Dragon Ball plotholes and your theories!

[VegettoEX]

I don't recall Trunks going back to the past in the regular Z series. Or was that just something that happened off camera?

We don't see it in the series proper, no, but you could always fudge DBZ Movie 9 into being that trip.

[Cold Skin]

I don't recall Trunks going back to the past in the regular Z series. Or was that just something that happened off camera?

We don't see it in the series proper, no, but you could always fudge DBZ Movie 9 into being that trip.

And that's a possibility mentionned by Piccolo in the manga, saying when Cell killed Trunks, the boy was probably getting back to the past to tell them all he had solved the cyborg problem in his timeline.
So I guess they took that opportunity for movie 9, considering the Trunks we know would do the same.

[Corpsecreate]

This isnt exactly a plot hole but I recall kabito-kai attempting to teleport to goku so that he can be healed to full strength and use the spirit bomb. Apparantly, kabito-kai used all his energy so he cant teleport. HOWEVER, Dende is standing right next to him so why not just get dende to heal kabito-kai so that he can go heal goku. Makes sense to me.

[Gonstead]

Heat of the moment makes people tend to forget other things.

[omegalucas]

And there's still a chance that Dende wasn't in the best condition to heal him as well. I would think that the Namekian healing probably tires the healer.

[Bussani]

Well, he did seem to think he could heal Goku, at least. Maybe he only had enough juice left for one person?

[AnimeMaakuo]

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[Sin]

I just got finished watching this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGuHzVkLlno), which explains the events that took place during time travel. One thing I don't seem to understand is when Trunks goes back to the year 763 (which is one year before 764)?

So are we to assume the Trunks who first visits the Z Fighters and warns of the Androids is the Trunks that is killed by Cell, and that the Trunks who visits after 3 years is in fact a different Trunks from another timeline?

[AnimeMaakuo]

I just got finished watching this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGuHzVkLlno), which explains the events that took place during time travel. One thing I don't seem to understand is when Trunks goes back to the year 763 (which is one year before 764)?

So are we to assume the Trunks who first visits the Z Fighters and warns of the Androids is the Trunks that is killed by Cell, and that the Trunks who visits after 3 years is in fact a different Trunks from another timeline?

Correct!

(1) Trunks is killed off by Imperfect Cell.
(2) Imperfect Cell steals Trunks' time machine, travels back into the year 763, and creates a new timeline (since the androids in 785 no longer exist).
(3) Mecha Frieza is defeated by Goku in 764.
(4) In 767, the androids show up soon after Goku dies of a heart attack.

(5) Bulma, Gohan, and Trunks survive. In 784, Trunks travels back to the year 764 (creating a new timeline), warns Goku and the others of the impending android threat.
(6) Trunks returns back to his timeline (waits 8 months), and then goes back to the year 767 (creating another timeline)
(7) In this timeline, we see the appearance of the androids 17 & 18, and later Imperfect Cell (this is the main timeline that we see in the anime).

(8) After Gohan defeats Cell, Trunks returns to his timeline (creating another timeline) where he's able to defeat the androids, and later Cell (also seen in the anime).

I believe that Trunks went back to the year 763 because that's the year he initially was headed to before Cell stole the time machine, where he later stops in an alternate timeline.

[Sin]

To be honest I'd never thought of that, it makes as much sense as thinking otherwise and it's a cool theory. I'm always going to feel bad now when I watch Trunks first arrival, knowing the he's going to die and that an alternate Trunks is going to take his place without anyone ever knowing.

[Gonstead]

To be honest I'd never thought of that, it makes as much sense as thinking otherwise and it's a cool theory. I'm always going to feel bad now when I watch Trunks first arrival, knowing the he's going to die and that an alternate Trunks is going to take his place without anyone ever knowing.

You gotta also feel bad for Bulma. First Vegeta and now her only son. That's just harsh.

[AnimeMaakuo]

You gotta also feel bad for Bulma. First Vegeta and now her only son. That's just harsh.

Perhaps Bulma knew that another Trunks' would soon emerge in an alternate timeline.

[Bussani]

desirecampbell's time travel video is really good, but it's a little complicated for my tastes. I prefer to look at it along similar lines, but only split the timeline when a paradox can occur. Trunks returning to his timeline or to a timeline he hasn't created--so long as he doesn't arrive early and bump into himself--can't cause a paradox and thus doesn't result in a split. This results in something closer to the Daizenshuu timeline chart and leaves us with just four timelines.

