Do you think replacing Kai's BGM was the right thing to do?

[Fizzer]

I don't have anything else to compare this scandal to, so I don't really know how it works and I'd just like to see what people think. Was ditching all of Yamamato's music just in case it was plagiarised too much? Should they have just used it regardless? Or do you think they really had to do it? Do you really not care about the details, and just want your Yamamoto/Kikuchi BGM, or do you feel strongly that Yamamoto did something wrong and his music needed to be discarded? Maybe you don't feel he even did anything wrong, and see it as him giving nods to things he likes or just drawing inspiration.

I think that personally, I take the selfish "I just want my show to be as good as possible" viewpoint, but I don't know much about it, so I'd like to see what others say.

[Gonstead]

In terms of a legal aspect (And to avoid any possible future lawsuits), It was the right thing.

For me as a fan? I really, REALLY wish the score had stayed intact at least in the English releases.

[dbboxkaifan]

No, but at least Toei Animation could've used appropriate music for the series. Takaki's Ultimate Blast 30min animated music tracks for Kai would definitely have fit.

[jpdbzrulz4sure]

Phew... I was afraid this would be another dub score justification thread.

Anyway, from a legal standpoint, like Gonstead said, it probably was the right thing to do.

Toei may have received a copyright claim from whoever owns the rights to one or more of the plagiarized pieces, and with their budget for Kai almost, if not completely, gone, they didn't want/couldn't afford to deal with lawsuits related to it in any way.

Then again, I really like Kai's score, and really wish that nothing was left out on the OSTs that got released.

[Fizzer]

Phew... I was afraid this would be another dub score justification thread.

I changed the topic title, I realise that's how it looked.

How would it have turned out if they'd mixed un-plagiarised Yamamoto with Kikuchi? I'm no music expert, so I don't know if mixing composers like that causes problems.

[Gonstead]

How would it have turned out if they'd mixed un-plagiarised Yamamoto with Kikuchi? I'm no music expert, so I don't know if mixing composers like that causes problems.

It would have most likely been a mess of confliction between the old and the new.

I'll admit, there are some genuinely GOOD music placements for some episodes with Kikuchi but as a whole I'd prefer Yamamoto to keep the fresh aspect of Kai that was introduced.

[Thanos]

The problem with plagiarized material is that once the offender's hands are dirty, you can't really trust them, other than their word, to create new material from then on. Not to mention, who's to say whether any of the other tracks left after the smoke clears aren't plagiarized ones themselves that just haven't been discovered yet?

[Cold Skin]

As far as replacing the score for the last two episodes airing, I think it was a bit hasty, they should have said "okay, calm down, we have two episodes remaining, so putting your complaints and threats on hold for two weeks isn't too much to ask, so we'll air the episodes as intended, and AFTERWARDS we'll see what we can do for you to stop whining".

As far as replacing the score for the disc releases and international broadcast, I guess it was the most "emergency-like" measure they had to take, but it should have been temporary, they should have bothered to check out which tracks were accused of plagiarism and remove only those tracks, keeping it all Yamamoto Kai score (replacing problematic tracks with non-problematic tracks from the same score).
However, I understand how this would have been too much work and efforts for a product that had essentially reached its end as far as Japan was concerned, they weren't going to bother to replace the score for the emergency situation and then replace it yet again after having carefully checked tracks one by one.
As far as they were concern, they were done with it and just made the strictly necessary arrangements to avoid problems with as little additionnal efforts as possible spent on it, which was - unfortunately - probably the best solution.

[VegettoEX]

How exactly do you check to see which of the numerous tracks were truly infringing, though? Would Yamamoto cough up the necessary information? Would he even remember, himself?

That's the whole thing -- he couldn't be trusted, nor could any of the music he'd ever composed for the franchise.

Baby tossed out with the bath water. Easy to say you'd have done otherwise when you're not at the receiving end of potential legal threats.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I think Kai just needs a new score in general. I like Kikuchi but He blongs to Z not Kai. Yamamoto is also awesome but to avoid future lawsuites its probably best his score was taken out.

[MCDaveG]

Well, it's pitty that last two episodes ended with the old score and then they abruptely started to pull off the older releases back and replacing the score with old one in all releases.
The new score and cut editions were the only reason I watched it and when that legal trouble went on + cuting it after the Cell saga, I lost interest in it completely.

[Cold Skin]

How exactly do you check to see which of the numerous tracks were truly infringing, though? Would Yamamoto cough up the necessary information? Would he even remember, himself?

That's the whole thing -- he couldn't be trusted, nor could any of the music he'd ever composed for the franchise.

Baby tossed out with the bath water. Easy to say you'd have done otherwise when you're not at the receiving end of potential legal threats.

I don't know how it all works legally, but wouldn't it be possible for them to just... ask the complainers what exactly they complain about?
"Okay, what exactly are the tracks you think our composer has stolen? What are the problematic tracks that bother you?", citing the episode, the moment, the airing date, anything they used to be aware of the problem in the first place... Then you eliminate the object of the complaint specified by the complainers, and you resume.
Wouldn't it work?

I'll admit I don't know about the way industries work at all, so I'm not in any position to judge their choice, I can just say how I feel about it from my non-expert, "regular Joe" point of view.
But it really feels like a Church was built, and some institution went to complain about the fact that two or three stained glass windows were copied on some other churches, and the response to that was: "No, wait, please don't punish us, we'll crash the whole Church with a bulldozer, that way we'll be sure the problem's solved, okay? Please, just spare us!"
Sure, it kinda works, but wouldn't it have been a less extreme solution to say first: "why don't you tell us exactly what stained glass windows are infringement copies and we'll have those little details replaced?"
It would kinda reduce the overall damage AND save them some time and efforts (replacing a few tracks instead of having to replace all of them).

But maybe the accusing party was not willing to tell which tracks were a problem, it wouldn't surprise me if they just went: "there are some stolen tracks there, but we don't have time to waste telling you more than that, just do something about it!" without further clues... I guess business is business and can be ruthless sometimes.
But then, I don't understand: doesn''t that mean that anybody can come up at any time, state "some of those tracks were stolen!" and have a whole score replaced without proof, by sheer intimidation?
Either they have proofs to give and you know exactly what to replace, or they don't have proof and why would you replace anything if someone just claims something without evidence?
Maybe they just let themselves be intimidated by the accusations after all, if you don't have ressources to go to court, it's possible you want to avoid any chances and will choose to believe anyone intimidating you... It can be the best thing to do sometimes if you don't feel you got game, and it's not the kind of thing we could blame them for in that case. And going to court, putting yourself at risk, losing some money, for a series that was done airing in two episodes and didn't sell that well on discs might not have been the smartest move.

[VegettoEX]

It's not like it was a single party (potentially) complaining. We've identified several tracks that were likely offenders, and they all came from different sources. There's no single entity called "HOLLYWOOD" that Toei could walk up to and ask, "Hey, which tracks do you think are yours?"

From what we've detailed and theorized for years upon years, Yamamoto's influences and lack-of-citations span decades and countries.

Again: Baby. Bathwater. Tossed. Greater good.

[penguintruth]

Was it right? Yes.

Was it annoying? Yes, indeed.

Yamamoto did it to himself, really. But damn did I like some of those tracks, plagarism or no.