Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Mjb1985 wrote:Considering that Good Buu is way ahead of Vegeta , and Evil Buu above that, Vegeta has no chance. Perhaps that suicide blast gets the job done though.
Fat Buu was far stronger than Vegeta.
Evil Buu and Mr. (Good) Buu were formed after the evil was dispelled from Fat Buu. From what I remember, we don't have any concrete information on how powerful either of the Buus were, other than Mr. Buu not really doing much better against Kid Buu than Vegeta did.
I have Good Boo being as strong as he was before he got angry and did that huge explosion against Vegeta. You know, getting the crap kicked out of him by Majin Vegeta. And then I have Grey Boo being as strong as the difference between Good and Fat Boo.
I just... though I'd share that for no reason.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
It seemed pretty conclusive to me that Good Buu was greatly superior to Vegeta. Kid Buu used a lot more effort against Good Buu than he did Vegeta and Good Buu was still able to put up a fight. Considering that Vegeta was on the sidelines and watching in awe, it's pretty safe there is a healthy lead there.
I don't think you realize how strong that version of Fat Buu is Saiga.
Fat Buu Power Up 1 was already superior to Majin Vegeta, IE Goku and Vegeta needed to team up to beat him , but they definitely could win if they worked together.
When Vegeta gets there he talks trash to Buu who increases his power even further at this point. So essentially...
Fat Buu Power Up 2 > Fat Buu Power Up1 > Majin Vegeta
Mjb1985 wrote:I don't think you realize how strong that version of Fat Buu is Saiga.
Fat Buu Power Up 1 was already superior to Majin Vegeta, IE Goku and Vegeta needed to team up to beat him , but they definitely could win if they worked together.
When Vegeta gets there he talks trash to Buu who increases his power even further at this point. So essentially...
Fat Buu Power Up 2 > Fat Buu Power Up1 > Majin Vegeta
Eh, doesn't Vegeta kick the shit out of him before that though?
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Mjb1985 wrote:It seemed pretty conclusive to me that Good Buu was greatly superior to Vegeta. Kid Buu used a lot more effort against Good Buu than he did Vegeta and Good Buu was still able to put up a fight. Considering that Vegeta was on the sidelines and watching in awe, it's pretty safe there is a healthy lead there.
Unless I've missed something, it's hardly conclusive that Mr. Buu is significantly stronger than Vegeta. Generally speaking, I see most posters here accepting or agreeing that Mr. Buu is low to mid SSJ2 tier and from memory I don't think Buu put up that much of a better fight than Vegeta did against Kid Buu. He was still getting his ass handed to him 90% of the time and even if he did last somewhat longer it could easily be chalked up to his weird physiology.
Just compare the two fights for yourself. Vegeta does absolutely nothing to a joking Buu. Good Buu is able to manage a hit on a pissed off Buu.
Vegeta is standing in awe as Buu fights Buu, Vegeta can't do anything to Mr. Buu. That's how Mr. Buu got his name, Vegeta had to address him as Sir or Mister or face Buu's wrath. Lol.
The ultimate Dragonball fan face off. The idea came from batistabus suggesting Mike to save people from Dragonball wiki. No battle shall be more epic then this.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Hey, it is my first message here, so hello everyone and greetings from Poland:).
So since few weeks I was reading this topic and I must admit that this is great source for discussion. I was thinking a lot about battles which may be very interesting for you. In fact, most of them could appear in original manga and it is really shame, that Akira didn't create such battles. So let's go:
Kuririn (22 TB - 100% of power) vs Tambourine
First fight, between Kuririn and Tambourine. As we know, young warrior was easily destroyed by the demon. However we must take into the consideration that Kuririn was exausted after tournament. Goku was also defated by Tambourine but when he get some rest, he was easily able to stomp this demon (and as far as I know, Goku power didn't change between these two fights). Furthermore Giran was able to put decent fight against him and he is much weaker than 22 TB Kuririn. So do you think that Kuririn in perfect shape would be able to win, or at least put up a good fight against demon?
Kuririn (Death Zone Movie) vs Sancho (One of Garlic Jr. minions)
Unfortunately we didn't see Kuririn fighting with one of Garlic Jr. offsprings. However as far as I remember, Sancho was easily defated by Piccolo Jr. Do you think that Kuririn would also be able to win?
Kuririn (during battle with Ginyu) vs Vegeta (at the begining of Namek Saga)
Kuririn power level at that moment was from 20 000 to 23 000 and Vegeta was 24 000. So Kuririn was stronger than Kiwi, at at the same level as Dodoria and Zarbon. All three frieza soldiers were easily destroyed by Vegeta (with exception of Zarbon but he transformed so doesn't count). However the difference between Frieza soldiers and Kuririn is the fact, that he was very skilled fighter (for me he is in top 3 after Goku and Vegeta). Furthermore he have very strong techniques as Kakausan-Ha (Scatter shot like beam which destroyed Saibaman. The name was taken from game) and Kienzan. Vegeta on the other hand is very durable and also strong fighter. Who can win in this battle?
Kuririn (during battle with Ginyu) vs Kiwi, Dodoria, Zarbon - without transformation (one after another)
Basically the same as the previous one.
