Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

[Avenged]

Of course not, I've also read that they didn't even pay any of the actors. It was from one of their Twitter updates and they were giving thanks to everyone even though no one got paid. They simply just paid for expenses for everyone.

After watching that, I wouldn't have paid them either!

Oh hohoho! Hooo hohoho!

Ah, but seriously. I agree with Pafupafu on this one. A crappy product is still a crappy product. I'm not going to sugarcoat that.

IDK the actors who played Vegeta and Goku clearly have talent in the martial arts, as well as Tenshinhan. I thought that fight was portrayed pretty well for something fan made. Hell there was more intense fighting than what we saw in Evolution.

[DerekPadula]

PafuPafu, my suggestion is that if you're adamant about proving your case, then ask K & K for an interview and grill them with all the hard questions. Going directly to them is the only way to settle the issue. If you don't have a website to put the interview on, either make one yourself or send it to me and I'll post it on The Dao of Dragon Ball for you, with your name as the author.

Or simply accept that the film was made (and they may make another). It's out there, it exists, and there are people that love it.

...

I'm not trying to defend them. It's more like trying to understand why there is so much antagonism or hatred for a fan project, and diffusing any misunderstandings or assumptions. If I have the missing knowledge people are looking for, then I feel obligated to share it.

Poor use of the money? Maybe. Senseless fraud? Not at all. It's a simple combination of high ambition with lack of experience and a very critical fan base with even higher expectations. They had video updates showing how they were using the money and their gratitude for the funds. What more do you want? An itemized tax ledger?

Harry said that George was putting the finishing touches on the trailer's special effects up to the very last day, which implies they wanted it to be as good as they knew how to make it. In the opinion of some fans it wasn't good enough, but that doesn't warrant fraud. Plus in my first interview (before the funding) they stated they already had the Mark II camera, so I don't think that was the case. And even if they did buy a second one, that's not fraud either. That's a business expense, which is exactly what the funding was for. Some assets purchased will be soft (crew, locations), and others hard (technology).

In terms of finance, I don't consider $15,000 - $20,000 to be all that much. That amount of money goes fast. Are there talented people who can do more with less? Sure. But how are other people's abilities relevant? Also don't forget they initially asked for much less than they received (only asking for $5,000, and receiving $14, 273). Fans willingly gave them more then they asked for. They weren't greedy for money, were appreciative when they received it, and were hesitant to ask for more when necessary. Again, asking for $3,500 and receiving $7,301.

Fans across the world (including me - $10) donated money, and when you do that, you forfeit all responsibility and accountability for how that money is spent and your expectations should be checked at the door. It's up to those you invested in to use it properly. It's not unlikely the people you trust won't make a mistake or two, or that things won't work out with the crew (as was the case) and they'll go over budget and need to ask for more. It's even possible the project falls apart and produces nothing. If so, none of your money is returned. All things considered, K & K did what they set out to do.

From an objective perspective I find this to be a very fascinating moment in the history of Dragon Ball fandom. Nothing like this had been done before, so it's all very interesting to see how people are reacting.

[Avenged]

From an objective perspective I find this to be a very fascinating moment in the history of Dragon Ball fandom. Nothing like this had been done before, so it's all very interesting to see how people are reacting.

Here's an old live action project that was done much better with no funding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4_vAaXz89E

[DerekPadula]

Here's an old live action project that was done much better with no funding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4_vAaXz89E

Yeah, that video is a lot of fun and pretty well done (in some ways even better). But from what I know it came out of nowhere and had no lead up, funding or all these people talking about it in such a way. Or was there something similar going on in France (?) leading up to its release?

I was referring more to all the hooplah surrounding the project, and not so much the final result. Fair enough for providing the example though. Thanks.

[Pafupafu]

PafuPafu, my suggestion is that if you're adamant about proving your case, then ask K & K for an interview and grill them with all the hard questions. Going directly to them is the only way to settle the issue. If you don't have a website to put the interview on, either make one yourself or send it to me and I'll post it on The Dao of Dragon Ball for you, with your name as the author.

Or simply accept that the film was made (and they may make another). It's out there, it exists, and there are people that love it.

...

