Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[MCDaveG]

No, it's a waste of time.

"I think SSJ3 Goku is eight times stronger than SSJ Gotenks, but Super Buu is twice as strong as SSJ3 Goku!"

"Well *I* think that SSJ Gogeta is stronger than SSJ Vegetto, but if Super Buu absorbed SSJ3 Goku he would be stronger than SSJ Vegetto AND SSJ Gogeta!"

Well, if Train A leaves Philidelphia at 3:30 PM travelling at 88 mph at twice the rate of speed as Train B leaving Chicago at three times the rate of a car travelling from New York City to Boston, how many roads must a man walk down before you can call him a man?

It's worthless speculation. It's fine if you think one character is possibly stronger than another, but using the Power Level numbers? It was proven how worthless ratings like that are in the Freeza arc.

To you, it may be. But multipliers themselves didn't drop off the radar - things like SS2 and SS3 were still given multipliers.

Furthermore, the only reason they were proven worthless is because people can hide their ratings and fool scouters. The actual full power readings are still legit, though. You don't see someone with a lower Battle Power beat a higher Battle Power in sheer strength, do you?

Ah yes, I see you point, but the thing is that official stated ratings ended with Freeza arc and as some transformations were given official multipliers, you can only apply them on old Freeza arc power levels to base it on fact. Otherwise, you can state anything you want and it will be pointless.

But, despite someone said to me that I'm not real anime fan because I don't like Japanese Pop, I'm big fan of Shonen themed series.
And if you like them too, you can safely assume, that Bils is stronger than anyone in Buu arc based on raw power, because that's how villains work in Shonen.
But it's true that Buu is magical being so law of physics and raw power don't apply on him.

[Saiga]

How can one character who's SSJ2 be significantly more powerful than another who's SSJ2? They're both at the same power level, SSJ2. It's merely a battle of technique, of skill, at that point. Goku and Vegeta were tied fighting at that level. Vegeta "won" when he pretended the fight was over and knocked Goku out.

Of course, Goku was capable of going beyond, but that's besides the point. Why should SSJ3 Goku be any stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks? They're both the same: SSJ3.

This power level stuff beyond the Freeza arc is just a load of fancruft nonsense than Toei caved into to sell more guides.

That's not how the levels work at all. Super Saiyan Vegeta was stronger than Super Saiyan Goku in the Android Arc.

Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta and Goku were stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Gohan.

The levels are multipliers of the user's base form.

[MCDaveG]

Yeah, that's true, Buu arc Goku will have no problem with Freeza without going SSJ.
But penguintruth's main argument was that you can't measure their base level.
Dunno about those SSJ tough.

[penguintruth]

SSJ Vegeta was not stronger. SSJ Goku was suffering from a heart virus. They're both the same power level, SSJ.

SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta were simply more together, technique-wise, than SSJ2 Gohan, because he hadn't been stretching that muscle. They had the same level of power, but Gohan was just rusty.

This nonsense about multipliers has to stop.

[Saiga]

SSJ Vegeta was not stronger. SSJ Goku was suffering from a heart virus. They're both the same power level, SSJ.

SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta were simply more together, technique-wise, than SSJ2 Gohan, because he hadn't been stretching that muscle.

This nonsense about multipliers has to stop.

He was. Piccolo knows Goku's true Super Saiyan power, and he's the one who recognises Vegeta's strength. There's also the blatant fact that Goku got much stronger in his Super Saiyan form after the RoSaT training.

Goku and Vegeta are stated to be stronger than Gohan from the Cell Games - it's not just Gohan's rustiness.

Furthermore, by your logic, kid Goku from the start of the series is as strong as Goku on Namek. They're both in the same level, after all: base level.

And there's no way Super Saiyan Goku fighting Freeza on Namek is as powerful as Super Saiyan Vegetto - what would be the point of fusion?

The "nonsense" about multipliers isn't nonsense at all - it's given in the SEG. Plus, you know, Kaio-ken.

[MCDaveG]

SSJ Vegeta was not stronger. SSJ Goku was suffering from a heart virus. They're both the same power level, SSJ.

SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta were simply more together, technique-wise, than SSJ2 Gohan, because he hadn't been stretching that muscle. They had the same level of power, but Gohan was just rusty.

