DBZKai comes to the UK

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RazorX
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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by RazorX » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:39 pm

Here's some interesting things that haven't been pointed out yet.

The ending that Kix! used is a very sped up Yeah Break Care Break with Dragon Soul playing in the background. Also, the Nicktoons logo is shown after the credits, making it obvious that they cheaply tacked on the US Nicktoons dub without even bothering to check it properly. It's actually amusing to see the logo of a rival channel being credited for a show they don't have the rights to. Let's see how long it takes them to realse what they've done.

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by kei17 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:17 am

TheBlackPaladin wrote:Also, someone told me that the additional visual edits that were made in the Westwood dub were because eventually they started using footage provided by the AB Groupe from France. I've never compared the French footage and the Ocean footage side-by-side, so I can't confirm if this is the case. However, there are hints that this may be the case. It's worth noting that the Blue Water (Canadian/UK) dub of "Dragon Ball" has an English opening that is clearly a dub of the French opening.
The Westwood dub used AB Groupe's footage only for the last few episodes.

FUNi's footage until episode 273/287:
Image

AB's footage from episode 274/288 to the end:
Image
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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:09 am

Thank you, Kei!
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by TestDemo » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:50 am

Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu wrote:
TestDemo wrote:I already know I'm right.
But that doesn't help anyone else now does it? It's one person's word against another. If you check
my last post I edited it to make it clear that I thought I heard it whilst Raditz was talking.

I'm not trying to cause trouble here by the way, I'm just trying to make sure we get the right information out there. If you're right, and someone else agrees with what you've said or you produce evidence to support the fact that you're right then my hats off to you!
In order to end this discussion, here is a screenshot from the episode. The orignal assertion was that it was the CW4Kids/Toonzai/Vortex version that aired in the US. It is not, as you can see from the topic on that version there were numerous changes including recoloring the bullet Raditz catches from its copper color to a neon-blue color, as well as other edits. The screenshot below shows that this is the NickToons US version because it lacks the edits done by 4Kids:

Image
Last edited by TestDemo on Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Saiyan Prince Vegeta » Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:51 am

I'm just really happy we've got something dragon ball related to watch now :)

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:21 am

TestDemo wrote:In order to end this discussion, here is a screenshot from the episode. The orignal assertion was that it was the CW4Kids/Toonzai/Vortex version that aired in the US. It is not, as you can see from the topic on that version there were numerous changes including recoloring the bullet Raditz catches from its copper color to a neon-blue color, as well as other edits. The screenshot below shows that this is the NickToons US version because it lacks the edits done by 4Kids:
Thank you, my mistake (sorry!). I did have my doubts about it being the CW4Kids edit but that was only after I made my 1st post. But you're right, so it's needless to go on. Thanks again.

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:36 am

@RazorX

Ocean's dub didn't start making referrences to death until the Fusion saga so we had most of the series with them saying "hurt" instead of "kill". That's why I said rarely instead of never. And that's what makes it more stupid. It was obvious that Cell had killed all those people by absorbing them yet they insult our intelligence by saying he hurt them.

And about the Blue Water dub. My point was that only FUNi and Ocean have dubbed Kai so out of those 2 FUNi's dub is more likely to have less edits. I know Ocean are using some Blue Water voice actors but it's still the Ocean dub so chances are there will be further edits.

And it's obvious that your argument is based on your own opinion and yet your stating it as fact. My argument was also based on opinion but I made that clear. I mean can you honestly say you enjoyed Blue Water's dub of GT? Were adult Goku's voice, Omega Shenron's voice, Gohan's voice and Vegeta's voice really better than the Funi cast in your mind? If you really think that I suggest you get your ears tested.

I think Schemmel was just being honest about the dub professional or not. What would he have to gain by bashing Ocean's dub? It's not like both dubs are being released in a single country and you have to chose which one you buy. To me you just sound like an Ocean fanboy who will defend their dub and bash FUNi no matter what. I mean you haven't even heard the new dub and your already saying its great which you have no evidence for. Ocean's dub was great when they dubbed the Saiyan/Namek sagas and movies 1-3 but apart from that it sucked imo.

