The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Mjb1985]

Piccolo thought Gotenks's power was incredible.

[Saiga]

Piccolo thought Gotenks's power was incredible.

That's still not enough to but him on Boo's level. The guy freaked out over Kaioshin after all.

[dbzfan7]

Goten and Trunks were not far weaker then Gohan. Going by the guide book of gotenks being many 10's of times stronger then Goten or Trunks, we get Gotenks at least being 40x (possible higher multiplier) then Goten(since Trunks has to lower his power a bit). I guess the whole debate depends on where you rank Goten and Trunks to the adults.

[Saiga]

Goten and Trunks were not far weaker then Gohan. Going by the guide book of gotenks being many 10's of times stronger then Goten or Trunks, we get Gotenks at least being 40x (possible higher multiplier) then Goten(since Trunks has to lower his power a bit). I guess the whole debate depends on where you rank Goten and Trunks to the adults.

At least 40x? Definitely not.

[dbzfan7]

Goten and Trunks were not far weaker then Gohan. Going by the guide book of gotenks being many 10's of times stronger then Goten or Trunks, we get Gotenks at least being 40x (possible higher multiplier) then Goten(since Trunks has to lower his power a bit). I guess the whole debate depends on where you rank Goten and Trunks to the adults.

At least 40x? Definitely not.

The description says many 10's of times stronger then Goten and Trunks. Many ain't 1,2, or 3. Many means more than double, triple, and quadruple, In some cases more then a dozen.

[Saiga]

Goten and Trunks were not far weaker then Gohan. Going by the guide book of gotenks being many 10's of times stronger then Goten or Trunks, we get Gotenks at least being 40x (possible higher multiplier) then Goten(since Trunks has to lower his power a bit). I guess the whole debate depends on where you rank Goten and Trunks to the adults.

At least 40x? Definitely not.

The description says many 10's of times stronger then Goten and Trunks. Many ain't 1,2, or 3.

Three easily could be depending on someone's own view, and it doesn't have to be a round number either.

But my point was more that nobody has to accept that description if they disagree.

[dbzfan7]

Three easily could be depending on someone's own view, and it doesn't have to be a round number either.

But my point was more that nobody has to accept that description if they disagree.

True, but I believe the description since it makes fusion sound as powerful as Goku describes it. He makes a huge deal out of it.

I think 3 is a little small for being declared many. Many to me means at least more then 7 bare minimum. Though everyone has a different definition of many.

[Saiga]

Three easily could be depending on someone's own view, and it doesn't have to be a round number either.

But my point was more that nobody has to accept that description if they disagree.

True, but I believe the description since it makes fusion sound as powerful as Goku describes it. He makes a huge deal out of it.

I think 3 is a little small for being declared many. Many to me means at least more then 7 bare minimum. Though everyone has a different definition of many.

The reason I don't accept it is I feel that it just states that without really thinking about how powerful it is. Just seems like hype to me.

[dbzfan7]

Three easily could be depending on someone's own view, and it doesn't have to be a round number either.

But my point was more that nobody has to accept that description if they disagree.

True, but I believe the description since it makes fusion sound as powerful as Goku describes it. He makes a huge deal out of it.

I think 3 is a little small for being declared many. Many to me means at least more then 7 bare minimum. Though everyone has a different definition of many.

The reason I don't accept it is I feel that it just states that without really thinking about how powerful it is. Just seems like hype to me.

Yeah your right about it being a hype, but I still feel Goku wasn't lying about how powerful fusion was and mixed with the official guides saying Gotenks is many 10's of times stronger is where I get my interpretation on the matter.

[Saiga]

Yeah your right about it being a hype, but I still feel Goku wasn't lying about how powerful fusion was and mixed with the official guides saying Gotenks is many 10's of times stronger is where I get my interpretation on the matter.

Yeah, fair enough.

[dbzfan7]

Yeah your right about it being a hype, but I still feel Goku wasn't lying about how powerful fusion was and mixed with the official guides saying Gotenks is many 10's of times stronger is where I get my interpretation on the matter.

Yeah, fair enough.

I trust most words of the guidebooks, but yeah they can be wrong sometimes or weird.

[In Brightest Day]

Secondly, Piccolo thought base Gotenks might stand a chance against Evil Boo so he's a terrible judge.

I don't remember the scene, but I highly doubt it's as simple as that. Could you post a scan or something? I think we can assume he meant "wow, he's so powerful in this form, think about how strong he'll be when he transforms" or something along the lines of that logic.

[Fox666]

That's is not the case since Piccolo tought he couldn't transform after the fusaion.

