So, about Cell's regeneration

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So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Jord » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:43 pm

Cell says that at long as the nucleus in his head survives he can regenerate. However, earlier in the Cell Games Goku flat out blasted Cell's top half off, including his head and still Cell regenerates. Is this an error or did I miss something?

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Kaboom » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:39 pm

It pretty much is just a small logical hiccup on Toriyama's part. There's a million different fan-theories floating around to explain it, though. I'm recently partial to the idea that the cell clump was in Cell's head AFTER he regenerated, but it wasn't necessarily located there before. It could have been in his midsection originally, or something.
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by matt0044 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:42 pm

Personally it would've been better if Goku blasted a great chunk of Cell save for his head. Would've been cool to see him regenerate from that.

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:52 pm

I have always like this theory, BTW it's not mine:
Cell regenerates "like Piccolo does" because he has Piccolo's DNA. However, Cell's anatomy differs from a Namekian. Cell may not have the same type of brain most humanoids do. Instead his brain functions have been packed into a tiny core that is in the middle of his head, probably in a shielded pouch that provides extra protection. That core serves as Cell's nerve center, it's probably where all of his cognitive functions, memory, involuntary functions, emotions, calculations, etc are all processed.

I think that one cluster of cells that Cell called his "core" is basically one tiny organ that has all the functionality of an entire brain, including all the glands and different lobes, etc. So, yeah. As long as that thing survives, Cell's "brain" survives, and he can keep regenerating.

Why did he regenerate when Goku blew away the upper half of his body?

Well, even though that part of him was destroyed, there was a ton of biomass remaining. Cell's pelvis and legs were still there. It's possible Cell's entire body is composed of something like stem cells, where the building blocks to generate any part of Cell's entire body is stored in each strand of DNA. It's possible when that much biomass is remaining from Cell's body, that it can regenerate itself without the core, because it will rebuild his entire body before it runs out of energy.
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:25 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:Why did he regenerate when Goku blew away the upper half of his body?

Well, even though that part of him was destroyed, there was a ton of biomass remaining. Cell's pelvis and legs were still there. It's possible Cell's entire body is composed of something like stem cells, where the building blocks to generate any part of Cell's entire body is stored in each strand of DNA. It's possible when that much biomass is remaining from Cell's body, that it can regenerate itself without the core, because it will rebuild his entire body before it runs out of energy.
Really like this theory. I'm gonna stick with this. :thumbup:
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by freezamite » Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:58 pm

It could be a way to explain it, but I think it contradicts the manga in the fact that none of the warriors Cell was made of could do anything like this.
Toriyama simply forgot that Cell did what he did when in the Bu saga Piccolo explained the limits of his regeneration capabilities.

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Pantalones » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:28 pm

I always figured Cell's super-regeneration was a combination of Piccolo's regeneration and Freeza's "survive damn near any injury" ability. Possibly with some extra buggy weirdness mixed in from the various insects Cell gets some of his extra DNA from.

As for the "nucleus" being in his head, I just figured it moved. I mean, Cell's anatomy is weird as it is (storing whole androids inside him somewhere that can be barfed up at any time if he gets hit too hard? retractable tail used for eating? bug+lizard+plant-slugs-or-whatever-Nameks-are+etc. features in one body?), so organs being able to relocate to make regeneration possible wouldn't be much weirder.

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Gonstead » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:31 pm

I personally just go with the Dub explanation.

"It's all in here *points to head* every cell has a life of it's own. I can't die it is impossible! Even if I self-destruct I will always come back!"
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Bussani » Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:47 am

freezamite wrote:It could be a way to explain it, but I think it contradicts the manga in the fact that none of the warriors Cell was made of could do anything like this.
Toriyama simply forgot that Cell did what he did when in the Bu saga Piccolo explained the limits of his regeneration capabilities.
It's only a contradiction if the believe Cell's abilities can't surpass those of the beings he got them from, which I don't think is the case. Often the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. As an example, if you breed a lion and a tiger together, you can get an offspring that is bigger than either a lion or a tiger would grow to.
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Mystic Gohan » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:03 am

Anime says that as long as he has one part of him remaining, he can regenerate. That's what I go by.

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Bussani » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:16 am

Mystic Gohan wrote:Anime says that as long as he has one part of him remaining, he can regenerate. That's what I go by.
I think that was only the dub, wasn't it? ...But it would have made more sense, frankly.
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Mystic Gohan » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:34 am

Yeah it was the dub, but it makes sense to me, and seeing as the manga contradicts itself, I thought, hey why not? Funimation got something right.

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by penguintruth » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:08 am

As long as he AT LEAST has that one part left he can regenerate. He didn't have that part at the moment, but he had a lot of the rest of himself.
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by freezamite » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:16 pm

Bussani wrote:
freezamite wrote:It could be a way to explain it, but I think it contradicts the manga in the fact that none of the warriors Cell was made of could do anything like this.
Toriyama simply forgot that Cell did what he did when in the Bu saga Piccolo explained the limits of his regeneration capabilities.
It's only a contradiction if the believe Cell's abilities can't surpass those of the beings he got them from, which I don't think is the case. Often the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. As an example, if you breed a lion and a tiger together, you can get an offspring that is bigger than either a lion or a tiger would grow to.
Hahah well, it's a good point for your part, but in the manga this is a contradiction not because Cell regenerated (which could be explained as you did if nothing else happened), but because of the explanation it was given. If this was some sort of exceptional Cell capability, then why the hell did Piccolo, Krilin or Vegeta act like they knew what was happening? I could understand that reaction from Krilin or Vegeta (they didn't know the limits of a namekian so it's logic that they assumed Cell's comeback even if for a mistaken reason), but Piccolo? He should be the first to shout "Hell Yeah! Cell is fucking dead because Namekians like me can't regenerate our heads!".
Toriyama made Cell as a combination of the strongest warriors of the manga, and gave him the best of the best of everyone that composed it (strength from Freezer, psychic powers from Freezer or Cold, high sayan class zenkays from Vegeta, ki control at the level of Goku and regeneration at Piccolo levels) once completed.