About the whole CNX dub changing thing. How can you prove people were up in arms? I'm sure Ocean fans like yourself were but you have no proof that you represent the majority. I was personally devastated when they switched back to Ocean. And it wasn't because of fan backlash that they ditched the FUNi Fusion saga. It was because Ocean were behind with their dubbing so they aired FUNi and planned on going back to Ocean all along. This was proven to me by the fact that CNX kept using Ocean's intro for FUNi's dub. In other words they were going to switch back to Ocean no matter how much people liked FUNi's dub. They had used Ocean since the Trunks saga because it was cheaper to licence them and wanted to stick with it at the Fusion saga for consistencies sake because they were planning on taking the cheap route again and getting Ocean's Kid Buu saga. It would make no sense to keep FUNi's Fusion saga if they were going to take the cheap route by going forward with Ocean's Kid Buu saga. AB Groupe were in charge and its painfully obvious that they are notoriously cheap by their choice of the Big Green dub for the movies and their choice of Ocean's budget studio Blue Water Studio for GT and DB. They were out to save money that's all. Not to please the majority of fans.

We are very lucky to be getting FUNi's dub actually. For once AB aren't in charge and can't take the cheap route. Toei had the good sense to give us the FUNi dub. It doesn't matter what I say though because you will always hate on FUNi's dub because you're incapable of objectively observing and realising that their dub has greatly improved. This isn't their Season 3 Z dub. This is well acted and the characters are all well cast. And believe it or not, but not everybody can afford to import FUNi's dub of Kai from America so for the sake of all the UK FUNi fans it's a very good thing it's being aired. You talk like the whole UK wants your precious Ocean dub. I admit that there are a fair few that do but you definitely can't prove that they are the majority. I know of many FUNi fans in the UK who couldn't stand the Ocean dub.

Well I can only pray to god that you're wrong and that the Ocean fans haven't ruined DBZ for us again. It would be a differeny story if Ocean were still the way they were in the 90s. But they're not. From having to endure the Westwood dub for years and from Schemmel's opinion on their new dub I have to say I've lost confidence in Ocean ever producing a TV worthy dub of DBZ again.

Fresh and new doesn't automatically equal better. The Big Green dub was also fresh and new but that wasn't exactly great.

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by elcrunkus » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:57 am

90sDBZ wrote:@RazorX

Ocean's dub didn't start making referrences to death until the Fusion saga so we had most of the series with them saying "hurt" instead of "kill". That's why I said rarely instead of never. And that's what makes it more stupid. It was obvious that Cell had killed all those people by absorbing them yet they insult our intelligence by saying he hurt them.

And about the Blue Water dub. My point was that only FUNi and Ocean have dubbed Kai so out of those 2 FUNi's dub is more likely to have less edits. I know Ocean are using some Blue Water voice actors but it's still the Ocean dub so chances are there will be further edits.

And it's obvious that your argument is based on your own opinion and yet your stating it as fact. My argument was also based on opinion but I made that clear. I mean can you honestly say you enjoyed Blue Water's dub of GT? Were adult Goku's voice, Omega Shenron's voice, Gohan's voice and Vegeta's voice really better than the Funi cast in your mind? If you really think that I suggest you get your ears tested.

I think Schemmel was just being honest about the dub professional or not. What would he have to gain by bashing Ocean's dub? It's not like both dubs are being released in a single country and you have to chose which one you buy. To me you just sound like an Ocean fanboy who will defend their dub and bash FUNi no matter what. I mean you haven't even heard the new dub and your already saying its great which you have no evidence for. Ocean's dub was great when they dubbed the Saiyan/Namek sagas and movies 1-3 but apart from that it sucked imo.

About the whole CNX dub changing thing. How can you prove people were up in arms? I'm sure Ocean fans like yourself were but you have no proof that you represent the majority. I was personally devastated when they switched back to Ocean. And it wasn't because of fan backlash that they ditched the FUNi Fusion saga. It was because Ocean were behind with their dubbing so they aired FUNi and planned on going back to Ocean all along. This was proven to me by the fact that CNX kept using Ocean's intro for FUNi's dub. In other words they were going to switch back to Ocean no matter how much people liked FUNi's dub. They had used Ocean since the Trunks saga because it was cheaper to licence them and wanted to stick with it at the Fusion saga for consistencies sake because they were planning on taking the cheap route again and getting Ocean's Kid Buu saga. It would make no sense to keep FUNi's Fusion saga if they were going to take the cheap route by going forward with Ocean's Kid Buu saga. AB Groupe were in charge and its painfully obvious that they are notoriously cheap by their choice of the Big Green dub for the movies and their choice of Ocean's budget studio Blue Water Studio for GT and DB. They were out to save money that's all. Not to please the majority of fans.

