Songs That Sound Real Good with Changed Pitch?

[Fionordequester]

What got me started with experimenting with this was listening to FUNI dub clips like when Dende refused to heal Vegeta, or various scenes with Piccolo begging for Super Buu to give them more time for Gotenk's to train, and noticing that Team Faulconer would occasionally change the pitch of their songs, with the new versions of the songs often sounding really good. I would simply turn pee green with envy and wish that I could listen to these changed versions without the vocals...and then I discovered Audacity's "Change Pitch" option...

And so, here are the fruits of my experimentations!

1) Vegeta's Death Theme (Pitched up to F): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IrFdqhDq78

In my opinion, this is better and definitely sadder than the original song in every way (and it was already pretty sad), to the point where I wondered why this version wasn't used rather than the version we have now, ESPECIALLY since Team Faulconer actually DID play a brief snippet of this version in this scene here...

http://www.viddler.com/v/b96440a1

2) Vegeta's Final Atonement Theme (Pitched down to G): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grtVjPHCv1U

A much sadder, more depressing version of what is otherwise one of the most peaceful and relaxing songs in the Team Faulconer OST. This version of the song actually played in a few of the episodes involving Piccolo trying to get Super Buu not to kill them immediately. Where I remember this most prominently though, is when this plays as Piccolo is telling him about how Videl is Mark's daughter.

What I really love about it is that it's got this very despondent, hopeless feel to it. In fact, I wouldn't have minded it being used for either of the times that Vegeta died in this show, but, oh well.

3) Chi Chi Watches Gohan (Pitched up to A): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veFww7susA0

This is a really obscure song that only plays on two occasions that I can remember, once when Chi Chi was watching Gohan at the Cell Games (hence the title), and the second time being when Gohan was playing that baseball game with Sharpner and the others. This one is essentially an "evil" version of the original song, and what fascinated me about it was it's potential to be used as one of Azula's themes from "Avatar: The Last Airbender" (you see, I would still like to rescore that show one day with the Team Faulconer score...just gotta figure out how).

But other than that, probably nothing TOO interesting.

4) Chiatzu's Death Theme - Japanese OST (Pitched up to C): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOoIogRD604

What always bothered me about how this scene was handled was how unfitting the music seemed to be for this scene. Chris Psaro talked about how beautiful the music was when Chiatzu died in his Episode Comparisons, but when I actually looked at the scene myself, well...it just seemed like generic action music to me, and certainly nowhere near sad enough for this scene...

So, I pitched it up to C, a key that I heard was one of the saddest key's there was, and viola! A song that is now much more fitting in my opinion. I'm just stunned that a simple change in key was all that would've been necessary to fix that though...it's things like this that makes me wonder if Kikuchi was intentionally trying to soften the intensity and fear of some of the scenes, as there are several instances where the score sounds either too kiddy, or emotionally detached from the scene...at least, in my opinion.

5) Scary Part of Long Flashback Theme (2nd Half Pitched down to C#/Db): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CDmH23FrzE

This version was, again, not used very much, being used only three times in fact, with two of those times being in the same scene. The first time was this version on it's own as Vegeta was trying to get Dende to heal him, the 2nd time was when Vegeta fainted after Dende refused, this time overlayed with Hell's Bells, and the 3rd time was when Gohan was having a flashback about his anger towards Frieza while talking to Cell.

Fairly self-explanatory I believe. Pretty scary, wish it had been used more often (like Spopovitch snapping his head back in place for instance).

6) Ginyu Force Theme (Pitched down to...something): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDUu82mUqbo

Holy cow, the Team Faulconer Ginyu Force theme...AND IT ACTUALLY FITS THE CHARACTERS?! Yeah, I never really liked this theme except for it's second half (which played after Goku blasted Jeice and Burter with a kiai shout), but, hey, this version sounds pretty epic, doesn't it?! Of course, this was done by someone else, so that's why I don't know the key, but...oh well!

Anyways, those are my offerings...does anyone else have songs to contribute?

[JulieYBM]

I once lowered the Yamcha insert theme. It was pretty weird. O.o

[cRookie_Monster]

The exact final key of a track was never such a big deal to me. E, F or Eb. Same difference. Pitching something too far tends to reduce quality too much, but does definitely change the character.

The main reason we would shift keys of a track was for transition's sake. If two tracks were in unrelated keys, one could be transposed to something that works better. That's one of the big challenges with wall to wall music, making all the keys work. This track is basically one big modulation from whatever was before it to wherever it was going http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Bv07UyVuM I forgot what the surrounding tracks\keys were, I just remember I had two big goals. 1) match the mood 2) get to the new key in 36 seconds! Actually, 36 seconds is pretty luxurious. I've had to do some pretty wacky modulations...pitch shifting something makes it easier..but I hate what it does to the sound quality, especially back in the day.

On the flip side sometimes the ideal key might be one thing, but you *write* the music in a specific key taking account of what music comes before and what comes after. Then when it's rendered, you rarely go back and rerender it, though it does happen.