This nonsense about multipliers has to stop.

That kinda makes sense.... that what more skills and experience they get, the more they are powerfull.
But..... damn I hate in-universe discussions..... by that logic also, the more they are strong normally, the more useless the transformations are.

These discussions are always more confusing than blueprint of Gundam.

[Chuquita]

Kuririn: “The Earth is doomed!”
Piccolo: “No, the entire galaxy will cease to be.”

I wonder if Virus is actually going to rip reality apart or if the above is just a general statement. I'd kind of like to see the former; I really want to see just how wild his special powers can get.

[penguintruth]

And there's no way Super Saiyan Goku fighting Freeza on Namek is as powerful as Super Saiyan Vegetto - what would be the point of fusion?

Hm, good point. Well, I guess with fusion it does work a little differently, but my main point stands.

Power level debates are stupid.

As for Base Goku in the beginning of DB and Base Goku on Namek, base power works differently than SSJ.

[MCDaveG]

Kuririn: “The Earth is doomed!”
Piccolo: “No, the entire galaxy will cease to be.”

I wonder if Virus is actually going to rip reality apart or if the above is just a general statement. I'd kind of like to see the former; I really want to see just how wild his special powers can get.

Well, my idea of this god was kind of, what he touches with his special power, it ceases to exist.....
But that will make the film uninteresting (insert Toninjinka with vanishing power instead of making you carrot), so I really am curious about this villain.

[Saiga]

And there's no way Super Saiyan Goku fighting Freeza on Namek is as powerful as Super Saiyan Vegetto - what would be the point of fusion?

Hm, good point. Well, I guess with fusion it does work a little differently, but my main point stands.

Power level debates are stupid.

As for Base Goku in the beginning of DB and Base Goku on Namek, base power works differently than SSJ.

Why is Super Saiyan so special as to work counter-intuitively to logic (and the guides)?

Plus, you know, Goku's RoSaT training.

[Cold Skin]

Can we listen to the new Cha-La Head-Cha-La yet?
I mean, I see comments here about the new version, so it would make me think we can already listen to it, but then...
I can't find it at all on Youtube despite searching for ALL videos about Cha-La Head-Cha-La for the last 24 hours.

How did you actually heard what it's like?

Kei17 recorded a small sample and threw it up on YouTube. You'll have to look a few pages back.

Sorry, but that video is now private for some reason.

Thanks for the answer. It's okay, they'll start showcasing the song to promote the movie soon enough.

I'm kind of thinking that Goku's Kamehameha from the trailer is probably the final strike, or close to it. Just a feeling I'm getting.

Then there would probably be some twist to it, a new way to use it.

For the many comments about Gogeta, I don't think Gogeta can possibly be here.
Since this movie is meant to be canon with the manga / series and movie 12 can't fit with those, then Goku would have to teach the dance to Vegeta this time again, which I don't think they have time for - and this would create a certain kind of incoherence between the movies that Toei would want to avoid: having movie VS TV show incoherence is fine, but having a movie cancelling a previous movie's events to re-use its scenario differently would be unlikely.

They will probably find something that's at least "half-new" for the finishing blow.
However, I don't know if Goku will actually "kill" the bad guys here, since it's stated they are both needed.
Convincing them that the Earth has warriors worth leaving it intact is more likely.
It is possible that proving their determination - partially through their obvious team work - will actually be what saves the day rather than pure strength.

[penguintruth]

Man, screw the guides. The guides are cash-grabs. They always have been. Just filler material to make a quick buck. They're as official as any fanfiction. If you think Toriyama thought once about power levels after Freeza, you're naive. He was making stuff up as he went along.

[MCDaveG]

Well, it will be interesting to see some Kamehameha ala the Shukan Ido one against Cell.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

In the scene with the exploding hourglasses, there's something on the floating rock in the middle of the screen. Can anyone make out what it is?

On a different note, if creation and destruction are both needed to maintain balance in this world and Birusu is 'God of Destruction', I wonder if killing him will "upset the balance of the universe" meaning there may be some complications that prevent Goku from winning the usual way (unless I'm confusing things here).