We are very lucky to be getting FUNi's dub actually. For once AB aren't in charge and can't take the cheap route. Toei had the good sense to give us the FUNi dub. It doesn't matter what I say though because you will always hate on FUNi's dub because you're incapable of objectively observing and realising that their dub has greatly improved. This isn't their Season 3 Z dub. This is well acted and the characters are all well cast. And believe it or not, but not everybody can afford to import FUNi's dub of Kai from America so for the sake of all the UK FUNi fans it's a very good thing it's being aired. You talk like the whole UK wants your precious Ocean dub. I admit that there are a fair few that do but you definitely can't prove that they are the majority. I know of many FUNi fans in the UK who couldn't stand the Ocean dub.

Well I can only pray to god that you're wrong and that the Ocean fans haven't ruined DBZ for us again. It would be a differeny story if Ocean were still the way they were in the 90s. But they're not. From having to endure the Westwood dub for years and from Schemmel's opinion on their new dub I have to say I've lost confidence in Ocean ever producing a TV worthy dub of DBZ again.

Fresh and new doesn't automatically equal better. The Big Green dub was also fresh and new but that wasn't exactly great.

Did you get oceans "dragonball" dub? How was that?

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:44 pm

We actually got Blue Water's DB dub. While their GT dub was awful their DB dub was admittedly pretty decent. Not quite at FUNi's level but certainly more watchable than Westwood Ocean DBZ and Blue Water GT anyway.

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Sin » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:57 pm

I'm actually relieved it's not the CW4Kids edit, we got the best of a bad bunch but it could've been worse. Hopefully they iron some stuff out before it actually airs, though I won't hold my breathe.

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by linkdude20002001 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:08 pm

90sDBZ wrote:We actually got Blue Water's DB dub. While their GT dub was awful their DB dub was admittedly pretty decent. Not quite at FUNi's level but certainly more watchable than Westwood Ocean DBZ and Blue Water GT anyway.
The Westwood dub of Dragon Ball was better than the 2001 Funimation dub in my opinion. Slusar's acting is way better than Nadolny's, and Davies is way better than Volmer.
But than the other actors in the Funimation dub are better than the actors in the Westwood dub, but I prefer the more even level of acting throughout.
Plus, the side characters in the Funimation dub (at least in the first story arc) are TERRIBLE. They sound like their voices are all modified electronically.
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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by 90sDBZ » Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:07 pm

I agree that Blue Water Goku and Bulma were good but I wouldn't say any better than the FUNi version. Roshi on the other hand sounded MUCH better in FUNi. He managed to sound wise and perverted which is exactly how Roshi should sound. Blue Water Roshi sounded wise enough but failed at the perverted side. Also Adult Goku sounded better in the FUNi dub.

Also there was never a Westwood dub of DB (thank god). What you're referencing to is the Blue Water dub that wasn't recorded in Westwood studios.

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Super Gazellian » Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:35 pm

Man, I'm feeling so left out not having Kix, this sucks xD

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by linkdude20002001 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:26 pm

90sDBZ wrote:I agree that Blue Water Goku and Bulma were good but I wouldn't say any better than the FUNi version. Roshi on the other hand sounded MUCH better in FUNi. He managed to sound wise and perverted which is exactly how Roshi should sound. Blue Water Roshi sounded wise enough but failed at the perverted side. Also Adult Goku sounded better in the FUNi dub.

Also there was never a Westwood dub of DB (thank god). What you're referencing to is the Blue Water dub that wasn't recorded in Westwood studios.
From my knowledge (though I forget where I learnt this) that dub was done by Westwood Media using Blue Water Studios. I was told they did DBZ at least, and I'd assume they did all three shows. I know that DBZ, however, was recorded at Westwood Studios (and sometimes Ocean Studios).
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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by RazorX » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:03 pm

90sDBZ wrote:@RazorX

Ocean's dub didn't start making referrences to death until the Fusion saga so we had most of the series with them saying "hurt" instead of "kill". That's why I said rarely instead of never. And that's what makes it more stupid. It was obvious that Cell had killed all those people by absorbing them yet they insult our intelligence by saying he hurt them.
It's obvious that Cell killed them and AFAIK Ocean did use death prior to Buu but it was not as frequent as the Buu saga. Nonethless Ocean's best work came from the Buu saga
90sDBZ wrote:And about the Blue Water dub. My point was that only FUNi and Ocean have dubbed Kai so out of those 2 FUNi's dub is more likely to have less edits. I know Ocean are using some Blue Water voice actors but it's still the Ocean dub so chances are there will be further edits.
I don't think there'll be further edits unless Kix! wants them. But even if there are, I'd much prefer a vastly superior dub from Ocean with more edits over an 'average' dub from Funi. (I'm talking about Kai, Funi's DBZ dub was terrible) A lot of people, even Funi fans, prefer the Saban Ocean dubbed Saiyan-Namek sagas which are heavily edited over the uncut Funimation episodes. A quality dub with edits thrashes a poor dub, even if it's uncut.