I'm not trying to defend them. It's more like trying to understand why there is so much antagonism or hatred for a fan project, and diffusing any misunderstandings or assumptions. If I have the missing knowledge people are looking for, then I feel obligated to share it.

Poor use of the money? Maybe. Senseless fraud? Not at all. It's a simple combination of high ambition with lack of experience and a very critical fan base with even higher expectations. They had video updates showing how they were using the money and their gratitude for the funds. What more do you want? An itemized tax ledger?

Harry said that George was putting the finishing touches on the trailer's special effects up to the very last day, which implies they wanted it to be as good as they knew how to make it. In the opinion of some fans it wasn't good enough, but that doesn't warrant fraud. Plus in my first interview (before the funding) they stated they already had the Mark II camera, so I don't think that was the case. And even if they did buy a second one, that's not fraud either. That's a business expense, which is exactly what the funding was for. Some assets purchased will be soft (crew, locations), and others hard (technology).

In terms of finance, I don't consider $15,000 to be all that much. That amount of money goes fast. Are there talented people who can do more with less? Sure. But how are other people's abilities relevant? Also don't forget they initially asked for much less than they received (only asking for $5,000, and receiving $14, 273). Fans willingly gave them more then they asked for. They weren't greedy for money, were appreciative when they received it, and were hesitant to ask for more when necessary. Again, asking for $3,500 and receiving $7,301.

Fans across the world (including me - $10) donated money, and when you do that, you forfeit all responsibility and accountability for how that money is spent and your expectations should be checked at the door. It's up to those you invested in to use it properly. It's not unlikely the people you trust won't make a mistake or two, or that things won't work out with the crew (as was the case) and they'll go over budget and need to ask for more. It's even possible the project falls apart and produces nothing. If so, none of your money is returned. All things considered, K & K did what they set out to do.

From an objective perspective I find this to be a very fascinating moment in the history of Dragon Ball fandom. Nothing like this had been done before, so it's all very interesting to see how people are reacting.

Derek, I don't know why you continue to overlook the fact that they took advantage of a property that they had no right to in order to not only fund this project but lead to the possibilities to gain profitable income. Their talent and previous work did not provide them with what they needed so they used a brand-name franchise in conjunction illegally. You are overlooking the origins of this project and the usage of copyright-protected material to promote services that K&K were incapable of providing. This was and continues to be senseless fraud, whether you choose to disregard it or not.

As far as discussing this with K&K, when this first started, I politely reached out to them on a plethora of platforms to inform them of their actions being considered fraudulent and what happened? I was given a run-on sentence regarding "fair-use" (non-applicable) and then blocked from further communications.

$20,000+ is a lot of money for a 5-minute short. I don't know how many times you were a Line-Producer on a production but I'm guessing zero. So that's that.


If you want to set up communication between myself and K&K, I would enjoy speaking with them regarding this entire process and specifically their use of DragonBall Z material as a means to promote themselves in a world where that is considered 100% copyright infringement.

[Avenged]

I agree that's too much money, with that we should get a Freeza saga trailer as well, at the very least something much longer than 5 minutes.

Anyways, guess they're releasing a clip of the infamous "It's over 9000!" tomorrow. This might be entertaining.

[funrush]

I agree that's too much money, with that we should get a Freeza saga trailer as well, at the very least something much longer than 5 minutes.

Anyways, guess they're releasing a clip of the infamous "It's over 9000!" tomorrow. This might be entertaining.

Oh, no...

And yes, it certainly will be.

[DerekPadula]

Derek, I don't know why you continue to overlook the fact that they took advantage of a property that they had no right to in order to not only fund this project but lead to the possibilities to gain profitable income. Their talent and previous work did not provide them with what they needed so they used a brand-name franchise in conjunction illegally. You are overlooking the origins of this project and the usage of copyright-protected material to promote services that K&K were incapable of providing. This was and continues to be senseless fraud, whether you choose to disregard it or not.

As far as discussing this with K&K, when this first started, I politely reached out to them on a plethora of platforms to inform them of their actions being considered fraudulent and what happened? I was given a run-on sentence regarding "fair-use" (non-applicable) and then blocked from further communications.