[dbzfan7]

Secondly, Piccolo thought base Gotenks might stand a chance against Evil Boo so he's a terrible judge.

I don't remember the scene, but I highly doubt it's as simple as that. Could you post a scan or something? I think we can assume he meant "wow, he's so powerful in this form, think about how strong he'll be when he transforms" or something along the lines of that logic.

Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P11.5
Context: seeing Gotenks after he’d trained in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “He-he really is different…! He really has greatly powered up…! Th-this just might…!”

Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P12.4-7
Context: Gotenks attacks Boo, to little effect
Boo: “May I attack now?”
Gotenks: “…Wa-wait a little bit…*thinking* …Tha-that’s strange…That should have effected him a decent amount, but…Hahha~~an! He’s just pretending it didn’t hurt him…”
Piccolo: “…Th-this may be hopeless…”

But for the other side.

Chapter: 487 (DBZ 293), P13.5
Context: as Piccolo plans on having Goten and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “Can’t you tell…?! As they are now, even if they perform Fusion they can’t win, no doubt about it…! Tell them that if they don’t want to die while they’re still just little brats, then they should train as much as they can…!”

Piccolo believes things have changed and tells Krillin to take the boys to the Room of Spirit and Time. Makes you think why they didn't just bring the boys there sooner, perhaps because they didn't need to and could theoretically get strong enough/ are already strong enough to beat Boo as an SSJ without the rooms help.

[FNF]

Piccolo says that Gotenks would DEFINITELY fight Boo the next day after they fused in their regular forms. Considering this and Piccolo's response to SSjin Gotenks (not stopping him from fighting Boo until he only had a minute of fusion time left), I think it's blatantly obvious that Gotenks is stronger than Fat Boo never mind Pure Evil Boo pre RoSaT. There is a plethora of statements made to support it.
I get how people like to minimalise Gotenks' power (hell I do it post RoSaT) but it's illogical as hell to put Gotenks(pre RoSaT) below the likes of Vegeta and even Fat Boo for no better reason...

[Mjb1985]

I agree FNF. I just don't see a way for Goku to have dropped the ball that bad. It just doesn't make sense. When all of the characters are pushing a point, you don't need a 100% Gotenks is indeed superior to Goku statement. At least not in my book.

When you look at certain aspects, it happens many times.

Consider Gyu-mao's placement among the Dragonballs Saga characters. We have about 3 or 4 statements of Oolong wanting nothing to do with Gyu-mao no matter how strong Goku is, even Goku admits he looks strong and Gyu-mao has no problem threatening Goku . Sometimes the hint is just so strongly applied I wouldn't be able to go away from those hints.

Same thing with the Present > Future Androids. We never got 100% clarification, but it's just mentioned so often you have to think it's the author presenting a point meant to be taken seriously. Not everyone sees it that way but that's how I view it.

[Saiga]

Anything Piccolo says means shit, he thought base Gotenks might beat Evil Boo.

[Mjb1985]

Well Super Buu probably wasn't giving off his total ki signature . I would think Piccolo was able to pick up on a rough estimation of it , but clearly wasn't all that accurate. Buu's ki being like a lie makes sense here as well. And just because one's mentality on how they fare against an opponent is wrong, doesn't necessarily mean it would change the relation between Base Post vs Ssj Pre.

Piccolo can be wrong about Super Buu , but right about Base Post in relation to Ssj Pre in my book. I don't see how one effects the other.

[dbzfan7]

I agree FNF. I just don't see a way for Goku to have dropped the ball that bad. It just doesn't make sense.

That's one of the reasons why I think SSJ Gotenks>Fat Boo. I don't see Goku doing that. Seems that would be really unlike him. I also consider the fact they never suggested on the rosat until after Evil Boo was formed.

[Fox666]

Piccolo says that Gotenks would DEFINITELY fight Boo the next day after they fused in their regular forms.

Maybe he was worried about the safety of Earth?

Considering this and Piccolo's response to SSjin Gotenks (not stopping him from fighting Boo until he only had a minute of fusion time left)

There have been just a few panels showing Gotenks before Boo split, you can't really say Piccolo or anyone else was under the obligation of saying anything so the reader would know better.

And that's exactly the problem, Piccolo and the others didn't said anything about how Gotenks to Boo. Let alone using what they did not said as evidence of anything.

That's one of the reasons why I think SSJ Gotenks>Fat Boo. I don't see Goku doing that. Seems that would be really unlike him. I also consider the fact they never suggested on the rosat until after Evil Boo was formed.

To be fair, in the manga Gotenks barely transformed in Super Saiyan for the first time, and Boo turned evil.