Kuririn (Garlic Jr. Filler) vs Ginyu Force (all at once)
Yep I really love this character and it is really shame that author didn't let him to at least to be equal with Piccolo in term of power, thanks to constant gain of energy through Grand Elder power up. Anyway as far as we know, Kuririn power grew up very fast after the event with Grand Elder. In fact in few days on Namek his power rose from about 2000 to 75 000 and I don't see a reason why I shouldn't belive in it. After Namek Saga, the boost from Grand Elder probably slowed down or even stoped, anyway I think that Kuririn were still training. Now it is the weird part. He was completly overhelmed by Mustard (probably weakest of Garlic minions) but at the same time, he was able to put up a good fight against buffed Garlic Jr who was much stronger than Piccolo (to compare Mustard couldn't be stronger than first form of Freeza at best). So the question is, how much stronger Mustard was than Ginyu. If Mustard power was about 200 000 then I think that Kuririn should be about 150 000. For me? Enough to destroy all of Ginyu Force members at once.
Kuririn (Buu Saga) vs PuiPui
So the most pathetic of all enemies against strongest human. The problem with PuiPui is in fact his power. He should be one of the strongest being in the universe and he was completly destroyed by base Vegeta and he thought that 10x gravity is awesome (and 10x gravity become nothing special at the very begining of DBZ when warriors power level was in low thousands). As far as I know people put PuiPui in any place from 10 000 to even 200 000 000. Personally I am the fan of first proposition (PuiPui for me is at 20 000 at best), so Kuririn should destroy him.
Kuririn (OVA movie) vs Frieza
This is probably the most important question to me. Cause as soon as Tarble stated that Abo and Kado as strong as Frieza. Still Kuririn was eager to fight and he was only one of earthlings who was able to witness Frieza 50% of power. Furthermore Kuririn is not stupid guy and probably he has the best ki sense ability. Still he was pretty sure that he should fight. So is he really as strong as Frieza or stronger?
3 namek villagers and Piccolo vs Nappa
Let's switch Z-Senshi with villagers. Their power was 3000 and Piccolo was 3500 do you think that all of them would stand a chance against such brute like Nappa?
Piccolo vs Yakon
Both of them were nothing against sayans in Buu Saga. The difference is in fact that Piccolo was stronger than any regular SSJ (at level of ASSJ or maybe slightly stronger), while Yakon was only stronger than normal Goku (but much weaker than his SSJ form). However Goku was master of this form, so as a SSJ he has to be strong as hell. So did Piccolo stand a chance against one of Babidi minions?
Piccolo (end of Z) vs Perfect Cell
Piccolo is not the one who gives up his traning. So do you think that during such period of time, he was able to gain enough power to destroy Cell?
Mjb1985 wrote:So you don't take aggression or emotion into account?
Kid Buu joking around with Vegeta and pwning him
Vs
Kid Buu seriously pissed off going after Good Buu and Good Buu managing to get off a hit.
That means nothing to you?
Good Buu constantly regenerates to full power. Vegeta constantly gets weaker.
If Vegeta was always at 100%, you would have a point. But the gap between him and Kid Buu only gets wider.
Umm no... First of all Vegeta is dead he doesnt suffer a Ki decrease while in his SSJ2 form. Furthermore nothing suggest Vegeta's Ki decreases while in that state. Vegeta is fireing a rapid succession of Ki blast at Buu and it doesnt even make him angry. Buu is toying with Vegeta at his full power. On the other hand the fat Majin Buu was able to get in a few hits and managed to annoy Kid Buu. The same can not be said for a SSJ2 Vegeta whom was going all out. The good Majin Buu is mid-high tier SSJ2 level
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
I say Good Boo beats Vegeta still. Good Boo at least put up some fight against Pure Boo, mixed with his durability, and stamina he wins. Vegeta only got 1 attack in which Pure Boo let happen, then never got another shot in.
SSJ Gogeta vs Boohan
add SSJ2 or 3 if unfair.
Potara
First Appearance: chapter 501
Category: miscellaneous
Explanation: Ear decorations worn by Kaioshins and their attendants for generations. Despite being worn so casually, they’re actually an incredible power-up item. The Elder Kaioshin gave them to Goku as a trump card for defeating Majin Buu.
Special Characteristics: To use them, the two people who will merge simply each take one of the two earrings and put in on their left or right ear, respectively. Furthermore, after merging the power is greater than with Fusion. However, the two people will automatically merge as soon as the earrings are put on, and in principle will be unable to ever split up again, so caution is needed when handling them. The merged person will only split up when touched by the air inside Majin Buu’s body. Also, while with Fusion the post-merged clothing is the native dress of the people of Planet Metamor, when merging with the Potara not only are the two people’s bodies mixed together, but their clothing is as well. In addition, pathetically enough the East Kaioshin and his attendant Kibito merged together without knowing a thing about Potara fusion. (Daizenshuu 4, p.163)
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours." Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946
I believe that SSJ2 Gogeta at least would be stronger than Buuhan, but his fusion might run out before he finishes Buu off.
SSJ Gotenks (pre-rosat) vs Evil Buu (the gray, skinny one)
SSJ Goku (Baby Saga) vs Super Buu
SSJ4 Vegeta (Shadow Dragon Saga, blutz waves) vs Golden Oozaru Baby
Vegeta's ki running out and Good Buu regenerating have nothing to do with Good Buu bouncing back from a hit from a PO'd Kid Buu and actually landing a hit. Good Buu's regeneration didn't play a factor in that scene.
