Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

[smiley]

The anime/GT version of Goku would beat most versions of Superman.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I dont know, Superman isn't to be underestimated. SSJ4 Goku might pull it off in this battle but I'm not sure.

[Puto]

I'm surprised that my advantage account from 3 to 4 years ago still works. Guess those last forever.

[dbzfan7]

I don't buy the sun was the reason his power has been inconsistent. Even without the Sun Supes has been shown to last a long period of time. There are several threads and scans across the internet that conflict with basically every feat he has ever shown. Supes doesn't lose all his power when he is away from the sun for just a bit. Seems like a lazy excuse to dismiss inconsistencies. Since they are doing that the battle can go either way.

[Bussani]

Well, it has been suggested that a Kryptonian's power levels can fluctuate depending on how long they've been under a yellow star. That is, there's a difference between a Superman who's only been under a yellow star for a few hours and a Superman who's been under a yellow star for years. But yeah, he doesn't lose his power as soon as the Sun goes away. In fact, even without the Sun, I'm sure Goku would run out of stamina before he did.

[dbzfan7]

Well, it has been suggested that a Kryptonian's power levels can fluctuate depending on how long they've been under a yellow star. That is, there's a difference between a Superman who's only been under a yellow star for a few hours and a Superman who's been under a yellow star for years. But yeah, he doesn't lose his power as soon as the Sun goes away. In fact, even without the Sun, I'm sure Goku would run out of stamina before he did.

But he has been under a yellow Sun for years on earth. Still sounds like a cop out excuse instead of admitting the writers just had different mindsets for Supes.

[Mewzard]

Well, it has been suggested that a Kryptonian's power levels can fluctuate depending on how long they've been under a yellow star. That is, there's a difference between a Superman who's only been under a yellow star for a few hours and a Superman who's been under a yellow star for years. But yeah, he doesn't lose his power as soon as the Sun goes away. In fact, even without the Sun, I'm sure Goku would run out of stamina before he did.

But he has been under a yellow Sun for years on earth. Still sounds like a cop out excuse instead of admitting the writers just had different mindsets for Supes.

One could argue he's like a giant solar battery; he's always absorbing sunlight and growing stronger, so even when he's fighting in the dark, he's got large reserves to work from. Think Birdman, from the old cartoons. When he was drained, he'd fly up higher towards the Sun, to absorb more light.

[dbzfan7]

Well, it has been suggested that a Kryptonian's power levels can fluctuate depending on how long they've been under a yellow star. That is, there's a difference between a Superman who's only been under a yellow star for a few hours and a Superman who's been under a yellow star for years. But yeah, he doesn't lose his power as soon as the Sun goes away. In fact, even without the Sun, I'm sure Goku would run out of stamina before he did.

But he has been under a yellow Sun for years on earth. Still sounds like a cop out excuse instead of admitting the writers just had different mindsets for Supes.

One could argue he's like a giant solar battery; he's always absorbing sunlight and growing stronger, so even when he's fighting in the dark, he's got large reserves to work from. Think Birdman, from the old cartoons. When he was drained, he'd fly up higher towards the Sun, to absorb more light.

That is what I think. After being under the earth sun, he should be fine as long as he didn't go through a tough battle that would wear him out. Otherwise he could go anywhere and keep all the power he had absorbed until he starts using it.

[dario03]

My preferred in-universe answer to his various levels of power is the mental blocks. Though it doesn't work out to well in lifting/speed feats it works pretty good for his fights.

[Bussani]

Well, it has been suggested that a Kryptonian's power levels can fluctuate depending on how long they've been under a yellow star. That is, there's a difference between a Superman who's only been under a yellow star for a few hours and a Superman who's been under a yellow star for years. But yeah, he doesn't lose his power as soon as the Sun goes away. In fact, even without the Sun, I'm sure Goku would run out of stamina before he did.

But he has been under a yellow Sun for years on earth.

Had been. He has, on occasion, lost his charge and had to start back from square one.

Still sounds like a cop out excuse instead of admitting the writers just had different mindsets for Supes.

What a weird thing to say. Don't practically all of us come up with in universe explanations for Dragon Ball things even when we know the real answer is sometimes just, "Because Toriyama wanted it that way," or, "because Toriyama was making it up as he went"? Having an in universe answer for something doesn't mean you're not admitting that there's an out of universe reason for it, too. Heck, isn't it good for an author to come up with an in universe reason for an out of universe decision?