90sDBZ wrote:And it's obvious that your argument is based on your own opinion and yet your stating it as fact. My argument was also based on opinion but I made that clear. I mean can you honestly say you enjoyed Blue Water's dub of GT? Were adult Goku's voice, Omega Shenron's voice, Gohan's voice and Vegeta's voice really better than the Funi cast in your mind? If you really think that I suggest you get your ears tested.
If you think Funi's GT dub is any good, then its you who needs to get your ears tested. The Blue Water dub easily trumps the Funi dub, including all the character voices you listed. You're guilty of what you accused me off, as an example, you try to pass off the Funi Kai dub as being 'good' as if it's a fact when it's actually your opinion.

By the way, you just did a disservice to Funi by listing one of their stupid name changes. 'Omega' is a name they came up with. Blue Water kept the original name so I never refer to the final villain of GT by that idiotic name Funi came up with, another case of them thinking their audience is too stupid to handle the original Japanese names. At least Blue Water mostly kept away from stupid name changes.
90sDBZ wrote:I think Schemmel was just being honest about the dub professional or not. What would he have to gain by bashing Ocean's dub? It's not like both dubs are being released in a single country and you have to chose which one you buy.
Schemmel wasn't being honest. He was stating his opinion in a very unprofessional manner.

Universally, fans agree that Funi's dub of 'season' 3 was complete rubbish. I'm sure that the Ocean actors also feel it was rubbish but none of them publically insulted it.
90sDBZ wrote: To me you just sound like an Ocean fanboy who will defend their dub and bash FUNi no matter what. I mean you haven't even heard the new dub and your already saying its great which you have no evidence for. Ocean's dub was great when they dubbed the Saiyan/Namek sagas and movies 1-3 but apart from that it sucked imo.
I prefer Ocean's dubs by far but I bash Funi's dubs because they are poor.

As for my confidence on Ocean's Kai being great, that is not baseless, unlike your bashing of Ocean's Kai dub which of course you haven't seen.

I'm basing my views on Ocean based on a number of factors including past experience and the information that we know about the Ocean dub so far. I doubt you even know what's been revealed about the dub.


90sDBZ wrote:About the whole CNX dub changing thing. How can you prove people were up in arms? I'm sure Ocean fans like yourself were but you have no proof that you represent the majority. I was personally devastated when they switched back to Ocean. And it wasn't because of fan backlash that they ditched the FUNi Fusion saga. It was because Ocean were behind with their dubbing so they aired FUNi and planned on going back to Ocean all along. This was proven to me by the fact that CNX kept using Ocean's intro for FUNi's dub. In other words they were going to switch back to Ocean no matter how much people liked FUNi's dub. They had used Ocean since the Trunks saga because it was cheaper to licence them and wanted to stick with it at the Fusion saga for consistencies sake because they were planning on taking the cheap route again and getting Ocean's Kid Buu saga. It would make no sense to keep FUNi's Fusion saga if they were going to take the cheap route by going forward with Ocean's Kid Buu saga. AB Groupe were in charge and its painfully obvious that they are notoriously cheap by their choice of the Big Green dub for the movies and their choice of Ocean's budget studio Blue Water Studio for GT and DB. They were out to save money that's all. Not to please the majority of fans.
Once again you're trying to pass off your opinions as facts, something you accused me off. Cheaper to license? You clearly haven't analysed the potential costs and would prefer to stick your head in the hand because you're a Funi fanboy. The Ocean cast is more expensive than the Funimation cast. Other than Funi blatantly admitting they stopped using Ocean to save money, it's also known that the Ocean actors belong to a union, which means they most certainly get higher pay than Funi's non-union actors. I'd say that Ocean's actors were paid more in 2000 than what Funi's actors are paid in 2010, let alone 2000.