$20,000+ is a lot of money for a 5-minute short. I don't know how many times you were a Line-Producer on a production but I'm guessing zero. So that's that.


If you want to set up communication between myself and K&K, I would enjoy speaking with them regarding this entire process and specifically their use of DragonBall Z material as a means to promote themselves in a world where that is considered 100% copyright infringement.

What you're saying is all logical and sound from one perspective, so I'm not negating or overlooking that, but I think we have different perspectives on their initial intent.

You're presuming their initial intention was self serving, and I'm presuming the opposite based on my conversations with them. I think they simply wanted to make a fan film and needed the support of other fans to do it. The legalities were such an uncertainty in their mind that it didn't prevent them from moving forward. And even when presented with those concerns by you and others, they didn't have the definitive answers (or evidently seek legal council on the matter), so they said, "We don't know how things will work out, but we're going to do it anyway." I think that's a positive attitude to have in the face of uncertainty. And I don't consider what they did fraud. Ignorance? Sure. Son Goku style bullheadedness? Sure. But not intentional self serving fraud.

Sorry to hear that you were blocked from communicating with them. Not sure why.

Okay, if you'd like to me to reach out, then please PM your contact info (including Skype name), and I'll forward it to them along with an explanation.

[Thanos]

I don't think I'm speaking for myself why I say I am not out to hate on this project.

I was quite enthusiastic when the project was first announced, actually. Some of the stills they released really impressed me... but I was only going on the Yamcha featurette, which I thought was actually quite good, and still is, but unfortunately it was out of place in a sea of poor decisions--financially and production-wise.

I think one of my biggest gripes was the fact that it's only five minutes long. I felt that it sent a message to the public that, what lacked in quantity will be made up in quality. Okay, it's only five minutes, but it seems like they're going for a meaty five minutes. With all that money, surely they'd be able to have high production values for a mere five minute production?

But what we ended up getting was... not that. I would expect such quality from a full-length fan film, but for five minutes this is pretty shoddy.

[KaiserNeko]

$15,000 is chump change for film making. No, I'm serious. $15,000 for five minutes? You do know that Evolution was $45,000,000, right? At 100 minutes?

That's $450,000 dollars a minute. That's on average. Remember how meh a lot of that looked?

I'm also dumbfounded to hear anyone say this was better than Evolution. Evolution was a total pile, yes, but the choreography and cinematography here are barely up to par with it at all and the special effects were trash in comparison.

No, I can wholeheartedly believe this was $15,000 worth. They just had lousy direction, lousy actors (to anyone saying, "Well, they're not actors, they're fighters!" I say, DON'T LET THEM ACT THEN. I'm sick of hearing excuses), and no real scope. They needed to make something smaller, more personal; not this over-ambitious trash-heap of a trailer. If you can't make something good, then -don't-.

And before anyone tells me, "But if they don't try, how will they ever succeed?" I wouldn't care if they'd spent their own time and money on it. Then they could definitely say, "Well, it was practice." They asked for OTHER people's money for this. They wanted to make a full, legitimate production... and I think they legitimately failed at that.

[DBZfan29]

All this talk about legality and Kaiser popping up has got me wondering, what has FUNimation said of TeamFourStar? Are you guys doing something legal? I don't mean to stir trouble, I'm simply curious.

[Jord]

Derek, I don't know why you continue to overlook the fact that they took advantage of a property that they had no right to in order to not only fund this project but lead to the possibilities to gain profitable income. Their talent and previous work did not provide them with what they needed so they used a brand-name franchise in conjunction illegally. You are overlooking the origins of this project and the usage of copyright-protected material to promote services that K&K were incapable of providing. This was and continues to be senseless fraud, whether you choose to disregard it or not.

As far as discussing this with K&K, when this first started, I politely reached out to them on a plethora of platforms to inform them of their actions being considered fraudulent and what happened? I was given a run-on sentence regarding "fair-use" (non-applicable) and then blocked from further communications.

$20,000+ is a lot of money for a 5-minute short. I don't know how many times you were a Line-Producer on a production but I'm guessing zero. So that's that.


If you want to set up communication between myself and K&K, I would enjoy speaking with them regarding this entire process and specifically their use of DragonBall Z material as a means to promote themselves in a world where that is considered 100% copyright infringement.