[dbzfan7]

Had been. He has, on occasion, lost his charge and had to start back from square one.

From what I have seen he was still on earth. Most of his trips to the sun are for rejuvenation or sun dips. He looks perfectly fine and doesn't mention any problems. It is painfully obvious that since their are different writers, they are going to write Supes differently. Which makes pinpointing things not exactly easy.

What a weird thing to say. Don't practically all of us come up with in universe explanations for Dragon Ball things even when we know the real answer is sometimes just, "Because Toriyama wanted it that way," or, "because Toriyama was making it up as he went"? Having an in universe answer for something doesn't mean you're not admitting that there's an out of universe reason for it, too. Heck, isn't it good for an author to come up with an in universe reason for an out of universe decision?

We usually speculate. The difference is their is one continuity for Goku, Superman has several, so what he could do in one issue he can't in another. Sometimes he is faster or as fast as light, other times Superman himself says he isn't faster than light. He once said he was faster then a speeding bullet but not enough to catch the bullets to save people. DB is much easier to speculate since Goku follows a regular set of rules that don't change. Superman can go from amazing to low ball feat between writers. It is a common thing to happen such as when Hulk is written to be beaten by the likes of Spiderman and Captain America. Even Silver Surfer with the power of Cosmic is defeated by people massively slower then him with his board which makes no sense. Sometimes universe explanation doesn't work. For dragonball the Rabbit gang can somehow survive in space but Saiyans can't? 2 of them were humans. Toriyama even states they survive Muten Roshi's blast and drift through space. It makes no sense how he could make the change but it fixed by the fact Dragonball was written kind of like a gag manga. There is no in-universe explanation for that.

[Bussani]

From what I have seen he was still on earth. Most of his trips to the sun are for rejuvenation or sun dips. He looks perfectly fine and doesn't mention any problems.

I didn't mean to say that he left Earth, but looking back at it, I can see how what I said sounded like that. What I was trying to say is that, on occasion, for one reason or another, he's completely lost his powers and had to start again from square one. He hasn't been continuously building up energy since he arrived on Earth because sometimes something will come along and put him back to zero.

We usually speculate. The difference is their is one continuity for Goku, Superman has several, so what he could do in one issue he can't in another. Sometimes he is faster or as fast as light, other times Superman himself says he isn't faster than light. He once said he was faster then a speeding bullet but not enough to catch the bullets to save people. DB is much easier to speculate since Goku follows a regular set of rules that don't change. Superman can go from amazing to low ball feat between writers. It is a common thing to happen such as when Hulk is written to be beaten by the likes of Spiderman and Captain America. Even Silver Surfer with the power of Cosmic is defeated by people massively slower then him with his board which makes no sense. Sometimes universe explanation doesn't work. For dragonball the Rabbit gang can somehow survive in space but Saiyans can't? 2 of them were humans. Toriyama even states they survive Muten Roshi's blast and drift through space. It makes no sense how he could make the change but it fixed by the fact Dragonball was written kind of like a gag manga. There is no in-universe explanation for that.

The explanation isn't supposed to explain differences between continuities, but instead differences within a single continuity. You're right that there isn't always a good in universe explanation for something, but that's no reason to accuse people of refusing to admit that something happened for out of universe reasons (e.g. a change in authors). Everyone knows about the out of universe answers. They don't need to be admitted because they're obvious.

[TonyTheTiger]

Well, it has been suggested that a Kryptonian's power levels can fluctuate depending on how long they've been under a yellow star. That is, there's a difference between a Superman who's only been under a yellow star for a few hours and a Superman who's been under a yellow star for years. But yeah, he doesn't lose his power as soon as the Sun goes away. In fact, even without the Sun, I'm sure Goku would run out of stamina before he did.

But he has been under a yellow Sun for years on earth. Still sounds like a cop out excuse instead of admitting the writers just had different mindsets for Supes.

You're going to notice a pattern. Superman's greatest demonstrations of power tend to happen when he's A) in a situation he has no control over or B) not on Earth. His "weakest" moments? When collateral damage is a real issue. They were right that there is justification for Superman's "inconsistencies." They just gave the wrong example. It has nothing to do with the sun. It has to do with him being afraid someone is going to die as a result of his behavior. He consciously and subconsciously holds back all the time and only really lets loose when he has nothing to lose.

