Goten's rage

SSJ5 Piccohan · Post by **SSJ5 Piccohan** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:48 pm

As most people say it the only way to become a true SSJ is to have rage but, when goten shows goku that he can turn SSJ he doesn't seem that angry. So how did he turn SSJ if it is all about rage.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:51 pm

First achieving the SSJ levels is about anger manipulation (though the daizenshuu adds that this occurs only if you've surpassed typical Saiyan levels of strength). All the SSJs, once they've mastered super saiyan, can turn it on and off like switch, as Goten does in the scene you're thinking of.

SSJ5 Piccohan · Post by **SSJ5 Piccohan** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:54 pm

Yea, that is true but, i still can't see where he got that anger from(probably from chi-chi's side of the family lol)

Saiya-jin · Post by **Saiya-jin** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:03 pm

I guess Goten and Trunks' Super Saiyan origin will remain a mystery.Unless( Very Unlikely, but God, I hope so) Toei releases a movie to show how it happens.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:19 pm

Saiya-jin wrote:I guess Goten and Trunks' Super Saiyan origin will remain a mystery.Unless( Very Unlikely, but God, I hope so) Toei releases a movie to show how it happens.

Plus it's shock value and they're comedy stock characters... My friends and I always joke that for their first time going SSJ was simply hissy-fit related.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:43 pm

Genes, people, genes.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:18 pm

Goten and Trunks inherited it from their fathers - rage (probably) had nothing to do with their cases.

Yes, I know the "inherited traits" theory was proved wrong in real life, but Dragonball is not real life.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:31 pm

Duo wrote:Goten and Trunks inherited it from their fathers - rage (probably) had nothing to do with their cases.

Yes, I know the "inherited traits" theory was proved wrong in real life, but Dragonball is not real life.

Agreed. Obviously power is part of what is passed along. That's seen by just how powerful Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Pan are as kids. Goku is a bit of an oddity in the reguard, but it applies to all the other children we see.

Chaos Saiyajin · Post by **Chaos Saiyajin** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:21 pm

I think that Goten really didn't need all that power and rage to become an SSJ, because at the time of his conception; Goku had become and SSJ, and since Goten seems to be more like Goku than Chi-Chi, it just came natural to Goten.

t-bone135 · Post by **t-bone135** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:34 pm

I suppose that could be. But didn't it say that he became an SSJ while training with Chi-Chi. Something like she pushed him way to hard and then he got angry and then POW! Maybe it was anime only, but I thought I remember something like that. Where Gohan asked him how did that and then he told him about that story in a flashback.

Chi-Chi ran off saying, "Not another freak!"

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:18 pm

I sort of remember that flashback. And from what I remember all he did was just transform. I mean, he did it while in flight, for an attack. Not like the other first time SSJ transformations. Even if that was the first time he did it (which I don't think it was, if I'm remembering right) there wasn't a 'trigger' like with the others. He just 'flipped the switch'.

Vaeran · Post by **Vaeran** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:45 pm

Nonsense, Goku has nothing to do with it. Goten gets all the reserves of pure rage he needs from Chi-Chi's genes.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:41 am

Vaeran wrote:Nonsense, Goku has nothing to do with it. Goten gets all the reserves of pure rage he needs from Chi-Chi's genes.

I have suddenly changed my opinion and fully agree with you.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:56 am

Duo wrote:
Vaeran wrote:Nonsense, Goku has nothing to do with it. Goten gets all the reserves of pure rage he needs from Chi-Chi's genes.
I have suddenly changed my opinion and fully agree with you.

You know, Vaeran, you might actually have a point there.... But... if that's the case... why's he only an SSJ and not an SSJ5billion?

Gotens_Girl · Post by **Gotens_Girl** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:01 am

I tend to think his first transformation probably did have some emotion involved. But it was probably just that little kid frustration when they're losing at a game or something. I mean, Goten never seems that full of rage, but he gets plenty annoyed when Trunks bests him.

For that matter, Trunks' first time was probably something to do with being angry that he couldn't show off for Goten.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:26 am

Gotens_Girl wrote:I tend to think his first transformation probably did have some emotion involved. But it was probably just that little kid frustration when they're losing at a game or something. I mean, Goten never seems that full of rage, but he gets plenty annoyed when Trunks bests him.

For that matter, Trunks' first time was probably something to do with being angry that he couldn't show off for Goten.

Like I said: hissy-fit related.

Goten: "Whaaaa! Everybody can fly but me! It's not fair!" **Goes Super Saiyan** "Yay!"
Trunks: "What? You can go Super Saiyan?! Now everybody can go Super Saiyan but me! It's not fair! Raaaargh!!!" **Goes Super Saiyan**

Come on. You know it's true.

Bejiita · Post by **Bejiita** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:06 pm

Goten did not turn SSJ for the first time when fighting ChiChi. In the original Gohan asks Goten simply if Mum knew he could transform, and it just goes back to the flash back and Chi Chi starts crying after saying Goten's turned into a punk.

Obviously it took anger for all the other to transform, but yes, aftre it's as easy as turning a switch.

Reason, well, maybe it shows that working together to achieve something pays off, everyone who ever turned SSJ had to work for it on their own, Goku, well, it just happened through real rage, Vegeta decided to take it upon himself to gain SSJ power. You can say Gohan didn't do it alone as he was training with Goku but he was doing it alone if you get me, since he was the only kid, Goku already knew how to transform and Gohan had to do it himself.

