, as long as we get to eventually see it and not let all that brilliant hard work go to waste.

[Bussani]

So are the Dragon Ball movies. But I'm assuming those will be taken into account, too

Fair enough, I guess.