By the way, I freakin' love the design of the tree. The way the city is built into the side of the trunk is awesome and I can't wait to see what part it will have in the movie. I really think this movie will have a fairly deep plot by Dragon Ball standards

[Saiga]

Man, screw the guides. The guides are cash-grabs. They always have been. Just filler material to make a quick buck. They're as official as any fanfiction. If you think Toriyama thought once about power levels after Freeza, you're naive. He was making stuff up as he went along.

Except that still doesn't address the fact that Toriyama openly said he originally envisioned Super Saiyan as a 10x boost, but it ended up being 50x.

Plus, as I keep mentioning, Goku post-RoSaT.

[Chuquita]

In the scene with the exploding hourglasses, there's something on the floating rock in the middle of the screen. Can anyone make out what it is?

On a different note, if creation and destruction are both needed to maintain balance in this world and Birusu is 'God of Destruction', I wonder if killing him will "upset the balance of the universe" meaning there may be some complications that prevent Goku from winning the usual way (unless I'm confusing things here).

By the way, I freakin' love the design of the tree. The way the city is built into the side of the trunk is awesome and I can't wait to see what part it will have in the movie. I really think this movie will have a fairly deep plot by Dragon Ball standards

I've been trying to figure out what's on that floating rock ever since I first saw it. Even at 720 I can't make it out. (Two umbrellas from behind and a building/sky-van like the one from the 08 special?)

I was thinking that too; they might actually need to seal him back up or put him back into his deep sleep instead of destroying him.

The tree-city looks amazing; I really hope to see close-up shots of it.

Kuririn: “The Earth is doomed!”
Piccolo: “No, the entire galaxy will cease to be.”

I wonder if Virus is actually going to rip reality apart or if the above is just a general statement. I'd kind of like to see the former; I really want to see just how wild his special powers can get.

Well, my idea of this god was kind of, what he touches with his special power, it ceases to exist.....
But that will make the film uninteresting (insert Toninjinka with vanishing power instead of making you carrot), so I really am curious about this villain.

True, if he could make anything cease to exist that easily, there'd be no way to stop him.
The only things I really have to go on with Virus' possible powers are the above quote by Piccolo and Kuririn, that scene of him turning that egg into sand, and the advertisement quote about how he can "violate the common sense of Z". It all makes me think reality-warping powers, but to what extent? Also someone mentioned earlier (this thread moves so fast I don't know how far back it was) about Virus having some time-powers too, what with the giant hourglasses and the possibly-childified Pilaf Gang.

I feel like I don't have enough information yet to go on. Jump Festa's only about a week away though, so maybe some new information will be released through the movie's panel.

[penguintruth]

Goku post-RoSaT.

He's not significantly more powerful, he's just in more control of the form, expends less energy using it. Unless he powers up to USSJ, which makes him more powerful, but slow.

How the hell did I get sucked into a power level debate? I've become what I hate.

CAREFUL YE WHO HUNT MONSTERS...

[Saiga]

Goku post-RoSaT.

He's not significantly more powerful, he's just in more control of the form, expends less energy using it. Unless he powers up to USSJ, which makes him more powerful, but slow.

How the hell did I get sucked into a power level debate? I've become what I hate.

CAREFUL YE WHO HUNT MONSTERS...

Then why does half his Super Saiyan power amaze everyone when they don't even know it's only half?

[penguintruth]

Then why does half his Super Saiyan power amaze everyone when they don't even know it's only half?

Most of them never experienced SSJ Goku giving his all. When was he giving his all? He clearly outclassed Freeza (wasn't even that tired after that fight) and it was impossible to tell during the fight with 19 because he had the heart virus. He never really pushed himself in that form, probably because he couldn't control it as well until after the RoSaT.

[Saiga]

Then why does half his Super Saiyan power amaze everyone when they don't even know it's only half?

Most of them never experienced SSJ Goku giving his all. When was he giving his all? He clearly outclassed Freeza (wasn't even that tired after that fight) and it was impossible to tell during the fight with 19 because he had the heart virus. He never really pushed himself in that form, probably because he couldn't control it as well until after the RoSaT.

Doesn't make sense. This is half his power, and they would think it's his full power. This is after they've seen Grade II Vegeta and Grade III Trunks. For him to be putting off less than half their power would be nothing of note to the people up on the lookout.