[AnimeMaakuo]

I find it very easy to understand. In fact, he even goes so far as to draw it on a piece of paper.

[Bussani]

I get it. I just prefer the version that doesn't leave redundant timelines all over the place. Other than that they're pretty much the same thing.

[AnimeMaakuo]

My exact thoughts on this:

We know that Trunks expected to never leave his timeline. He thought that he'd change the past and he'd return to a different future. He (and thus Bulma) didn't know that new timelines would be created (they said it may be a possibility, but Trunks was very surprised when he found out that was the case). This all leads me to believe that there was no concious 'choice' about what timeline to jump to. He thought he was going to the same timeline for the first three jumps (to the past, back home, to the past again).

Also, seeing that Cell's time jump happens after Trunks does all his time jumping means that there has to have been a Trunks that did the time jumping and then got killed by Cell. Some believe that this Trunks and the Trunks we know are the same person and only that part of their life is different. They explain this by saying that Cell kills Trunks in the future and goes back in time, meets Trunks and thus Trunks can change his future. But this is flawed, because Cell can't go and meet the same Trunks because his jump creates a new timeline (because all jumps create new timelines).

[Bussani]

I'm not sure what that quote has to do with what we were saying.

We know that Trunks expected to never leave his timeline. He thought that he'd change the past and he'd return to a different future. He (and thus Bulma) didn't know that new timelines would be created (they said it may be a possibility, but Trunks was very surprised when he found out that was the case). This all leads me to believe that there was no concious 'choice' about what timeline to jump to. He thought he was going to the same timeline for the first three jumps (to the past, back home, to the past again).

Not sure I agree with this part. When Trunks goes, "Oh yeah! Time travel works like this!" Yamcha asks him why he even bothered time travelling in the first place if they knew it would never change their own timeline, and Trunks explained Bulma's reasons (she wanted there to be at least one happy timeline, she wanted to study the androids in the past to find a weakness they could use, and if all else failed, she wanted to bring Goku to their time to help them out). It seems like Bulma had a pretty good idea of how time travel worked, while Trunks somehow got confused or forgot.

Also, seeing that Cell's time jump happens after Trunks does all his timejumping means that there has to have been a Trunks that did the timejumping and then got killed by Cell. Some believe that this Trunks and the Trunks we know are the same person and only that part of their life is different. They exaplinan this by saying that Cell kills Trunks in the future and goes back in time, meets Trunks and thus Trunks can change his future. But this is flawed, because Cell can't go and meet the same Trunks because his jump creates a new timeline (because all jumps create new timelines).

The Daizenshuu says the same thing: the Trunks that Cell killed in his timeline is a Trunks who had been to the past once already, found a way to defeat the androids there, and used it in his time. Like I said, the theory I prefer is almost exactly the same as desirecampbell's; the only real difference is that it doesn't create a new timeline with every jump, so you don't end up with these multiple futures that Trunks never returns to.

[AnimeMaakuo]

It wouldn't make any sense to have only four timelines. The whole idea is that all timelines extend at the same rate, but at different positions. For example, if Trunks waits 8 months in his original timeline, 8 months pass from where he left in the newly created timeline.

[bleed0range]

So wait if all jumps create new timelines... doesn't this make the most sense?

Timeline 1: Androids appear and Goku is dead from the virus, androids take over the world. Cell incubates and in the future Trunks travels back in time to where this timeline starts but creates....

Timeline 2: Where Trunks has cured Goku of his heart virus and says he is going to go into the future and come back... but this timeline we never see the rest of... instead trunks jumps back to

Timeline 3: Same as above except Trunks has returned after 3 years. He and Goku defeat the androids and he returns to his timeline where they are defeated. Except he doesn't know of Cell and Cell appears and kills him. Cell goes back in time creating...

Timeline 4: This is the same as the timeline above, Trunks has returned after 3 years to help goku defeat the androids, but Cell appears unexpectedly and it is revealed he came in Trunks' time machine. This is the timeline we see in the manga/anime. Gohan has to defeat cell and Trunks returns to his timeline to defeat cell there.

Do I have this right?

[Bussani]

It wouldn't make any sense to have only four timelines. The whole idea is that all timelines extend at the same rate, but at different positions. For example, if Trunks waits 8 months in his original timeline, 8 months pass from where he left in the newly created timeline.

But even desirecampbell's version doesn't work that way. Trunks returns to his future for only eight months, but three years pass in the newly created timeline before he returns.