What you're saying is all logical and sound from one perspective, so I'm not negating or overlooking that, but I think we have different perspectives on their initial intent.

You're presuming their initial intention was self serving, and I'm presuming the opposite based on my conversations with them. I think they simply wanted to make a fan film and needed the support of other fans to do it. The legalities were such an uncertainty in their mind that it didn't prevent them from moving forward. And even when presented with those concerns by you and others, they didn't have the definitive answers (or evidently seek legal council on the matter), so they said, "We don't know how things will work out, but we're going to do it anyway." I think that's a positive attitude to have in the face of uncertainty. And I don't consider what they did fraud. Ignorance? Sure. Son Goku style bullheadedness? Sure. But not intentional self serving fraud.

Sorry to hear that you were blocked from communicating with them. Not sure why.

Okay, if you'd like to me to reach out, then please PM your contact info (including Skype name), and I'll forward it to them along with an explanation.

If they're not self serving they certainly don't help their situation by refusing to disclose expenses, revealing they didn't pay any of the actors and blocking/ignoring anyone who asks them about the legality of the project. It really feels like they're hiding something and pafupafu may be on the money here.

From an objective perspective I find this to be a very fascinating moment in the history of Dragon Ball fandom. Nothing like this had been done before, so it's all very interesting to see how people are reacting.

Here's an old live action project that was done much better with no funding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4_vAaXz89E

Wow, nice find. I really like the dashes added during the punches and the teleportations. Looks a whole lot better than the KK trailer. Besides, it has a cameo by Link, lol.

And then we also have this one, lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REUpgEIlZuQ

[Saiga]

Here's an old live action project that was done much better with no funding.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4_vAaXz89E

That was absolutely awful.

[Attitudefan]

This looks really cool. Though, if anything, DBZ does not need a live action adaption but a 'Disney' treatment. A 2 hour long DB movie with an original new story and awesome animation.

Agreed! The old Disney was awesome back in the day. The Animation was top notch as far as the flow of movement and stuff. I'm not trying to bash on anyone that likes or would like a live action movie of Dragonball, but I just don't ever see a masterpiece ever happening. ''In my Opinion'' they should just stop with the live action stuff and focus on a great animated film.

That is the truth. I am afraid it will look like a low budget Kung-Fu movie except they also fly in the air.

Well, I guess I was right back on page one. I also agree with myself that if a fan film is to be done, do it with animation over live-action. I guess I predicted the 2013 special... kind of.

[Ringworm128]

I say, DON'T LET THEM ACT THEN. I'm sick of hearing excuses), and no real scope. They needed to make something smaller, more personal; not this over-ambitious trash-heap of a trailer. If you can't make something good, then -don't-.

So unless something is up to the standards of a feature length movie with a multi million dollar budget it's some kind of crime against humanity? Sorry but I really don't see the logic there.

And before anyone tells me, "But if they don't try, how will they ever succeed?" I wouldn't care if they'd spent their own time and money on it. Then they could definitely say, "Well, it was practice." They asked for OTHER people's money for this. They wanted to make a full, legitimate production... and I think they legitimately failed at that.

Keep in mind that the people who donated did it of their own free will so it's kind of mute point when people go "how dare they use other peoples money!" And last time I checked they never said they were going to make a masterpiece with acting and special effects that would blow peoples minds, no they simply said that they were going to make a trailer that didn't have stuff like Goku in high school and had actors that at least looked somewhat like their anime counterparts. Granted they did say that were going to "deliver" on stuff like the beam struggles and honestly they did, yes they're nothing to go "wow" over but they at least look what they should the Kienzan looks how it should and so does the Kikoho. And the famous beam struggle looks fine despite the budget clearly showing, everything looks how it should. Honestly I think people are to used to stuff like The Avengers and The Dark Knight.

[KaiserNeko]

I say, DON'T LET THEM ACT THEN. I'm sick of hearing excuses), and no real scope. They needed to make something smaller, more personal; not this over-ambitious trash-heap of a trailer. If you can't make something good, then -don't-.

So unless something is up to the standards of a feature length movie with a multi million dollar budget it's some kind of crime against humanity? Sorry but I really don't see the logic there.