Btw, when just talking about the "pre shifted" key of the music, the key can make a huge difference in sound depending on the instrument. For instance writing in a key that uses open notes helps string players, or putting the key in Bb or F is usually good for live brass\wood wind players since they have natural harmonics there.

[Fionordequester]

The exact final key of a track was never such a big deal to me. E, F or Eb. Same difference. Pitching something too far tends to reduce quality too much, but does definitely change the character.

Shouldn't it though? For me, I definitely hear a huge difference between this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcqcOOFe894

...and this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IrFdqhDq78

I mean, Vegeta's Death Theme as it is, conveys a feeling of great pain and loss, but also of mourning. The pitched up version only conveys the loss, but it conveys it with much more intensity, like, instead of just losing a loved one, as the former version might have suggested, this version suggests that this person has just lost EVERYTHING, and is the midst of ultimate despair. I mean, there probably isn't a big change in sound if it's only one key, but most of the ones I've changed have been pitched up or down 3-5 keys.

The main reason we would shift keys of a track was for transition's sake. If two tracks were in unrelated keys, one could be transposed to something that works better. That's one of the big challenges with wall to wall music, making all the keys work. This track is basically one big modulation from whatever was before it to wherever it was going http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39Bv07UyVuM I forgot what the surrounding tracks\keys were, I just remember I had two big goals. 1) match the mood 2) get to the new key in 36 seconds! Actually, 36 seconds is pretty luxurious. I've had to do some pretty wacky modulations...pitch shifting something makes it easier..but I hate what it does to the sound quality, especially back in the day.

So you were worried about the quality coming out something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORuGiSbjKkQ

On the flip side sometimes the ideal key might be one thing, but you *write* the music in a specific key taking account of what music comes before and what comes after. Then when it's rendered, you rarely go back and rerender it, though it does happen.

Hmm...while I can appreciate that, I also dislike it when a lot of the music sounds too similar, and everything just devolves into this big blob of music, like what happened with the Shuki Levin/Ron Wasserman score. Of course, your guys's dub definitely had the OPPOSITE problem at certain points, so I guess I know what you mean. Moderation, I guess, is the key here.

Btw, when just talking about the "pre shifted" key of the music, the key can make a huge difference in sound depending on the instrument. For instance writing in a key that uses open notes helps string players, or putting the key in Bb or F is usually good for live brass\wood wind players since they have natural harmonics there.

Really? How fascinating. What keys use open notes?

[cRookie_Monster]

It sounds like you moved the sadness theme by a whole step, which can alter the sound a little, but not much imho.

Trying to match starting points:
http://youtu.be/6IrFdqhDq78?t=20s
http://youtu.be/EcqcOOFe894?t=3s
For me the big difference between these two versions is audio quality and volume. Pitch is a factor but not as much to my ears.

To me the frequency you choose as your key center really has little to do with mood, except for when something sounds "deep" or "high" and our feel for that kind of thing is pretty coarse. What really establishes mood is the the type of scales or chords you use(major vs minor for instance), what octave you play in (*very* course pitch changes), tempo, instrumentation, rhythm, etc.

I do agree that hearing say 3 songs in a row in the same key can get a little tiring on the ear, even if they are completely different in mood. I've actually transposed music on rare occasion simply to avoid ear fatigue. I think that's more of a subconscious thing though.
Both these are in E:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z-hEyVQDRA
http://youtu.be/uoqFH-i7jYY?t=3s
Similarities? not much.

Anyway, the point was not to put things in the same key, but to make the transitions work. That might mean put things in *related keys*. IE A minor going to E minor is less jarring than A minor to Eb minor. But maybe the scene needs something jarring...so then maybe you prefer the unrelated keys. Either way, the change might only be 1/2 step to get to a better key. Note the two keys are like 5 notes (or 6 or 7 semitones) apart so they aren't close pitch wise...though really that depends on voicings chosen in the arrangement itself more than the key chosen. 7 semitones\half-steps apart is as close as you get to being the same key relationship-wise without being in the same key.

The overall point I was trying to make is that the occasional pitch shift was done to make the music flow better not to alter the sound or even put things in the exact same key all the time.

Open notes depend on how the instrument is tuned. Basically you can aim for keys that include the open notes on the instrument. Or you can employ tricks guitar players use, like tuning differently, using a capo, or buying a guitar with extra strings for increased range.

Standard tunings:
Guitar
EADGBE
E minor is the #1 key for open notes on a standard guitar tuning. The guitar played open is actually an Em11 chord. Metallica's "Nothing Else Matters" starts with all open notes! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74bxoQd7vaE

Violin
GDAE
G major and D major(and minor) are hugely common for violin. A minor and E minor are also good.

Viola & Cello (same notes different octaves)
CGDA
C major and G major(and minor) would be winners for these two instruments, as well as A minor or D minor.

Bass (guitar or vile)
EADG
Same as guitar really

As for the quality thing. When we used to pitch shift back in 1999/2000, and try to preserve tempo, we used to get this warbly sound in the new version. You could probably find an example if you search through the CDs....some of them got included with the tracks. Now-a-days it's still risky but not as bad.