If Ocean used all new music for their dub, I would certainly argue that the music is more expensive than the Faulconer music because the Faulconer music was created by what one of their own composers described as 'underpaid college grads' However since Ocean used a mix of new and pre-existing music, and since Faulconer's music was produced cheaply, I am not certain which side I'd say is more expensive.

Scripts and video footage was shared so obviously Ocean and Funi had some sort of agreement on that.

I'd be willing to conclude that the Ocean/Westwood dub was overall more expensive to produce than the Funimation dub, but Ocean's dub was popular enough to bring in the ratings and the money to continue being produced and be nicely profitable for all parties involved.



The intro and outro is no proof of which dub they intended to go with. At times CNX used the Saban outro with the Westwood Ocean dub.

Funny how you blame AB for being cheap but conveniently forget that Funimation stopped using the expensive Ocean cast and instead started using dirt cheap imitators from the Ginyu saga onwards, even though DBZ by that time became a big hit. That was cheapness to the extreme.

By the way, it was established some years ago that Ken Morrison, head of the Ocean Group and the producer, moved the recording to Blue Water studios, not AB Groupe, so you can't really blame AB for the move. AB went with the Ocean cast, the talented cast.



Also, the European dubs of the movies were made before the Ocean group returned. In other words, AB may have used cheap talent for the movies but for the series, they went to the expensive Ocean cast for the series rather than using the same cheap talent they found for the movies or talent within the EU. Why go over to Canada when there are plenty of dubbing studios in Europe....because Ocean set a precedent for quality and AB were generous enough to provide fans what Funimation deprived fans off. AB Groupe are the saviours of the Dragon Ball series, if not for them we'd have to put up with the horrid Funimation dubs of DB, Z & GT.
90sDBZ wrote:We are very lucky to be getting FUNi's dub actually. For once AB aren't in charge and can't take the cheap route. Toei had the good sense to give us the FUNi dub. It doesn't matter what I say though because you will always hate on FUNi's dub because you're incapable of objectively observing and realising that their dub has greatly improved. This isn't their Season 3 Z dub. This is well acted and the characters are all well cast. And believe it or not, but not everybody can afford to import FUNi's dub of Kai from America so for the sake of all the UK FUNi fans it's a very good thing it's being aired. You talk like the whole UK wants your precious Ocean dub. I admit that there are a fair few that do but you definitely can't prove that they are the majority. I know of many FUNi fans in the UK who couldn't stand the Ocean dub.
I wouldn't count AB Groupe out. A few years ago, fans thought AB lost the license but when the Kai DVDs started being released in France, they were released by AB Groupe, indicating AB Groupe probably renewed their license for the Dragon Ball series.

Obivously you seem incapable of reading my posts. I said Funi's DBZ dub is terrible, I didn't say their Kai dub is terrible (although there are certainly parts in Funi's Kai dub which are terrible, such as anything involving Kyle Hebert, who at this point is the worst 'actor' (and I hesitate to use that term on him because he couldn't act his way out of a straight tunnel) in the Funi cast.)

The UK is getting screwed because the UK is supposed to be getting what I believe to be a much better dub than what the UK is currently getting for Kai. I really hope that the Funi dub is temporary and would be replaced by the Ocean dub soon.

Also, there's past indications that point towards the fact of the Ocean dub being more popular, such as what happened with the Fusion saga.

And, unless there's confirmation of an Ocean dub DVD/Blu Ray release, the only way to see the Ocean dub is through TV broadcasts, and if that's the case, it's selfish to demand the Funi dub as the Funi dub is easily available through DVD releases and streams.


90sDBZ wrote:Well I can only pray to god that you're wrong and that the Ocean fans haven't ruined DBZ for us again. It would be a differeny story if Ocean were still the way they were in the 90s. But they're not. From having to endure the Westwood dub for years and from Schemmel's opinion on their new dub I have to say I've lost confidence in Ocean ever producing a TV worthy dub of DBZ again.
You seem adamant on agreeing with Schemmel despite evidence stacked against his opinion. In that case, you should have no trouble agreeing with his views on the Faulconer music (which he dislikes and has criticised) Schemmel also criticsed/bashed the Funi DBZ dub, perhaps you'd like to agree with him on that as well.

By the way, Scott McNeil said that Ocean Kai sounds better than the Saban Ocean and Westwood Ocean dubs. I'm much more willing to believe him over someone like Schemmel who has a vested interest in bashing the dub, especially if he knows inside him that the Ocean dub is better.