That's not what I said. Something that's bad is still bad, even if it doesn't have the money to be better. I will treat it AS SUCH. It's not a "crime", it's nothing terrible, it's just frustrating that people think that just because it had a low budget, it's good. It's not.

And before anyone tells me, "But if they don't try, how will they ever succeed?" I wouldn't care if they'd spent their own time and money on it. Then they could definitely say, "Well, it was practice." They asked for OTHER people's money for this. They wanted to make a full, legitimate production... and I think they legitimately failed at that.

Keep in mind that the people who donated did it of their own free will so it's kind of mute point when people go "how dare they use other peoples money!" And last time I checked they never said they were going to make a masterpiece with acting and special effects that would blow peoples minds, no they simply said that they were going to make a trailer that didn't have stuff like Goku in high school and had actors that at least looked somewhat like their anime counterparts. Granted they did say that were going to "deliver" on stuff like the beam struggles and honestly they did, yes they're nothing to go "wow" over but they at least look what they should the Kienzan looks how it should and so does the Kikoho. And the famous beam struggle looks fine despite the budget clearly showing, everything looks how it should. Honestly I think people are to used to stuff like The Avengers and The Dark Knight.

Missing. My. Point.

My Point: This trailer was bad. There are plenty of reasons it was bad. A lot of them could have been avoided if they'd had better direction. They also asked for money for something that was bad. If they had made something good, I wouldn't complain. If they'd made something bad, but of their own time and money, I wouldn't complain nearly as much. But the truth is: They took money from people, then put out a sloppily directed, boringly edited, poorly planned trailer with inconsistent special effects, awful acting, shoddy design, and just an overall lack of polish.

Kay-oh-ken? A one handed Kikoho... with both hands still intact? No grasp on the tone of the original? Awful acting? Those don't have anything to do with the budget. Those could have been fixed. They weren't.

We don't expect The Avengers. We don't really expect much of anything. I'm just saying, "This was bad. Stop making excuses to make it sound like it's not."

[Ringworm128]

No grasp on the tone of the original?

I think they got the
"tone" down fairly well. The fight with Nappa had a hopeless vibe to it with people dying and such with a lot of intensity with stuff like the fight scene between Tenshinhan and Nappa. They seemed to at least be trying to portray that with the grey sky and other stuff.

[Hellspawn28]

I seen movies look much worst at a lower budget then this. I take it no one here seen any of older films from Troma or films that were on Mystery Science Theater 3000? This movie looks like Avatar compare to those stuff (I happen to enjoy most films from Troma).

[Ringworm128]

We don't expect The Avengers. We don't really expect much of anything. I'm just saying, "This was bad. Stop making excuses to make it sound like it's not."

But it really wasn't THAT bad yes it does have a few problems here and there but it does other things good too, the casting was great, some of the characters looked like they had been taken right from the original especially Yamcha. They did a pretty good job with the costumes as opposed to the other live action fan projects people have posted where they obviously got something from Cosplay R Us. The acting was fairly bad but it did have some ok moments, Nappa seemed seemed somewhat ok and the news reporter and Goku were fairly ok as well. Also the small cut to Chichi was done pretty good IMO, it got the message across of how Chichi would be feeling without going over the top like the original. Once again, it's not perfect but from the way you people are going on about it you would think it was something like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8uIN-tH3SY

[Avenged]

We don't expect The Avengers. We don't really expect much of anything. I'm just saying, "This was bad. Stop making excuses to make it sound like it's not."

But it really wasn't THAT bad yes it does have a few problems here and there but it does other things good too, the casting was great, some of the characters looked like they had been taken right from the original especially Yamcha. They did a pretty good job with the costumes as opposed to the other live action fan projects people have posted where they obviously got something from Cosplay R Us. The acting was fairly bad but it did have some ok moments, Nappa seemed seemed somewhat ok and the news reporter and Goku were fairly ok as well. Also the small cut to Chichi was done pretty good IMO, it got the message across of how Chichi would be feeling without going over the top like the original. Once again, it's not perfect but from the way you people are going on about it you would think it was something like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8uIN-tH3SY

Yeah Yamcha was great, they should have showed more of him.