Goten and Trunks becoming one is said to be a bargain sale by Vegeta, naturally if one done it the other had to, seeing as their powers were near equal they could spar to their limits, Turnks probably got there first though. But Goten not long after.

Isn't it also said that the blood of Saiya-jin mixed with human makes the power easier to tap into? Goahn could have got there earlier but he was a shook one, always scared of something.

Just a thought, could Trunks and Goten's secret power had been achieved by Trunks sneaking Goten in the gravity room to train secretively, Trunks is mischievious and Goten follows as seen in the Tenkaichi Budokai with that Mighty Mask. Trunks is the ring leader of trouble, and the one to take dares...imagine...

Trunks: Come on Goten, let's go and train in the gravity room my Dad trains in!
Goten: Uh, but we could get in trouble by your Dad! Plus it's dangerous...
T: Don't be a chicken, I dare you..*Trunks takes off, Goten follows.

Easy as that.

I want to add again, that that gravity chamber is like a golden treasure for Sayia-Jin, plus with Dende's healing powers(which are better than Senzu) they can infinitely power up, well untill their bodies cannot withstand anymore that is. For Trunks to be trained under 150G when not even SSJ, it makes Goku training at 100G in the specship look like nothing. These kids could have had the potential to exceed everyone if they kep up their training, I at least wish they reached SSJ2, even if it was while doinf fusion, Goku could have just told them that it wouldn't have been enough to beat Buu anyway, but it would have been nice to witness it.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:16 pm

Bejiita wrote:Goten did not turn SSJ for the first time when fighting ChiChi. In the original Gohan asks Goten simply if Mum knew he could transform, and it just goes back to the flash back and Chi Chi starts crying after saying Goten's turned into a punk.

Obviously it took anger for all the other to transform, but yes, aftre it's as easy as turning a switch.

Reason, well, maybe it shows that working together to achieve something pays off, everyone who ever turned SSJ had to work for it on their own, Goku, well, it just happened through real rage, Vegeta decided to take it upon himself to gain SSJ power. You can say Gohan didn't do it alone as he was training with Goku but he was doing it alone if you get me, since he was the only kid, Goku already knew how to transform and Gohan had to do it himself.

Goten and Trunks becoming one is said to be a bargain sale by Vegeta, naturally if one done it the other had to, seeing as their powers were near equal they could spar to their limits, Turnks probably got there first though. But Goten not long after.

Isn't it also said that the blood of Saiya-jin mixed with human makes the power easier to tap into? Goahn could have got there earlier but he was a shook one, always scared of something.

Just a thought, could Trunks and Goten's secret power had been achieved by Trunks sneaking Goten in the gravity room to train secretively, Trunks is mischievious and Goten follows as seen in the Tenkaichi Budokai with that Mighty Mask. Trunks is the ring leader of trouble, and the one to take dares...imagine...

Trunks: Come on Goten, let's go and train in the gravity room my Dad trains in!
Goten: Uh, but we could get in trouble by your Dad! Plus it's dangerous...
T: Don't be a chicken, I dare you..*Trunks takes off, Goten follows.

Easy as that.

I want to add again, that that gravity chamber is like a golden treasure for Sayia-Jin, plus with Dende's healing powers(which are better than Senzu) they can infinitely power up, well untill their bodies cannot withstand anymore that is. For Trunks to be trained under 150G when not even SSJ, it makes Goku training at 100G in the specship look like nothing. These kids could have had the potential to exceed everyone if they kep up their training, I at least wish they reached SSJ2, even if it was while doinf fusion, Goku could have just told them that it wouldn't have been enough to beat Buu anyway, but it would have been nice to witness it.

A lot of interesting thoughts...I also wish we could have seen more from Goten and Trunks development as warriors.

the_abberration · Post by **the_abberration** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:25 pm

Just trying to wrap my arms around this.

Goku turned after seeing his childhood friend and rival killed at the hands of a monster who outmatched him in strength (Anger + Despair = SSJ).

Vegita turned after knowing Goku surpassed him in power and ability (Anger + Despair = SSJ).

Gohan turned after feeling as if he was failing everyone who needed him (Anger + Despair = SSJ).

Goten having Chi Chi for a mom (Anger + Despair = SSJ)

Trunks having Vegita + Bulma for a dad x Mr. and Mrs. Briefs for grandparents (Anger + Despair = SSJ)

EDIT: I think that from a storytelling perspective, it might have been implied that Goten and Trunks could acheive SSJ so easily to offset the whole "world resting on them" plot of the Buu Saga.

Stating that those two "brats" came by their power so quickly at such a young age, helps to make the whole Fusion and Super Gotenks 3 stuff more believable.

I mean if they had to acheive it like everyone else, the whole BS

would have been more drawn out.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:15 pm

::Reads through Thread::

I think now that anything involving young Goten and Trunks is automatically doomed to be humorous...

As for Goten and Trunks' reasons being despair b/c of their families... I don't think so.
With Goten, we see that Chi-Chi is nowhere near as strict with him as she was with Goten, and, as has been already pointed out, she's even trained with him (she misses Goku, huh?). And Gohan's certainly no evil older brother or anything, either.

And with Trunks... his family may be weird (esp. the grandparents), but he by no means dislikes or is depressed because of any of 'em. In fact, it's shown ishloads of times during the Buu arc that Trunks immensly looks up to and admires his dad, despite Vegeta's short temper, etc.

Yay, first to make those points.