If Ocean Kai is better than Ocean Buu, then it is nothing less than awesome.
90sDBZ wrote:Fresh and new doesn't automatically equal better. The Big Green dub was also fresh and new but that wasn't exactly great.
I don't know why you keep comparing the Euro dub with the Ocean dub. The Euro dub wasn't great but it was certainly more tolerable than Funi's dub, due to the awful 'bands' Funi stuck into their movies, who at times competed with the voices, very unprofessional mixing.

Anyway the Euro dub had some voices which are better than Funi's dub.

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by RazorX » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:22 pm

RazorX wrote:
Ryu-Ken Bakuhatsu wrote:
TestDemo wrote:
I don't know what Kix you're watching, but I don't think its the same as mine. For the record, I have the episode recorded and the Farmer does not whimper, Raditz catches the bullet, makes his little speech, then it cuts to him noticing Piccolo's power level with only the sound of the exploded trunk in the background.
I could've sworn I heard it, it was whilst Raditz was talking. We'd best wait to see if anyone else agrees/disagrees before there's any kind of final verdict on what actually happened. :P
I recorded both episodes. I'll check that scene and post my findings later.
It's been established that the UK did not get the CW4kids edit, but I'll post my findings for that scene.

After the farmer shoots, Raditz catches the bullet, complaints about the human race being weaklings and in the background there is a slight noise of a broken truck. No moaning. Then Raditz flies off.

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by Tanooki Kuribo » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:52 pm

I'm glad you guys in the UK are getting the Nicktoons version. That means you already have an edits guide! :lol:

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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:17 am

@RazorX

Well I can half agree with your 1st point. Ocean did seem to pick up a bit in the Fusion and Kid Buu sagas by adding new music after making half the series a bore with the same handful of megaman music but still didn't measure up to FUNi at that point. Anyway it all comes down to opinion in the end. In my opinion FUNi Kai is the best English dub of DBZ ever and even if by some miracle Ocean's dub was as good I'd still take FUNi's dub over it out of personal preference.

How can you defend Blue Water GT though? Adult Goku's voice for one thing. I mean he was obviously doing a poor impression of Kirby Morrow's Goku and even Ocean themselves have admitted that Kirby wasn't suited to the part so having an impersonation of an already unsuitable performance really doesn't sound right. Vegeta sounded like he had throat cancer and was an even worse Brian Drummond impression than Season 3 FUNi Sabat. The Gohan they used had no emotion in his voice and has nothing on Kyle Herbert. Just compare the scene of Piccolo's death in GT and you'll see what I mean.

You've also just contradicted you're own point. Blue Water did make a stupid name change by changing General Rildo to General Lock while FUNi kept the original name. Let's not forget stupid lines in Blue Water's dub like Goku saying he was born on Earth.

Well you can call Schemmel unprofessional but he clearly wouldn't have been lying about what he said. Like you said he was stating his own opinion and coming from somebody that's been involved in the business as long as him I'm inclined to take it into account.

I actually know everything that's been revealed about Ocean's new dub for your information and have been following the Ocean topic for a long time. I know they're using a new Goku, I know McNeil is returning and that Drummond is meant to be too and that they're keeping to Japanese pronunciations. And I know that once again they're using replacement music which is why I really hope their dub doesn't air. The only music I can tolerate for DBZ is the original Japanese, Bruce Faulconer, Nathan Jonson or Shuki Levy and seeing as it will be none of them then it will most likely be recycled from other shows and will ruin the feel again like Megaman music did. And I also have reason to believe, based on whta's been revealed, that it will be a cheaply made dub I don't want on TV.

The Ocean cast did cost more back then but that was way back when FUNi 1st started but FUNi had improved by the time the Westwood dub aired. And the Westwood dub was clearly rushed and low budget. If Ocean's actors were really paid so much then why did so many of them leave mid-series? Ian Corlett even admitted he left because he wasn't paid enough. And it was obvious that Ocean's standard had dropped greatly by the Trunks saga. If they were really being paid so much then they'd have made more of an effort with the voice acting. They couldn't even afford a different voice actor for Roshi so they had Terry Klassen just use his Krillin voice. The fact that FUNi had to pay Faulconer and his studio to produce new music for the show while Ocean just outright took already made music from other shows makes it a no-brainer that Ocean was cheaper.