These aren't inconsistencies. They're characterization.

The difference is their is one continuity for Goku, Superman has several, so what he could do in one issue he can't in another.

Can Goku perform the Dragon Fist? How about Lord Slug? Did Goku ever fight Lord Slug?

Seems like in spite of all the never ending debates on Dragon Ball's story, once Superman comes into the picture everyone points and laughs at the lack of one true canon.

[TheMightyOzaru]

DBZ has one writer for the main story and another for filler and such. Superman has many writers that have different view points on what Superman is capable of. Goku is pretty constant with his feats. However this isn't an important topic of discussion since Screwattack is combining the modern continuities all into one Superman. They are also using all the content of Dragon Ball unless it specifically contradicts the manga. From what I've seen so far this fight could go either way but SSJ2 Goku is too much for Superman with an average amount of solar radiation based on the first half of the battle. Goku still has 40x that amount of Ki in reserves. However being exposed really closely to the sun has only multiplied Superman's power by 3 from what I've seen in the analysis so based on that Goku has the victory for now.

[Jackal puFF]

Watching the previous death battles.. Looks like Goku's going to lose.. Plus I've seen some posts on their site they hate DBZ. So they're gonna be a little biased maybe.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Screwattack does not hate DBZ. I'm assuming you saw that "8 things we hate about DBZ"? If you didn't notice they also had a segment on their sight called "13 things we love about DBZ". They do not have a biased when it comes to this show. Case in point these guys are major nintendo fans and they let Mario lose to Sonic since Sonic is the superior fighter. What makes you think Goku will lose?

[VegettoEX]

They hate it just as much as they love it.

That's a pretty silly statement to make. If they truly hated it, they just wouldn't use it at all. They wouldn't have known so much about it before even coming to us.

Again, folks -- this is a fun video made by people having fun that enjoy the things they're having fun with. There's no secret agenda behind it.

[Jackal puFF]

Screwattack does not hate DBZ. I'm assuming you saw that "8 things we hate about DBZ"? If you didn't notice they also had a segment on their sight called "13 things we love about DBZ". They do not have a biased when it comes to this show. Case in point these guys are major nintendo fans and they let Mario lose to Sonic since Sonic is the superior fighter. What makes you think Goku will lose?

Ahh I'm a little quick to judge.

But I don't know comparing the previews, Superman has the edge.

[dbzfan7]

The inconsistencies I talk about are when Superman states what he is capable of when at another point he is capable of more. He even says he isn't faster then light when sometimes he is. That is not holding back when he himself states this. When he states his muscle reactions weren't fast enough to save people who were shot at.

DBZ has one writer for the main story and another for filler and such. Superman has many writers that have different view points on what Superman is capable of. Goku is pretty constant with his feats. However this isn't an important topic of discussion since Screwattack is combining the modern continuities all into one Superman. They are also using all the content of Dragon Ball unless it specifically contradicts the manga. From what I've seen so far this fight could go either way but SSJ2 Goku is too much for Superman with an average amount of solar radiation based on the first half of the battle. Goku still has 40x that amount of Ki in reserves. However being exposed really closely to the sun has only multiplied Superman's power by 3 from what I've seen in the analysis so based on that Goku has the victory for now.

You saw part of the battle already?

[TheMightyOzaru]

The inconsistencies I talk about are when Superman states what he is capable of when at another point he is capable of more. He even says he isn't faster then light when sometimes he is. That is not holding back when he himself states this. When he states his muscle reactions weren't fast enough to save people who were shot at.

DBZ has one writer for the main story and another for filler and such. Superman has many writers that have different view points on what Superman is capable of. Goku is pretty constant with his feats. However this isn't an important topic of discussion since Screwattack is combining the modern continuities all into one Superman. They are also using all the content of Dragon Ball unless it specifically contradicts the manga. From what I've seen so far this fight could go either way but SSJ2 Goku is too much for Superman with an average amount of solar radiation based on the first half of the battle. Goku still has 40x that amount of Ki in reserves. However being exposed really closely to the sun has only multiplied Superman's power by 3 from what I've seen in the analysis so based on that Goku has the victory for now.

You saw part of the battle already?

Yes. Watch the Goku anlysis, on the Kanzenshuu homepage, and then toward the end of that video you will see a video of an interview with Wiz and Boomstick. At about 29 minutes the first half of the battle will be shown.