In that precise scene, the contradiction comes more from Piccolo or the others than the fact that Cell could regenerate. Even Cell, now that I remember well, explains that he regenerated thanks to Piccolo's cells. The only extra trick that Cell had of its own was that central cell of him that allowed some sort of Bu-like regeneration.

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Mattie Rose » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:22 pm

Gonstead wrote:I personally just go with the Dub explanation.

"It's all in here *points to head* every cell has a life of it's own. I can't die it is impossible! Even if I self-destruct I will always come back!"
Yeah, it was one of the few times the dub actually fixed a plot hole.

I always preferred the theory that Cell could move his nucleus. Thus shifting it to avoid Gokuu's Kamehameha.

Though I have to say, with the amount of times people have brought this up it seems like a fairly well known plothole. I'm a little surprised it has never been addressed in one of the many guidebooks they get in Japan.

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Bussani » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:48 am

freezamite wrote:Hahah well, it's a good point for your part, but in the manga this is a contradiction not because Cell regenerated (which could be explained as you did if nothing else happened), but because of the explanation it was given. If this was some sort of exceptional Cell capability, then why the hell did Piccolo, Krilin or Vegeta act like they knew what was happening? I could understand that reaction from Krilin or Vegeta (they didn't know the limits of a namekian so it's logic that they assumed Cell's comeback even if for a mistaken reason), but Piccolo? He should be the first to shout "Hell Yeah! Cell is fucking dead because Namekians like me can't regenerate our heads!".
I think they make it pretty clear that they knew Cell wasn't defeated because he was still giving off a large ki.
Toriyama made Cell as a combination of the strongest warriors of the manga, and gave him the best of the best of everyone that composed it (strength from Freezer, psychic powers from Freezer or Cold, high sayan class zenkays from Vegeta, ki control at the level of Goku and regeneration at Piccolo levels) once completed.
It feels like you're deciding what Toriyama did and then saying he contradicted himself when the story doesn't match that. Cell's regeneration seems to be better than a normal Namekian's, and I don't see a problem with that.
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by freezamite » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:10 am

Bussani wrote: I think they make it pretty clear that they knew Cell wasn't defeated because he was still giving off a large ki.
Well, this was one reason but the explanation beyond that regeneration and why they wasn't surprised at all is because of Piccolo. When Cell came back from the explosion they also felt his Ki, but they were all surprised because they didn't know what happened and why could Cell be alive after that.

If that regeneration of Cell we are talking about was something planned as "never seen in the manga", they would be all like "wow incredible! how come he is still alive when he has no head and Piccolo can't regenerate without it?!"
It makes no sense for them to be like "Oh well, it's nothing special that cell can regenerate" if this is something Cell-exclusive like the bu-like regeneration it has afterwards.

Now go to that scene on the manga, Goku says: "I didn't remember that you can regenerate"
And Cells responds: "Yes, like Piccolo..."
This is from the spanish translation of the manga, but I doubt they had put "Piccolo" if in the original Cell really said "it's something that I can do because of my bug-like cells that have independent brains through my whole body".
Another facts to prove that is that Cell always said he could regenerate like piccolo. He said it when he fought against #16, then against Vegeta and now in front of Goku and its magical upper-body regeneration. I insist, like Piccolo. Not better, not worse.
Bussani wrote: It feels like you're deciding what Toriyama did and then saying he contradicted himself when the story doesn't match that. Cell's regeneration seems to be better than a normal Namekian's, and I don't see a problem with that.
Nope, but if Toriyama never says anything on the manga that makes me think Cells capabilities are beyond the ones he borrows his cells from, and Cell is always saying he can regenerate like Piccolo, it's obvious what Toriyama thought about that.
The only regeneration that was clearly not like Piccolo had a completely different explanation behind.

It's a bit weird that you are accusing me to do something you are doing constantly. I mean, Cell says "like Piccolo" tons of times, nobody and nowhere it's said that it could be better than that, and the only time it happens to be something different it was explained in detail by Cell and it can't be applied to that scene no matter how you look at it. But you still assume that Toriyama did this on purpose and then drawed it all in a way that the whole scene makes no sense. Sorry, but I disagree completely with your interpretation.

Even if Toriyama really thought about it (which we can't possibly know sine we can't read his mind) what matters is what is drawn on the manga, and Cell said "yes, like Piccolo"and the others acted as if they knew this was the reason.

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by Gokuden » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:45 pm

They should have all ganged up on Cell when Goku blasted him, and made sure no piece of him survived, instead of just opening their jaws and standing there like geniuses.
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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by freezamite » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:55 pm

Gokuden wrote:They should have all ganged up on Cell when Goku blasted him, and made sure no piece of him survived, instead of just opening their jaws and standing there like geniuses.
Well, they respected the rules of the match. It's like when Goku gives Cell a senzu bean to help him regain his strength... XD

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Re: So, about Cell's regeneration

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:56 pm

I refer you guys to my first post toward the top. It's probably the best explanation for this inconsistency.
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