FUNi's dub was also popular and brought in ratings while it aired. DBZ was Cartoon Network's No.1 show before the Westwood dub aired. I remember them taking a really long time to air the Android episodes. In this time we had Ocean Saiyan and Namek sagas and FUNi Ginyu, Frieza, Garlic Jr and Trunks sagas so obviously we had much more FUNi at that time and it was still the No.1 show on Cartoon Network. Even after the series had finished CNX focused most of its promotional material on the Frieza saga which was in FUNi dub. This is because of the huge popularity of that saga so don't go acting like FUNi's dub didn't get huge ratings too.

I think the intro and outro is very concrete proof. It was very rare for them to use the Saban intro for Westwood episodes but with the FUNi fusion eps they consistently showed the Westwood intro AND outro for every single episode. You can't pretend that's a coincidence. Also you forget that FUNi didn't ditch Ocean out of cheapness but because they actually COULDN'T afford to keep because DBZ had not yet become a big hit when they let them go. It took another 2 years after dubbing it for it to gain huge success when it finally aired on Cartoon Network and by then they had already had to ditch Ocean and Saban. AB on the other hand ditched FUNi despite the show already being a hit. I call that pure greed and cheapness and disregard for fans.

Well if that's the case with Ocean choosing the cheaper cast then what's to say they're not doing the same with their Kai dub?

How do you actually know when the European dubs were made? I clearly remember us being well into Westwood's Cell games saga by the time the Advert for the Super Battle in the World DVD aired. The fact is AB got cheaper. The Westwood dub was cheaper than FUNi's dub. If AB weren't cheap they wouldn't have given us those god-awful movies. As far as I'm concerned AB Groupe are the anti-christ of the Dragonball franchise. It's because of those greedy people that we had to have replacement music in the Tenkaichi video game series. They contributed nothing to those games but because they held certain rights they decided to once again disregard the fans and charge ridiculously high prices for the music rights so we got stuck with replacement music. Yeah sounds real generous on AB's part. And again you're baselessly assuming that the majority agrees with your opinion of FUNi.

Ocean fans will always use that CNX situation as an argument but they have no proof. Can you give me official proof that that ratings dropped when FUNi aired or even didn't climb? FUNi didn't stop it from being the No.1 show in the old sagas so it wouldn't in the Fusion saga either.

And I hope you Ocean fans get a DVD release so you can have your dub and we don't have to get stuck with it on TV.

I don't agree with all Schemmel says but that's no reason to disregard his comment completely. The Westwood dub of Z was terrible so there's a good chance Ocean Kai will be too. And of course McNeil will say his own dub is good.

You've just defended the Euro dub. I can no longer take you seriously. I mean seriously? "Let that child alone!"? "Big Green!"? Goku and Vegeta powering up and shouting Kamehameha? Korin being a girl?

elcrunkus
Newbie
Posts: 32
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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by elcrunkus » Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:01 am

90sDBZ wrote:@RazorX

Well I can half agree with your 1st point. Ocean did seem to pick up a bit in the Fusion and Kid Buu sagas by adding new music after making half the series a bore with the same handful of megaman music but still didn't measure up to FUNi at that point. Anyway it all comes down to opinion in the end. In my opinion FUNi Kai is the best English dub of DBZ ever and even if by some miracle Ocean's dub was as good I'd still take FUNi's dub over it out of personal preference.

How can you defend Blue Water GT though? Adult Goku's voice for one thing. I mean he was obviously doing a poor impression of Kirby Morrow's Goku and even Ocean themselves have admitted that Kirby wasn't suited to the part so having an impersonation of an already unsuitable performance really doesn't sound right. Vegeta sounded like he had throat cancer and was an even worse Brian Drummond impression than Season 3 FUNi Sabat. The Gohan they used had no emotion in his voice and has nothing on Kyle Herbert. Just compare the scene of Piccolo's death in GT and you'll see what I mean.

You've also just contradicted you're own point. Blue Water did make a stupid name change by changing General Rildo to General Lock while FUNi kept the original name. Let's not forget stupid lines in Blue Water's dub like Goku saying he was born on Earth.

Well you can call Schemmel unprofessional but he clearly wouldn't have been lying about what he said. Like you said he was stating his own opinion and coming from somebody that's been involved in the business as long as him I'm inclined to take it into account.

I actually know everything that's been revealed about Ocean's new dub for your information and have been following the Ocean topic for a long time. I know they're using a new Goku, I know McNeil is returning and that Drummond is meant to be too and that they're keeping to Japanese pronunciations. And I know that once again they're using replacement music which is why I really hope their dub doesn't air. The only music I can tolerate for DBZ is the original Japanese, Bruce Faulconer, Nathan Jonson or Shuki Levy and seeing as it will be none of them then it will most likely be recycled from other shows and will ruin the feel again like Megaman music did. And I also have reason to believe, based on whta's been revealed, that it will be a cheaply made dub I don't want on TV.

The Ocean cast did cost more back then but that was way back when FUNi 1st started but FUNi had improved by the time the Westwood dub aired. And the Westwood dub was clearly rushed and low budget. If Ocean's actors were really paid so much then why did so many of them leave mid-series? Ian Corlett even admitted he left because he wasn't paid enough. And it was obvious that Ocean's standard had dropped greatly by the Trunks saga. If they were really being paid so much then they'd have made more of an effort with the voice acting. They couldn't even afford a different voice actor for Roshi so they had Terry Klassen just use his Krillin voice. The fact that FUNi had to pay Faulconer and his studio to produce new music for the show while Ocean just outright took already made music from other shows makes it a no-brainer that Ocean was cheaper.

FUNi's dub was also popular and brought in ratings while it aired. DBZ was Cartoon Network's No.1 show before the Westwood dub aired. I remember them taking a really long time to air the Android episodes. In this time we had Ocean Saiyan and Namek sagas and FUNi Ginyu, Freeza, Garlic Jr and Trunks sagas so obviously we had much more FUNi at that time and it was still the No.1 show on Cartoon Network. Even after the series had finished CNX focused most of its promotional material on the Freeza saga which was in FUNi dub. This is because of the huge popularity of that saga so don't go acting like FUNi's dub didn't get huge ratings too.

I think the intro and outro is very concrete proof. It was very rare for them to use the Saban intro for Westwood episodes but with the FUNi fusion eps they consistently showed the Westwood intro AND outro for every single episode. You can't pretend that's a coincidence. Also you forget that FUNi didn't ditch Ocean out of cheapness but because they actually COULDN'T afford to keep because DBZ had not yet become a big hit when they let them go. It took another 2 years after dubbing it for it to gain huge success when it finally aired on Cartoon Network and by then they had already had to ditch Ocean and Saban. AB on the other hand ditched FUNi despite the show already being a hit. I call that pure greed and cheapness and disregard for fans.

Well if that's the case with Ocean choosing the cheaper cast then what's to say they're not doing the same with their Kai dub?

How do you actually know when the European dubs were made? I clearly remember us being well into Westwood's Cell games saga by the time the Advert for the Super Battle in the World DVD aired. The fact is AB got cheaper. The Westwood dub was cheaper than FUNi's dub. If AB weren't cheap they wouldn't have given us those god-awful movies. As far as I'm concerned AB Groupe are the anti-christ of the Dragonball franchise. It's because of those greedy people that we had to have replacement music in the Tenkaichi video game series. They contributed nothing to those games but because they held certain rights they decided to once again disregard the fans and charge ridiculously high prices for the music rights so we got stuck with replacement music. Yeah sounds real generous on AB's part. And again you're baselessly assuming that the majority agrees with your opinion of FUNi.

Ocean fans will always use that CNX situation as an argument but they have no proof. Can you give me official proof that that ratings dropped when FUNi aired or even didn't climb? FUNi didn't stop it from being the No.1 show in the old sagas so it wouldn't in the Fusion saga either.

And I hope you Ocean fans get a DVD release so you can have your dub and we don't have to get stuck with it on TV.

I don't agree with all Schemmel says but that's no reason to disregard his comment completely. The Westwood dub of Z was terrible so there's a good chance Ocean Kai will be too. And of course McNeil will say his own dub is good.

You've just defended the Euro dub. I can no longer take you seriously. I mean seriously? "Let that child alone!"? "Big Green!"? Goku and Vegeta powering up and shouting Kamehameha? Karin being a girl?
I notice a lot of people say that ocean wasnt anywhere as good when they came back a second time (episode 108 forward?) I've seem some episodes on youtube and I would agree with that. A lot of people are hoping they take there time (which is seems like they have) and do a dub as good as the first 3 dbz movies they did. That's what a lot of people are hoping for.

TestDemo
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Posts: 62
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Re: DBZKai comes to the UK

Post by TestDemo » Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:21 pm

So no more until next Saturday. I wonder if the 9PM airings from the 5th onwards will be the uncut version?

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